Military Funeral Picketing partially banned, WBC are tools.

[chadachada123]

The law doesn't specifically target them. It targets ANYONE who would protest at a funeral. The WBC is just the only group that has the audacity to do such a thing.

On another note, what are the 'public property laws' in the US? Here, public property is always owned by someone, either the state, the city district or privately owned, and each owner is responsible for what happens. If you protest (or even do any kind of activity-like getting signatures for a petition) you have to notify whoever is in charge.

And besides...yelling "****** soldier! Burn in hell!" is more like defamation than actual some form of political expression. Defamation of a dead person...at their funeral.

I can call them inbred trolls, but I can also accept the fact that I wouldn't be able to yell that at them when they're burying a deceased relative.

What you described is not defamation in any sense. Defaming someone means that you cause demonstrable damage to their public image, generally through deceptive means (by lying about them). That isn't to say that their actions couldn't necessarily be found to be illegal in SOME way, just that it isn't defamation under US definition.

The United States doesn't distinguish regular expression from political expression like the AU does. Expression is expression. There are laws against harassment, but those generally involve direct contact for an extended period, not a half hour of being a dick from 100 feet away, no matter how emotionally vulnerable you are at the time.

As for public property, the thing about being public in the United States is that you don't need to tell anyone ahead of time, generally, to make a political statement on a sidewalk or in a park, so long as you aren't infringing on the rights of others. You DEFINITELY would never need to seek permission to get signatures for a petition in a public forum, on a regular old sidewalk, and I consider that to be particularly asinine, because it'd be very easy for a corrupt government to censor you if they thought you didn't support their being in power.

Parades and the like, that block roads, generally require approval first, barring towns that haven't yet amended their laws to require it. Sidewalk protests, though? In most states and cities, you do not need prior approval, as that land is for everyone to use as a public forum.

At least, that is my understanding of it. It may change from city to city slightly.

 

[SonicWaffle]

No, the Patriot Guard are the main guys who follow Westboro everywhere they go. I was just wondering why you said they didnt count.

Because I was talking about a specifically Christian meeting or organisation saying "these are not my values, the WBC don't represent us" rather than a gathering of people whose only agenda is "stop the WBC from being cunts"

Except you have to remember, most polls say that 70% of Americans identify as Christians (of varying sects such as Catholic, Lutheran, etc). Even if they dont explicitly say that they are christian, you can assume most of the people are, especially when they protest in the Midwest or South (considering they consistanly score high in people who identify as Christian)

Yes, but they're not doing it in the name of Christianity. They're doing it out of basic human decency, which means that the only view of Christianity presented by such things is the WBC one, with the religion of the counter-protestors being ignored.

My point was that by not responding as a group and under a banner, they're allowing the image of Christians in America being broadcast to the world to be that of the WBC. They're also missing a great chance to get inside the heads of, and possibly change the minds of, the younger church members by demonstrating what Christian values should be.

 

[madster11]

If obama really disapproved he could just tell the secret service that WBC should disappear.
Come on, we all know the US govt isn't all kittens and shit. Just roll with it.

 

[BOOM headshot65]

Except you have to remember, most polls say that 70% of Americans identify as Christians (of varying sects such as Catholic, Lutheran, etc). Even if they dont explicitly say that they are christian, you can assume most of the people are, especially when they protest in the Midwest or South (considering they consistanly score high in people who identify as Christian)

Yes, but they're not doing it in the name of Christianity. They're doing it out of basic human decency, which means that the only view of Christianity presented by such things is the WBC one, with the religion of the counter-protestors being ignored.

My point was that by not responding as a group and under a banner, they're allowing the image of Christians in America being broadcast to the world to be that of the WBC. They're also missing a great chance to get inside the heads of, and possibly change the minds of, the younger church members by demonstrating what Christian values should be.

Now your just nitpicking. Anyone with half a brain should realize that WBC is nothing more than an extremist minority when thier home state which is highly religious disowns them! Christianity is literally the most common religion on the planet, with over 2 BILLION members. Odds are, someone knows someone who is christian, and knows better than to think they are like WBC.

 

[Something Amyss]

So, Escapists, should America let the people who I'm running out of insulting names for protest lest we invalidate the 1st amendment? Should I be taking my meds more often? And why is there a floating piece of garlic bread levitating in the corner of my room trying to convince me that OJ didn't do it? Let me know below. Quickly.

Yes, yes, because ponies.

But more in depth on the first question:

The whole point of rights is that they are guaranteed to people. specifically, free speech is supposed to protect unpopular speech, because popular speech doesn't need protection. However, what disgusts me is that when WBC lays hands on people, there are religious outcries of FREE SPEECH!

That's NOT protected.

Seems to me, if people wanted to bust up WBC, they have legal grounds to do so. They're obstructionist, sometimes physically so.

I also resent the limitation of rights "because military." WBC are twits, but the first amendment doesn't cover hurt feelings.

And don't trust the garlic bread. He's after you.

 

[Stryc9]

I don't see why hate monger picketing at funerals can't be charged under harassment and disturbing the peace. If I started screaming and raving how someone should burn in hell while standing in a public area, I'd go to jail. Yet, it makes it okay and a matter of 'freedom of speech' if a group does it? If you are saying so-and-so should die etc etc, why isn't that considered illegal to do when done in a group?

They get away with it because they get all the proper permits for their protest. If you deny them their permit to protest a funeral and then give someone else a permit to protest anything else they will pitch a ***** about how you're discriminating against their views. To top it all off somehow a bunch of these inbred fucks somehow scraped together enough brain cells to become lawyers and would probably sue any municipality that dares to defy them.

Their ability to get away with this shit all boils down to their ability to use the law the way it was intended to be used to push their completely stupid inbred hate speech on the rest of society. The best thing to do is ignore them completely and entirely. If we could convince every media outlet in the world to stop talking about these people every time they turn up somewhere to protest then their power is diminished. I doubt it would stop their protesting at all but they wouldn't get the attention they seek when they don't turn up on every news station and all the local papers.

 

[Varil]

Freedom of speech ends when you start impeding the lives of others. I just see this as a goverment-mandated restraining order on a band of assholes.

Should I not be free to say that evolution is true, lest I impede the lives of creationists? It might challenge their beliefs or confuse their children, and I doubt they want that.

Of course you can! But you can't go to a creationist church to stand in their parking lot and yell at them about how stupid they are.

 

[senordesol]

What the hell? Only 300 feet? Some states have pushed them back to over 2,000 feet if I recall correctly.

This isn't an abridgement of Freedom of Speech, however, it's just a zoning law. Just as you cannot distribute political materials within a certain distance of a polling place, it makes sense that you can't stage any sort of demonstration within a certain distance of a funeral.

It's just sad that such an ordinance needs to be created, but they've got a right to say what they want to say; just as we've got a right to call them assholes for saying it. World keeps on spinnin'.

 

[senordesol]

Freedom of speech ends when you start impeding the lives of others. I just see this as a goverment-mandated restraining order on a band of assholes.

Should I not be free to say that evolution is true, lest I impede the lives of creationists? It might challenge their beliefs or confuse their children, and I doubt they want that.

Of course you can! But you can't go to a creationist church to stand in their parking lot and yell at them about how stupid they are.

You can do that on the sidewalk though.

EDIT: And somehow I skipped over the first part of your comment, totally invalidating my response.

 

[J. Mazarin]

snip

An astounding amount of arrogance coming from someone who is so astoundingly ignorant of what's actually going on here.


The WBC's First Amendment rights have not been breached. They are not being "censored" in the totalitarian, Orwellian, super-fascist way that the word "censor" usually evokes.

They're still free to say what they want, they just have to say it over there.

 

[ecoho]

hey just pass a law that lets those being harrassed to beat the ever liveing shit out of these idiots and all will be well

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

It seems quite a few people are equating "not being able to shout insults closer than 300 feet" with "preventing them from protesting". They can still protest, just not within 300 feet. Consider it to be a decency forcefield.

 

[Faladorian]

I don?t like America, oh sure it started off with some very noble intentions but it?s now become the crazy capital of the modern world .
but with that said their bill of rights is one of the few things I do like about them , I hold freedom of speech as one of the most important rights people should have . I don?t even mind hate speech as long as it's not suggesting harming other people or their property , and while I don?t like it the WBC did not violate The First amendment and should be allowed to do what they do if only to show the world America is still the land of the free .

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"-Voltaire

Well, they have the right to protest as much as they want, just not near a funeral. Some "freedoms" are conditional like that.


I have the "freedom" to set off fireworks, but not late at night when it would disturb other people. I think that's fair, and it's also fair that the WBC can protest all they want, just not near a funeral where it would disturb people.

 

[Use_Imagination_here]

That's not really bending the first amendment as much as it is telling people to stay away from private events. Don't understand why there wasn't a law like that allready.

 

[Cabisco]

As an Englishman I don't think I can really appreciate the constitution in the same way Americans do. I'd personally be of the opinion of 'fuck em' and if they want to be pricks they can enjoy some quality time in prison or get fined heavily.

 

[RatRace123]

Eh, I see nothing wrong with keeping those cretins away.

If they want to play the whole "freedom of speech" angle. Then I say, we play the harassment angle. Any sane person could see that's what they're doing. They may not be physically hurting anyone, but their intent is clearly directed towards the deceased and their family.

And if that doesn't work, then let's get abstract and say that as a "religion" (cult, group of subhuman pieces of trash, whatever), the WBC have no grounds to be near the funeral of a solider, someone who worked for the government. Meaning that they're in violation of separation of church and state by holding a religious demonstration a solider's funeral.

There's a lot of ways we can screw with these bastards using the constitutional rights. We just have to get creative.

Also, some of their leaders have gotta be getting up there in age. When one of those bigots drop, I urge everyone who possibly can to go protest that funeral. And then claim "freedom of speech" when they get pissy about it.

 

[Cat Beadle]

ok this might come across as ignorant... but...

Do u not have quiet trains. or rules at cinema's allowing the patron to be kicked out? what about noise pollution from a party? can i just throw a party in the states all night long screaming faggots will go to hell or something full of hate like the wbc and not be taken to jail... if i am taken to jail is that not then against the first?