Mildly disappointed by the Kickstarter phenomenon.

[Genocidicles]

You mean inexpensive XBLA titles are short? Wow. Never saw that coming.

I don't see why you're being so unnecessarily hostile, but whatever.

With publisher funding all they could make were cheap little XBLA titles. With Kickstarter they'll be able to make larger games.

 

[Something Amyss]

I don't see why you're being so unnecessarily hostile, but whatever.

I'm not. Stop inferring things.

And don't make excuses for their titles, either. Those concepts worked within their length, and that's what the fanboys all said in support anyway.

 

[Anthony Corrigan]

err no that's not how it works, they are legally required to provide the gifts that they promised and in everyone I have seen that includes a copy of the game. If they don't provide that they have breeched the contract and you can take them to court if they refuse to provide a refund

Kickstarter disagrees. That's why they have accountability warnings.

Incidentally, I'm not sure you understand breach of contract from a backer's perspective.

No actually it doesnt

Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.

http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics

 

[Something Amyss]

err no that's not how it works, they are legally required to provide the gifts that they promised and in everyone I have seen that includes a copy of the game. If they don't provide that they have breeched the contract and you can take them to court if they refuse to provide a refund

Kickstarter disagrees. That's why they have accountability warnings.

Incidentally, I'm not sure you understand breach of contract from a backer's perspective.

No actually it doesnt

Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.

http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics

That still doesn't say what you need it to say. Hence the warnings in the same FAQ and everywhere else on the site.

 

[Jadak]

Like Dungeon Keeper? Here, have a clone. (Which is shit, from what I hear.)

War for the Overworld [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/subterraneangames/war-for-the-overworld], then yes it is shit, but also still a fair bit of time to go, so still got my hopes up.

But often what people want, as with the Dungeon Keep game mentioned, and the X-Com one, is simply to take the experiences of the past they loved and have them modernized to be relived, nothing more.

And in the end, that's all that Kickstarter is, a way for people to have what they want actually get made where the mainstream market may not be bothering to do so, or isn't doing it 'properly'.

Sure, more often than not 'what people' boils down to remakes and re-imaginings, but oh well. So long as something takes money to get made, it's still going to boil down to some variation of the demand for that something existing, at least kickstarter is a little more direct about it.

Personally, so long as things like Limit Theory [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joshparnell/limit-theory-an-infinite-procedural-space-game], Planetary Annihilation [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/659943965/planetary-annihilation-a-next-generation-rts], and Star Citizen [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen] continue to exist, I'm happy.

Sure, they're all largely improved attempts at things that have been done before, but they're the games I want in life, and if they turn out as imagined, that's all I need out of kickstarter.

 

[Anthony Corrigan]

You mean that KICKSTARTER is not liable? no they aren't, that KICKSTARTER cant provide a refund or take action? yep thats stated there too.

But that section is VERY specific, YOU can take legal action against a person who fails to fulfill the rewards they promises because that is a legally binding contract between YOU and the Developer. BTW if that section was found to be not correct and its not legally binding on the developers then Kickstarter themselves would be liable for deceptive or misleading conduct

 

[MrPhyntch]

Sure, more often than not 'what people' boils down to remakes and re-imaginings, but oh well. So long as something takes money to get made, it's still going to boil down to some variation of the demand for that something existing, at least kickstarter is a little more direct about it.

Personally, so long as things like Limit Theory [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joshparnell/limit-theory-an-infinite-procedural-space-game], Planetary Annihilation [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/659943965/planetary-annihilation-a-next-generation-rts], and Star Citizen [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen] continue to exist, I'm happy.

Sure, they're all largely improved attempts at things that have been done before, but they're the games I want in life, and if they turn out as imagined, that's all I need out of kickstarter.

Was going to say all this, but a refresh of the page before I posted proved me well and totally ninja'd. ESPECIALLY about Star Citizen and Planetary Annihilation. Add FTL to that list.

But remember, OP, that Kickstarter is designed to fund things that an audience wants. This is the entire point of it. There will be a lot of sequels and a lot of remakes. This is NOT a bad thing. Yes Fantasy RPGs are quite popular atm, but look at what's happening to them. Some of the bigger names in FRPGs are Dragon Age (see 2 especially), The Witcher, Skyrim, Kingdoms of Amalur, need I go on? They are all essentially the same thing; Action/Adventure games with RPG elements, not true RPG's, not in the same vein that Torment, Baldur's Gate, and the original Fallout games were. They were slow, methodical, and tactical. Some people vastly prefer them to the button-mashing combat of modern RPGs. I'm personally fond of both. But the fact remains that while they do have similar settings, they are vastly different games.

Kickstarter is doing a great job of pushing niche genres that haven't existed in any real form in years. Space Sim, classic RPG, Six-Degrees of Freedom (gravity-free FPSs), old-school RTS. These are all genres that are being greatly revived and modernized. Take Planetary Annihilation; an old-school RTS that allows for warfare on an intergalactic scale. We're talking about smashing planets into other planets as game mechanics. Not only is it an older genre that's being revived, but the modernization is actually something that really hasn't been done before. Maybe it will fail hard, it's hard to scale single-planet AND galaxy-wide warfare in the same game at the same time. But if it works? It will likely be the best RTS ever.

So while you haven't seen anything "new and exciting", that doesn't mean it's not there. Kickstarter is great for gaming and is great for games.

(For opinion validation and bias evaluation, I've only kickstarted two games (Planetary Annihilation and Starlight Inception), but have bought games like FTL that have been kickstarted and plan to buy games like Star Citizen and Project Eternity when available.)

 

[bug_of_war]

This is not quite what I was hoping for. It seems that most developers, rather than using this as an opportunity to take some risks and try new things, have elected to just remake that one old game that they liked or, failing that, make a sequel.

Isn't this what people criticize about the big budget, mainstream AAA industry? Constant recycling of IP and pumping out sequels to everything in sight, regardless of whether or not the original called for it.

Oh, and I'm part of the problem of course. The only Kickstarter I've chucked money at is Dreamfall: Chapters, a sequel. (Although it's a sequel to a series with an incomplete story, so that makes it totally okay!)

...

Tell ya what, let's try to end this on a positive note. Tell me about the promising, interesting and generally amazing projects you're looking forward to that aren't just some old game getting the dust blown off. Perhaps I'll find something to restore my faith in the Church of Kickstarter.

First off, it's the same reason as to why most indie games suck, it's just most indie devs don't actually have a great idea and just wanna make simple games. Secondly, like you said, people throw money at them so why the hell would they mix things up when they're already getting paid. It comes from the mentality, "If it aint broke, don't fix it".

Projects I'm looking forward to? Honestly, none. At least, none that come from kickstarter or any of that stuff.

 

[Gormech]

There needs to be a game where you can create a monster/robot that goes out into a survival scenario, kills another player, eats/assimilates that character, and forces that dead player to watch for a minimum amount of time what you do. Kinda like a punishment for dying and a little bit of extra victory for the winner. Start up small groups of hunters and some kind of supply rationing system and game on.

 

[Pyrokinesis]

It is a little sad looking at it all, the nail in the coffin for me is Planetary Annihilation charging $90 for an alpha (literally $30 of that is JUST alpha access) then using the excuse of "well its kickstarter fairness" instead of making pre-orders have nothing special just alpha/beta access and giving all the special amenities to the high priced backers. Its clearly become a haven for people who want to "go big or go home" and soon enough one of them is gona explode. Hell, broken age is already said it needs more money than the large amount it raised because it reached farther than its grasp. The problem isnt "money grubbing content destroying publishers (cough EA,Activision). Its the lack of risk and new IP going to the other 90% of publishers who dont do that. Barely any new games these days have came out that at least have a genuinely new story to them or are not major clones of another game.

 

[BrotherRool]

I disagree, listen to Richard Garriot and Chris Spears talking about SotA, RG specifically said in one interview that he WANTS to be beholden to the fans of the game because its us who buy them, if they are putting up ideas but the players hate the idea then its better to know early in development so that can be changed than after the game is released and no one buys it. I am loving being involved, not just in "preordering" the game but actually having input into how its made

I see your dev and raise you Sid Meiers who was saying the opposite. I'm not saying kickstarters are bad for games though, they're just bad for strong innovation in games(And contrary to popular belief, it's entirely possible to be brilliant whilst not inventing a new type of cheese). You need a lot of freedom and iteration to make something very new and very different and the larger budget kickstarters are required to lock down before that can happen.

EDIT: I back 5 kickstarter games and 2 other projects, so it's not like I'm anti-kickstarter or anything

 

[Aramis Night]

Well so far I've only invested in one game through kickstarter and i have no regrets at all with the final product. I invested in Grinding Gear Games: Path of Exile. The game was a better Diablo 3 than Diablo 3 by miles. I gave them only $50 which was all i could afford at the time. The incentives they had for giving them more were very tempting and if i had the money at the time i would have paid more.

Sadly i didn't have funds available in time to invest in Grim Dawn during its kickstarter but i still plan on throwing money at them as well. Grim Dawn so far has me really looking forward to it as i love their previous game: Titan Quest, and Grim Dawn looks really fun if your into ARPG's.

I just really can't see kickstarter as a failure, just maybe if your just into certain game genres.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

They are making games that had a large fanbase, but not a large enough one for the biggest companies to cater to. RPG's are now very diluted in the games industry thanks to the success of "action adventure" which apparently everybody wants, so on Kickstarter they can make games to those who felt that their favoured game types were being ignored.

I never saw Kickstarter as a way of being unshackled from creativity, so much as being unshackled in the sense that nobody can tell you not to make X game because it won't sell as well as Y game. The triple A industry seems to be practically run based upon focus groups and statistics whereas people funding games via Kickstarter can appeal directly to actual people and hear what they want.

this is the main reason why i love it, it's an easy way for everyone to have a voice directly to the developers to read/see, and the dev's can really get down to the nitty gritty about what they are offering and for what price.

plus this is a good way to force competition onto the AAA scene, so they can see what people like and why they are funding the shit out of something, and then when it becomes successful, their conservative asses can start funding/making shit like that.

also, to the OP, i suppose my expectations for "originality" aren't as high as mount everest, so i'm not surprised or displeased with kickstarter, but in that very same thought, start funding whatever you find to be "original" if you want it to make it big, whatever is getting funded is because people WANT it, and apparently that's not the same as what you want.

 

[Some_weirdGuy]

Methinks perhaps the finger is being pointed in the wrong direction?

There are plenty of kickstarter projects which are exactly what you seem to be looking for. The problem? the 'inventive risk-takers thinking outside the sequel/spiritual successor bubble' aren't getting funded as much, since it's a lot easier to persuade people to back something they already like by someone who already made what they like, so those are the ones that tend to make the money.

 

[Anthony Corrigan]

Methinks perhaps the finger is being pointed in the wrong direction?

There are plenty of kickstarter projects which are exactly what you seem to be looking for. The problem? the 'inventive risk-takers thinking outside the sequel/spiritual successor bubble' aren't getting funded as much, since it's a lot easier to persuade people to back something they already like by someone who already made what they like, so those are the ones that tend to make the money.

I agree, there is no way I'm going to throw money away on something I have no idea if I am even going to LIKE, especially more money than I would spend retail to buy a game in the first place. I want something that will give me value for that money.

One of the issues with Kickstarter is that your not actually investing in a project at all, you are donating money and buying rewards.

Now if a project was to give EQUITY in the results then you might see a wider variety of projects being made because then people could go from "I want to play this game, make it for me" to "I think this project will sell well even if its not my style so I will invest in it"

 

[Albino Boo]

But with Kickstarter, you'd be lucky to get anything more than a vague idea. Maybe some early art work. Beyond that, you're effectively preordering the game. Good point.

You also have no assurance the game will come out. With a pre-order, the game is slated for release and you will get a refund if it doesn't come out. Kickstarter? Long as they made the effort, they don't need to refund you. And this isn't about scamming. There are numerous reasons such a game might not come out.

err no that's not how it works, they are legally required to provide the gifts that they promised and in everyone I have seen that includes a copy of the game. If they don't provide that they have breeched the contract and you can take them to court if they refuse to provide a refund

Look, these are limited liability companies that are doing the kickstarters, which means you can only sue the company. If the business fails, then only the company assets are labile to recovery. They can't unpay people. The reality is that the consumer is taking the risk that the publisher and retailer normally does.

 

[teh_gunslinger]

Like the old XCOM games? Here, have Xenonauts, a blatant XCOM rip off.

Remember when Xenonauts were in production long before the new XCOM was announced? I guess not. Xenonauts never hid the fact that Goldhawk wanted to make a new game like the old X-Com games. That is the entire bloody point of Xenonauts. And again, it was well underway before it hit Kickstarter.

Aside from that, you may have ignored games like Consortium, FTL, Sir, You Are Being Hunted and plenty more.

 

[aba1]

I was hoping for kickstarter to attract more indie developers that needed a larger budget for new idea's for games. Well, there are plenty of those games too on kickstarter. But the most 'vocal' kind are the sequels, copies and larger companies wanting your money in advance to make a game, even though they already have enough money to work with. (It's like pre-ordering.)

Oh well, I never kickstarted because I'd rather wait for a game to actually come out before throwing my money at it.

I dunno about everyone else but I know now that kickstarter is going to finally be open to Canadian indie devs and there is a bit of a community developing for indie devs here in Canada I wouldn't be surprised if you see more titles coming soon. I know I plan to use kickstarter at the end of the summer for my game personally.

http://www.blackenthesun.com/index.html
https://www.facebook.com/blackenthesunthegame

 

[MisterGobbles]

Crowdfunding is overall a wonderful thing, especially for music; I've funded way more albums than I have video games. But the reason more sequels are being funded by people is the same reason that more sequels are funded by game publishers: it's a safer investment that is going to result in something we already know has been tested and is good to some extent. People are less enthusiastic for newer and more experimental titles because they simply don't know what the results will be. Expect this to be less of an issue as time goes on, or if it isn't, maybe just an inherent flaw of the system.