Microsoft says Hardcore gamers have been wrong for 10 years

[SpaceMedarotterX]

http://www.gamerzines.com/xbox-360/news/hardcore-gamers-wrong-10-years.html

"I have one thing to say to the hardcore gamer who says Kinect has nothing for them," said Toulouse while discussing concerns about Kinect on Major Nelson's latest podcast. "Those games will have achievements, so don't tell me you're not going to play at least some of them, you hardcore gamers out there. I know you will."

But Toulouse later suggested that the hardcore audience, who largely expect Kinect to underperform and under deliver when it launches in November, had been "wrong a lot" about market trends and successes "for the past ten years",

"Let's go back and look at the track record of the hardcore gamer," he continued.

"Shipping a console with an Ethernet port? Oh, it'll never succeed. Paying for multiplayer? Oh no, that's not good. I don't like avatars; I won't buy anything that goes to my avatar. The Wii... I mean no offence hardcore gamers, you've kinda been wrong a lot for the past ten years.

Oh hey so lets count up the way that insults us

1.That Hardcore gamers will buy a projected $150 add-on that has no games that currently appeal to them (scept maybe Fable 3 depending on your enjoyment of said series)because it has Achievments? as the wise profit Mike Mizian once said "Really?"
2.That OPINIONS like "I don't like Avatars" have been proven wrong because people do like them.

2 so far but I'm sure someone can disect it more

 

[UberNoodle]

What he says is fair enough and it is no less stubborn than writing something off without trying it or giving it a go. Yes, hardcore gamers have made mistakes. Last I checked, gamers are human beings and thus fully capable of doing such things. Also, last time I checked, countering an argument did not constitute an insult. I think he was being as sassy and arrogant as a large percentage of forum posting hardcores tend to be. The amount of extremism in such places far outdoes the possible snappiness of this man's rebuttle. And any quick scan of profiles will show that hardcores DO go pretty far (low?) to up their Gamerscores. I am sure he's not saying that they would buy Kinect SOLELY for the acheivements. I assume the man isn't an idiot. However, those gamers might have other reasons to buy into it, for themselves or for others, and I am sure they'll partake in it. They might even have fun, despite themselves.

 

[DigitalSushi]

Hardcore gamers have been wrong though.

Anyone actually offended by that means that Microsoft have that statement dead to rights, or bang on the money, if you weren't offended you'd be ignoring that statement.

And anyway, Child of Eden;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EfjJeRzQ5M

I'm a Hardcore gamer and that casual kinnect game feels me with joy, happyness and love.

GROUP HUG!

 

[JeanLuc761]

I don't see much of a problem here. Gamers as a demographic (at least based upon observing the internet communities for a while) seem to be rather resistant to change, so we'll almost always scoff at the next innovation. Major Nelson is dead-right that gamers have been wrong in the past, and I'm certain we'll be wrong in the future.

The trick here is that we need to learn from the past and figure out how to pick our battles. Draconian DRM is a good battle; fighting against Kinect isn't.

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

I concede that achievement whores will no doubt play Kinect games just for achievements.

And I bought something for my avatar...I bought a Sazh t-shirt. Because Sazh is awesome.

But who the fuck COMPLAINED about Ethernet ports?

 

[UberNoodle]

Where were these hardcore gamers that supposedly claimed consoles with ethernet ports wouldn't catch on? I sure as hell never heard anyone say that.

Well then they mustn't exist!

Sorry. Anyway.

I do remember a lot of scepticism from the gaming crowd about online consoles, just as there was for disc based media and even 3D!

 

[Woodsey]

"I have one thing to say to the hardcore gamer who says Kinect has nothing for them," said Toulouse while discussing concerns about Kinect on Major Nelson's latest podcast. "Those games will have achievements, so don't tell me you're not going to play at least some of them, you hardcore gamers out there. I know you will."

Clutching at straws. Thin, tiny straws. Promise interesting games you moron.

No one wants it because there's no games for it to appeal to us; the Wii was a success because of casual/first-time gamers. I can't count the amount of people like myself that bought a Wii and then had it collect dust for months on end.

I'll be happy when this whole motion control fad is over with.

 

[Toriver]

What he says is fair enough and it is no less stubborn than writing something off without trying it or giving it a go. Yes, hardcore gamers have made mistakes. Last I checked, gamers are human beings and thus fully capable of doing such things. Also, last time I checked, countering an argument did not constitute an insult. I think he was being as sassy and arrogant as a large percentage of forum posting hardcores tend to be. The amount of extremism in such places far outdoes the possible snappiness of this man's rebuttle.

QFT. Toulouse's reasoning is quite flimsy on the whole achievement thing, but that doesn't mean he's completely wrong. Right now most of the games are made for the casual audience, yes, but that doesn't mean more "hardcore" games for it won't be made. It may even take a while. 4-5 years down the road, Nintendo is finally opening up the "hardcore" valve and providing such gamers with games they will want to play on the Wii more than once in a blue moon. If given time, "hardcore" gamers may indeed be mistaken about Kinect as well. And knowing the regular 360 fanbase and list of 3rd-party developer supporters, we probably won't have to wait as long for "hardcore" games on Kinect than we had to wait for them on the Wii.

 

[Andronicus]

Who cares? If you're going to consider yourself a "hardcore gamer", then you're going to have opinions about everything to do with games, whether they be good or bad, and chances are, most of them are wrong. Developers and companies like Microsoft can do what they please. I mean, it's not as if they're going to run their business based on what some guy who sits on his computer all day shooting Nazi zombies says or thinks. If they want to alienate an entire culture of gamers, that's their problem. There are plenty of other devs who cater to your specific needs.

If you get insulted by this, harden up.

 

[Keava]

Hardcore gamers don't use consoles anyway, so the whole statement is wrong from the very start anyway.
/flamesuit-on

Also, i think we already had plenty of 'hardcore gamer' discussions, obviously the developers and publishers have something else on mind than actual gamers when using word 'hardcore' so whats the problem? Its not like it affects you in any way now, does it?

 

[Daedalus1942]

http://www.gamerzines.com/xbox-360/news/hardcore-gamers-wrong-10-years.html

"I have one thing to say to the hardcore gamer who says Kinect has nothing for them," said Toulouse while discussing concerns about Kinect on Major Nelson's latest podcast. "Those games will have achievements, so don't tell me you're not going to play at least some of them, you hardcore gamers out there. I know you will."

But Toulouse later suggested that the hardcore audience, who largely expect Kinect to underperform and under deliver when it launches in November, had been "wrong a lot" about market trends and successes "for the past ten years",

"Let's go back and look at the track record of the hardcore gamer," he continued.

"Shipping a console with an Ethernet port? Oh, it'll never succeed. Paying for multiplayer? Oh no, that's not good. I don't like avatars; I won't buy anything that goes to my avatar. The Wii... I mean no offence hardcore gamers, you've kinda been wrong a lot for the past ten years.

Oh hey so lets count up the way that insults us

1.That Hardcore gamers will buy a projected $150 add-on that has no games that currently appeal to them (scept maybe Fable 3 depending on your enjoyment of said series)because it has Achievments? as the wise profit Mike Mizian once said "Really?"
2.That OPINIONS like "I don't like Avatars" have been proven wrong because people do like them.

2 so far but I'm sure someone can disect it more

Do microsoft go out of their way to piss us off in whatever way possible?
The RROD's, the new slim console that destroys discs utterly and now them actually believing we will give a shit about Kinect and not just disregard it as them whoring themselves out to jump on the Wii Success bandwagon?

 

[SextusMaximus]

I liked the article, I found it satisfactory and agreed with most statements said. Your statements, however, I don't agree with.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Still though, on a slightly subjective note, that bit where they say that the only reason the "hardcore" will play these games is because of achievements is just depressing.

Doesn't exactly project confidence in the quality of the products, does it?

 

[Axolotl]

Of course the hardcore gamers are wrong. Any true businessman knows that in the world of technology copying a rivas product from 4 years ago and selling at a greater price is a sure-frire strategy for success!

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

No, they're wrong. I'm not buying a Kinect for achievements. What retard would do that?

 

[mikecoulter]

Haha, what does he know really? I'm fairly certain people who buy things for their avatars aren't really hardcore. One reason I bought my PS3 and began relying more on Steam was to get away from all that rubbish.