Military Funeral Picketing partially banned, WBC are tools.

[dancinginfernal]

Freedom of speech ends when you start impeding the lives of others. I just see this as a goverment-mandated restraining order on a band of assholes.

Should I not be free to say that evolution is true, lest I impede the lives of creationists? It might challenge their beliefs or confuse their children, and I doubt they want that.

You can say/believe evolution is true all you want, you just can't camp outside of creationists' houses until they agree with you.

 

[Zoe Castillo]

0099

 

[runic knight]

yes they would kick me out but for completely different reasons, it would be for Civil disturbance . but the WBC weren?t doing anything illegal a US court already said that TWICE !

Spoiler

http://journalism.about.com/b/2011/03/02/supreme-court-rules-that-first-amendment-protects-churchs-right-to-stage-anti-gay-protests-at-military-funerals.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/02/AR2011030202548.html

What they were doing was completely legal

they aren?t standing 2 meters way from the dead soldier trying to spit into his grave ( through im sure they?d love to) they are on the street at the exit to the graveyard and are doing it with the protection of the cops .

I'm not talking about what's illegal right now, obviously. I didn't say it was illegal, I was giving you the reasons why it's basically the same as things that already are subject to punishment to show that the law is similarly justified.

And I explained why they aren?t , holding a peaceful protest (with a permit ) is not the same as braking into a building and insulting people or blowing up fireworks in the middle of the night . your examples have nothing to do with freedom of speech .

Why is someone called Genuine Evil arguing for freedom of speech? You impostor! You're not evil at all!

I made up this name when I was 14 =/ could have been worse , I could have been XxXdeathangelXxX or something.

But on a serious note im not sure why I defend them , I have a terrible habit of seeing the humanity in the wrong people but I don?t think that?s that .

I feel I have to argue for people, even if they are the worst of us because if you don?t defend other people?s rights no one is going to defend yours .

Spoiler: Depressing quote ahead

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

That last thing is a slipper slope fallacy if it is meant as a warning of things to come.

Speech has not fully been free for a while. Even such things as calling fire in a theater or issuing death threats are examples of the limitations of free speech. Generally speaking, it tends to end when it can cause actual damage to others. My "right to throw a punch ends at your nose" kind of thing.
With this, I see nothing wrong with this in terms of free speech. Those assholes are not prevented from saying what they want in the least. They are restricted from doing harm to people psychologically, people who are gathered and forced to become an audience to the harassment. Funeral go-ers have to go to a public area to participate in the funeral and I do not think that should mean they are offering themselves to the jeers and harassment of a bunch of gay bashing media whores doing it solely to get more attention to their hate-filled little church. A funeral is not meant for discussion or debate, it is meant as respect for the dead. Antagonizing people in an emotionally unwell state, especially with a lynch mob mentality behind it, it will cause harm psychologically the same way calling fire in a crowded theater can cause harm physically. Forcing a bit of distance between the two is not a violation of free speech any more then that.

 

[Pharsalus]

Abandon the legislation, they have the right to speak thier minds, and the patriot riders have the right to beat the shit out of them if they come within earshot of the bereaved families of our fallen servicemen.

Captcha = high horse, touche.

 

[RJ 17]

Snip

Oh it's all true. On the one hand, some people who have "infiltrated" the church report that they actually do appear to firmly believe in all the hate the spread about soldiers, homosexuals, and everyone else. But on the other hand, as I said, the family that runs the church is full of filthy-stinkin'-rich lawyers who got that rich by suing people that accost them during one of their protests.

 

[Faladorian]

I think you need to look up what harassment actually means http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/harassment.cfm

I know what harassment means, thanks.

They aren?t saying at the funeral as I?ve said they are outside of the graveyard surrounded by cops, when they say ?god hates fags? is not harassment nor is it defamatory speech it?s just stupid .
And as much as you don?t like it saying ? I'm glad that ****** is dead ? isn?t illegal.

I'm going on record now and saying that if you're the kind to argue semantics, I was done talking to you before I even started. Let's not go down that road.

I didn't say it was illegal. I also didn't say it was illegal to slander somebody during a public event. It doesnt have to require jail time for it to be something you shouldn't do.

Believe me, I know it's legal to say what you want where you want. I'm not arguing what is legal NOW, I'm simply saying the law (or "act" if it makes a damn difference) still allows people to express their opinions while sparing the mental torture of grieving family members.


Take Jerry Falwell[/quote] for example. I think he was an absolute pile of trash. A waste of oxygen and nuisance. I'm very glad somebody like him is dead.

And I can say that. I'm glad Jerry Falwell is dead.

However, no matter how hot my vitriol of religious figures is (see: center of the sun) I would never go to his funeral and tell his family members that he deserved to die.

It's one of those things that's simply not okay to do, and most people understand that. Just like most people understand that murder is wrong. But, in both cases, we have plenty of people who do it anyway, so that's when laws need to be placed.

 

[GenericAmerican]

I'm not sure why the WBC even does this. I mean, if you hate someone or something that much, why not keep away from it?

Exactly. Religious groups are given too much free reign. Preach all you want, but telling people they're terrible and deserve to burn for eternity? That should not be allowed, from street preachers to the WBC themselves.

And why haven't they been arrested for infringing other people's rights? Personally, I think if they come to your town, you should get a group together to simply shout them down, or, if necessary, chase 'em out. They don't deserve the air they breathe, and if they came near me, I'm not sure I could resist tearing them to pieces.

Free speech is a tricky issue, yes, but fact is, we have gotten to the point where we need to cut back certain people's rights because they are using them to abuse the rights of others. It should go without saying that you're not supposed to tell a cancer victim they deserved it, or shout at people through the funerals of their siblings, but WBC do not understand being civil. They don't understand what it is to be a good person. They must be forced to shut the fuck up.

The WBC isn't a church. . .it's a family of Lawyers and law experts that prey on people like you. They do this dispeciable shit, in the hopes of getting others riled up. And when someone acts out against them, WBC tears them a new asshole.

It's fucked beyond belief.

 

[Kitsune Hunter]

I maybe a supporter of free speech, but I have a limit that being the WBC, I know free speech is important, but we need to take the family who are grieving in consideration, I mean if I lost a family member who died fighting in a war, the last thing I would want to hear are a bunch of religious nutjobs telling me that a member of my family who risked his life everyday is burning in hell, because they think they understand God's will, seriously fuck the WBC, I may not be a big fan of the US army after the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, but there's a time and a place for everything to voice one's opinion and to voice hateful opinions at a funeral isn't one of them. But if it must be in order to uphold free speech, fine just as long as that if anything happens to the WBC members during their pickets, it's their own fault and they can't do anything about it

 

[Agow95]

How do europeans hate liberty when you yourself are saying that you should remove your "liberal" laws about free speech to stop hate speech and WBC like the europeans do?

 

[Use_Imagination_here]

You may not like it but it does , freedom of speech doesn?t stop whenever you start to feel uncomfortable and the first amendment doesn?t disappear when a funeral is in session . they have the right to say whatever they want regardless of whether it offends you or not, because if first amendment means anything then it means the right to tell people what they don?t want to hear, even if it?s wrong .

What if the situation was flipped what if a law was passed that said you are no longer allowed to critic the WBC to their face , you can do it anywhere else but you aren?t allowed to say anything to them while they are picketing funerals, what then?
I?d imagine you?d be outraged, and rightfully so . what makes it ok to do it to them ?

Yeah what they do is fucked up and you should call them out on it but censorship only makes them feel more like heroic underdogs fighting for justice.

This law does also mean you can't go and picket WBC funerals with highly offensive placards.

Personally am pretty ok with this - freedom of speech is a good thing, but upholding it when it is used to grossly violate another's rights is somewhat short-sighted.

True, but let?s not pretend that this law was passed to protect them or to stop other people from doing the same this was clearly passed as a way to sensor them . Because what they were doing was completely legal , fucked up , but legal. But because people didn?t like what they had to say so they decided to pass a law banned it. and im sorry but if first amendment means anything then it means the right to tell people what they don?t want to hear, even if it?s wrong .

If I got a megaphone and went to the street 20 feet from your house, and proceeded to call you a noob ass ****** for the entire night because you beat me at call of duty, you'd call the police and have me arrested because there are laws against that and there should be laws against that. If I went to the internet and used an entire blog entry for calling you a noob fag asshole you'd probably never find out about it and probably barely care if you did. This isn't censoring people's opinions, this is telling people to express their opinions about 250 yards in that direction without disturbing private events (in case you want to argue against the words private event, I wasn't using it as an official or legal term, just to describe an event that is private).

no if you used a megaphone in the middle of the night I?d call the police because you are physically inconveniencing me and not letting me sleep . it would have nothing to do with freedom of speech . but if all you did was stand there with as sign in the middle of the day I?d probably just make fun of you .

You just proved my point because people yelling at you that your dead husband is in hell and deserves to be there while you are trying to have a funeral is both physically and mentally inconvenient and disturbing. And you've yet to counter the point that it's not limiting free speech, it's saying to practise free speech without disturbing people deeply emotional private events.

 

[Doclector]

I'm not sure why the WBC even does this. I mean, if you hate someone or something that much, why not keep away from it?

Exactly. Religious groups are given too much free reign. Preach all you want, but telling people they're terrible and deserve to burn for eternity? That should not be allowed, from street preachers to the WBC themselves.

And why haven't they been arrested for infringing other people's rights? Personally, I think if they come to your town, you should get a group together to simply shout them down, or, if necessary, chase 'em out. They don't deserve the air they breathe, and if they came near me, I'm not sure I could resist tearing them to pieces.

Free speech is a tricky issue, yes, but fact is, we have gotten to the point where we need to cut back certain people's rights because they are using them to abuse the rights of others. It should go without saying that you're not supposed to tell a cancer victim they deserved it, or shout at people through the funerals of their siblings, but WBC do not understand being civil. They don't understand what it is to be a good person. They must be forced to shut the fuck up.

The WBC isn't a church. . .it's a family of Lawyers and law experts that prey on people like you. They do this dispeciable shit, in the hopes of getting others riled up. And when someone acts out against them, WBC tears them a new asshole.

It's fucked beyond belief.

I know, but I can't cope with there not being anything anyone can do to stop them. What they're doing is wrong, it shouldn't even be up for debate, anyone with half a fucking brain can see what they're doing is wrong. Maybe if people acted threatening without ever actually threatening them, they might get scared off and have no legal evidence to sue anyone?

 

[Pandaman1911]

Banning it outright? Not okay. Telling these cuntwaffles to keep their distance? That's great.

And why is there a floating piece of garlic bread levitating in the corner of my room trying to convince me that OJ didn't do it? Let me know below. Quickly.

Little-known fact! Garlic's allyl methyl sulfide, usually known for producing halitosis and pungent sweat, also enhances latent telekinetic and sentient features in certain brands of bread (long known to have said latent abilities).

 

[Zoe Castillo]

--

 

[TwiZtah]

I really tried to care, but no, fuck it, everything anyone does to WBC that hurts them, I´m up for it.

 

[Zoe Castillo]

--

 

[lacktheknack]

Well, it IS the First "Amendment"... I think the constitution could use a bit of a rewrite.

 

[lacktheknack]

I know, but I can't cope with there not being anything anyone can do to stop them. What they're doing is wrong, it shouldn't even be up for debate, anyone with half a fucking brain can see what they're doing is wrong. Maybe if people acted threatening without ever actually threatening them, they might get scared off and have no legal evidence to sue anyone?

No, they WANT you to threaten them. Acting threatening is like dropping a worm into water to scare away the fish.

To make them go away, you have to act like they don't exist.

Or join that biker gang that blocks the WBC out of funerals.

 

[MrFalconfly]

Why haven't they been charged for public disturbance yet?!?

I mean what they are saying is in no way, shape, or form constructive. No one can go home and use anything they say.

I mean Enhedslisten (a political party in Denmark which is essentially just the "Danish Communist Workers Party") say a lot of things I disagree with but I'm fine with them saying it because some of it is constructive, but these WBC guys? Yeah sure they stand at a public place but their message is clearly aimed at the persons at the funeral.

Captcha: exercise more

Oi! I am exercising! 6 out of 7 days as a matter of fact you twit.