Mildly disappointed by the Kickstarter phenomenon.

[Zhukov]

Remember back when the video game kickstarter craze took off?

Finally, they'd found a way to bypass those mean, money-grubbing, creativity-hating, Scrooge McDuck publishers. Rather than go begging to the fat cat money counters, developers would secure their precious lucre directly from the blessed consumer. Thus they would be free to pursue their dreams and bring forth their ideas without constraint or oversight. A golden renaissance of unbridled creativity would come to the medium as bright eyed developers danced across green fields, arm-in-arm with generous crowdfunding gamers.

Now, I'll admit, I was a bit skeptical. I immediately began picturing the reaction when one of these projects dies in the arse for whatever reason and a whole bunch of people realise that they've thrown their money down the gurgler. However, overall I thought the whole idea had a lot of promise and I looked forward to seeing what came out of it.

Then I started seeing the actual games being proposed.

Hey, like the old Fallout games? Well, they can't do that because of IP rights, but have a sequel to the game that they made before issues over IP rights forced them to make Fallout.

Like the old XCOM games? Here, have Xenonauts, a blatant XCOM rip off.

Like Dungeon Keeper? Here, have a clone. (Which is shit, from what I hear.)

Remember Planescape Torment? Have a sequel!

Oh hey, Project Eternity. A new IP that... oh, it's a fantasy RPG. Way to blow my mind there Obsidian. What's next? A modern shooter? Perhaps a zombie apocalypse ga...?

Oh look, three zombie apocalypse games. Joy.

...

This is not quite what I was hoping for. It seems that most developers, rather than using this as an opportunity to take some risks and try new things, have elected to just remake that one old game that they liked or, failing that, make a sequel.

Isn't this what people criticize about the big budget, mainstream AAA industry? Constant recycling of IP and pumping out sequels to everything in sight, regardless of whether or not the original called for it.

Oh, and I'm part of the problem of course. The only Kickstarter I've chucked money at is Dreamfall: Chapters, a sequel. (Although it's a sequel to a series with an incomplete story, so that makes it totally okay!)

...

Tell ya what, let's try to end this on a positive note. Tell me about the promising, interesting and generally amazing projects you're looking forward to that aren't just some old game getting the dust blown off. Perhaps I'll find something to restore my faith in the Church of Kickstarter.

 

[sanquin]

I was hoping for kickstarter to attract more indie developers that needed a larger budget for new idea's for games. Well, there are plenty of those games too on kickstarter. But the most 'vocal' kind are the sequels, copies and larger companies wanting your money in advance to make a game, even though they already have enough money to work with. (It's like pre-ordering.)

Oh well, I never kickstarted because I'd rather wait for a game to actually come out before throwing my money at it.

 

[hazabaza1]

Well there was always FTL. That's fun.

There's Risk of Rain [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/riskofrain/risk-of-rain] a "randomly generated action platformer with roguelike elements" according to their statements. Seen some gameplay, looks pretty fun.
A Hat in Time [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jonaskaerlev/a-hat-in-time-3d-collect-a-thon-platformer] is an oldschool 3D collecty-platformer. Seems to be bringing back a lot of the innocence and colour that we've been missing in recent years.

The Ouya is of course a product of kickstarter and it's... well it's hard to deny it's something different.

Also Frontiers [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/railboy/frontiers-explore-discover-survive?ref=category] a game focusing more on survival and exploration so that's different.

Other stuff that I can't be bothered to link is the two Shadowrun games (I think), the Homestuck Adventure game (probably only good for fans of the series but hey, it's something), Star Citizen, Amikrog, Republique, Clang, Shovel Knight, Among the Sleep, Chasm, Project Giana...
the list goes on.

The main problem is websites only featuring the big names because those are the only ones guarenteed to get at least some views. Indie games don't get as much coverage, and ones that don't exist yet get even less.

 

[Karoshi]

Frozen Slate looks [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1683973133/frozen-state?ref=category] very interesting. It's a survival RPG set in Siberia with top down view. Already has rudimentary engine, lots of atomspheric art and the concept looks very fleshed out. I get the feeling that the developers know what they are talking about.

Of course, there is a big change that this will be a bugged, flawed mess of a game, but at least it's ambitious. If you are a fan of Metro 2033 or the old Fallout titles you might wanna check it out.

 

[Jandau]

So, let me see if I got this straight? You're equating the stagnation of the mainstream industry with a few devs reviving (sub-)genres that have been dead for years? Really?

Yes, we're getting a new Torment. And you know how that is different from the deluge of Modern Military FPS games? WE'VE ONLY HAD ONE TORMENT! Seriously, the Kickstarter phenomenon, as you call it, has brought out an entire segment of the gaming population who want more entries in genres that have been left by the wayside in the rush to make the next CoD or whatever.

Also, if you want a good reason why a lot of the big KS projects are sequels or reboots of old games instead of new IPs in those genres, then consider that these devs need to get people to give them money. The best way to get the money for the first project is to make it something people already want. First you're a bunch of guys who want to make Wasteland 2 and people give you money because they want a new Wasteland. Next time, you're the team who made that awesome Wasteland 2, of course you can have our money for your new and unknown IP.

 

[Lilani]

I think it's no surprise that the system would attract money-grabs and rip-offs. If a way of making money exists, then people will exploit it. But, as people are listing and will continue to list great examples will demonstrate, that doesn't mean there aren't some great ideas in there. No system is perfect, and if you were expecting Kickstarter to be and always remain an ideal utopia of diamonds in the rough waiting to be polished, then I'm afraid you may have set your hopes a little too high.

 

[Pink Gregory]

There's interesting stuff still coming through; it's just not the ones you hear about.

Also, if you want a good reason why a lot of the big KS projects are sequels or reboots of old games instead of new IPs in those genres, then consider that these devs need to get people to give them money. The best way to get the money for the first project is to make it something people already want. First you're a bunch of guys who want to make Wasteland 2 and people give you money because they want a new Wasteland. Next time, you're the team who made that awesome Wasteland 2, of course you can have our money for your new and unknown IP.

Also this. Even with something of a legacy, most people might not be convinced on a developer's ability just for having made a critically acclaimed title in a completely different environment ten or twenty years ago; and consequently if they can draw a lot of interest from that legacy and acquire the resources to work on fresh IP and ideas, then perhaps those unsure can be convinced. But y'have to crawl before y'can walk; the thing with flagrant risk-taking is that there's no job security in it, do you expect developers to do that for the sake of experimentation? And the other thing with flagrant risk taking is that you're going to have to scale back your ambitions if you want to get the game funded and made.

Also, I don't reckon there's any need to completely abandon ideas just because they've been done before. Are you suggesting that there shouldn't be any more fantasy RPGs because there's already Baldur's Gate?

There are plenty of ideas that can be expressed in familiar settings, it's a little presumptuous to assume that they won't be there from the broadest inferences possible.

Just seems a little like you're telling these developers to be experimental on demand while perhaps not fully considering the resources they need to do so and independent of the context. I'm sure they'd like to become the trendsetters, to not have to prove that people will buy something before putting it out there; but how else are the games going to get funded?

Also, you pledging for Dreamfall Chapters is hardly part of the problem. You're pledging money to develop a game that you want to play, made by developers you want to see more work from. That's how it's supposed to work, isn't it?

 

[Vegosiux]

For the most part, what Kickstarter is in terms of video games, it's basically a glorified pre-order platform at this point.

Which I am mildly disappointed about myself.

 

[Anthony Corrigan]

Shroud of the Avatar looks amazing

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/portalarium/shroud-of-the-avatar-forsaken-virtues-0
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well just because devs get a new source of funding doesn't mean a rift to new dimensions opens up for crazy new ideas, no it's still the same ideas just that they don't rely on bankers and possibly end up in the Limbo dev situation where they had to spend near all their income from this hugely successful game just to buy back their own work from investors.

And I think we will get plenty good out of this when it's finished properly, like Planetary Annihilation (RTS ground-combat across solar systems), Castle Story (voxel RTS), Stonehearth (apparently RPG like voxel RTS), FTL (as already mentioned and upcoming spin offs), Starfarer (2D space combat sim), Star Citizen, Broken Age...

 

[veloper]

Let's wait for a couple big projects to finish (or crash) first before calling a failure. The first bets are already placed, so nothing to do but wait.

There are some novel ideas on kickstarter. FTL is an original take on the roguelike genre and turned out to be entertaining. Massive Chalice has some novel concepts. Code Hero tries something that I've never seen done before.

It's too much to expect every game to be completely original, just because the traditional publishers are out of the picture. Some smaller genres getting a little extra attention could be considered an improvement already.

 

[The Eupho Guy_v1legacy]

For the most part, what Kickstarter is in terms of video games, it's basically a glorified pre-order platform at this point.

Which I am mildly disappointed about myself.

That's certainly true for the larger projects, like Project Eternity, Torment, Wasteland 2 et al, where their totals were never in doubt. But what about the smaller projects from untested teams or individuals wanting to make their dream game? While I've backed a couple of the big games (Eternity, Planetary Annihilation, Torment and Dreamfall Chapters), I've also backed a number of unknown games that only just made their targets, usually between $10k and $20k. Games like Enemy, Radio The Universe, Two Brothers, Timber & Stone, amongst others.

While I'm looking forward to playing the big games when they come out, I'm really looking forward to what the little guys have to offer, to see what dreams my pledge money helped create.

 

[BrotherRool]

The novel ideas are definitely in the small games. Investing a lot of money in fresh ideas is a)Ridiculously risky and b) Bad for the game.

Think of how many developers have talked about trying add X mechanic in a game and found it didn't really work and overtime the project morphed into something completely different. Kickstarter stops that process in it's tracks, because you need to commit to a mechanic before you've built and tested it.


As far as big games go, we'll see innovation if a normal Kickstarter project comes off and provides enough money in sales for the company to create their own game next time round. Obsidian for example are hoping Project Eternity will be self-sustaining once they've sold the first game. If that happens a company can start messing around and trying new things free of publishers and fans. And whats more, they have a safety net. If things go wrong they can kickstarter a safer game and try again.

So we're only going to see these things start to appear maybe 4 years down the road. The excitement isn't the Double Fine get to make Broken Age and Massive Chalice, the real end goal is BA and MC selling so well that Double Fine are completely free to make their own games.

But if you want innovation then the smaller projects involve much less risk and are a way for the one to five indie dev teams to get their dreams made whilst still having food to eat. And their are tons of games like that on Kickstarter. Look at Unrest [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/698883673/unrest-an-unconventional-rpg-set-in-ancient-india] for example, an RPG set in India with little combat focus and characters who can die and the story will continue. This is where the creativity is, where we only need to provide a handful of people with the tools they need to make games that weren't possible before. It can't come with providing funding to big 20 man teams

tl;dr, there's a lot of good reasons publishers behave the way they do. Kickstarters success will be in giving developers completely independent income sources, not directly from the games funded.

 

[Albino Boo]

Remember back when the video game kickstarter craze took off?

Finally, they'd found a way to bypass those mean, money-grubbing, creativity-hating, Scrooge McDuck publishers. Rather than go begging to the fat cat money counters, developers would secure their precious lucre directly from the blessed consumer. Thus they would be free to pursue their dreams and bring forth their ideas without constraint or oversight. A golden renaissance of unbridled creativity would come to the medium as bright eyed developers danced across green fields, arm-in-arm with generous crowdfunding gamers.

Now, I'll admit, I was a bit skeptical. I immediately began picturing the reaction when one of these projects dies in the arse for whatever reason and a whole bunch of people realise that they've thrown their money down the gurgler. However, overall I thought the whole idea had a lot of promise and I looked forward to seeing what came out of it.

Then I started seeing the actual games being proposed.

Hey, like the old Fallout games? Well, they can't do that because of IP rights, but have a sequel to the game that they made before issues over IP rights forced them to make Fallout.

Like the old XCOM games? Here, have Xenonauts, a blatant XCOM rip off.

Like Dungeon Keeper? Here, have a clone. (Which is shit, from what I hear.)

Remember Planescape Torment? Have a sequel!

Oh hey, Project Eternity. A new IP that... oh, it's a fantasy RPG. Way to blow my mind there Obsidian. What's next? A modern shooter? Perhaps a zombie apocalypse ga...?

Oh look, three zombie apocalypse games. Joy.

...

This is not quite what I was hoping for. It seems that most developers, rather than using this as an opportunity to take some risks and try new things, have elected to just remake that one old game that they liked or, failing that, make a sequel.

Isn't this what people criticize about the big budget, mainstream AAA industry? Constant recycling of IP and pumping out sequels to everything in sight, regardless of whether or not the original called for it.

Oh, and I'm part of the problem of course. The only Kickstarter I've chucked money at is Dreamfall: Chapters, a sequel. (Although it's a sequel to a series with an incomplete story, so that makes it totally okay!)

...

Tell ya what, let's try to end this on a positive note. Tell me about the promising, interesting and generally amazing projects you're looking forward to that aren't just some old game getting the dust blown off. Perhaps I'll find something to restore my faith in the Church of Kickstarter.

Part of the problem is that people forgot that the name developers are successful businessmen too. The way that they see Kickstarter is make a BBB game with the public taking the risk and they don't have to give a return on the money that was put up front. The net result is that they get richer. Most of the guys doing the big kickstarters are not some starving artist living in a garret but multimillionaires in their own right and they want to make a profit with the minimum amount of risk. That means producing the thing that sells right now or has nostalgia value to middle aged men who want to play games from their childhood.

In short, devs are just as much driven by the profit motive as publishers are so you end up with the same results.

 

[veloper]

Part of the problem is that people forgot that the name developers are successful businessmen too. The way that they see Kickstarter is make a BBB game with the public taking the risk and they don't have to give a return on the money that was put up front. The net result is that they get richer. Most of the guys doing the big kickstarters are not some starving artist living in a garret but multimillionaires in their own right and they want to make a profit with the minimum amount of risk.

That is true for "Lord British" and his MMORPG project and for a couple other big names perhaps, but the most part I believe the devs couldn't make their projects without some support.

 

[Jimmy T. Malice]

The only problem I have with Kickstarter is that the big investors won't actually see a return on their investment. A free copy of a game is fine when you're only donating £20, but for thousands that just won't cut it.

 

[2fish]

Well I did back Xenonauts so consider yourself warned of my bias if I have any? I don?t mind the better looking updates of IP that have died or been ignored as they won?t sell in AAA terms.
A new dungeon keeper could be fun. I mean how many years has it been since we had one?

I think most the new IP you see will come from established studios and maybe 5% (made up number because I am that awesome) of new ideas will make it through kickstarter as it is hard to sell new ideas. I think kickstarter will show that the ?dead? genres are viable as smaller budget games.

So while people are afraid to invest their money in an unproven group on an unproven idea they may at least open up a few new avenues and game studios.

No matter if kickstarter ends up being a major influence on gaming or not it has at least shown the desire for some of the ?dead? game genres.

I don?t expect the gaming scene to change quickly. We may not even see the major effects kickstarter has had for 5-10 years. At the worst kickstarter may have helped a few games get to talk to publishers as we have reestablished that there is a market out there.

 

[shrekfan246]

I think Jim Sterling's episode about coffee was right on the money; What people ask for, say they like, or brag about to put on an aura of 'higher' taste is vastly different from what they actually end up buying (not always, but admit it, you've bought some games that you wouldn't necessarily want to talk about before).

People complain about games that use the same old tired mechanics, but when everything under the sun has been done before, what ground is there left to cover? Why try to fix something that has been polished to such a degree that any change you could make would undoubtedly make it worse?

So then we have new IPs left to fall back on... well, if Psychonauts, Okami, Beyond Good & Evil, Grim Fandango, Eternal Darkness, and Shenmue are any indication, it doesn't matter how good, interesting, or unique a game's premise and/or execution might be.

There's a reason so many things use brand recognition, and it's not just limited to video games. But every time you feel like asking why some game is using the name of an IP when it could very well be its own thing? Remember that it took seven years and three different platforms for Okami to sell a million copies. Remember that Psychonauts was nothing more than a cult classic until it popped back up on the Humble Indie Bundle. Remember that Beyond Good & Evil sold so little that it's been almost a full decade and there still isn't any conclusion to the story (perhaps somewhat ironically because "consumers at the time were interested in established franchises and technologically impressive games").

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

well, let's be honest here, a LOT of these games are also trying to cater to niches that have been increasingly marginalized over the years due to the bloat of AAA development and the cutting out of middle-tier titles. For instance, one title coming out this month is Shadowrun Returns, which is of course made from the tabletop RPG of the same name. It's definitely a license that's a bit more obscure than most and since they wanted to capture the feel of the old console games that doesn't exactly get attention when trying to attract AAA development.

Project Eternity and Torment are also kind of in the same boat. The former is a throwback to classic Infinity Engine games like Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale and considering that a LOT of WRPGs need to have flash like Dragon Age, Mass Effect, The Witcher, Skyrim, etc it wouldn't be something that would go over well with a lot of publishers. Torment is also pretty much a sequel to a cult classic, but at the same time still obscure game that was a financial disappointment and it's a completely new setting building off a yet-to-be-released tabletop license. These ARE risks as they're going for more obscure markets that aren't as big and widespread as most titles. Furthermore, they ARE able to do things a little differently due to not having to deal with publishers and instead can just essentially do things at their own pace with no regard for deadlines except internally.

So I get the criticism, but even these guys need SOMETHING in order to garner attention. Everyone needs a safety net