Minding Your Language

[SenseOfTumour]

Having said what I said earlier, and reading some of the replies, I'm not actually anti profanity, I'm with Stephen Fry when he says that used correctly, swearing can be some of the most effective words available.

But of course, when it is all you have, it gets overused and becomes tiresome.

Welcome to CowboyIkari too, of Ikari Warriors fame? (pewpew)

 

[Abedeus]

I do have to dumb down my English, too. Because only 2 people in my group understand what a "hobo" is.

For instance, I was reading a homework and suddenly I hear a voice behind me "What the hell is a bum?". I ignored it, and then when I've read the word "supernatural", a lot of people bursted into laughter. What the hell, Mike? I know, my British accent isn't perfect, but for Pete's sake, it's not a hard word!

I'm sorry if I'm speaking at a level higher then yours. Please consult a diccionary for help regarding your problems with my advanced vocabulary. I have a spare one, help yourself.

 

[NewClassic_v1legacy]

Overdoing it is not really necessary. I'm no English major but I have a good grasp of the language. To be honest, reading the first post on this thread felt like reading a thesis or a fraking lecturer's notes (my tone is not intended to be in any way offensive by the way).

I'll be honest in saying that I did go out of my way to elevate the word choice for the opening post. The later posts in this thread are my natural diction, which is admittedly still somewhat inflated, it's not out of any particular attempt to impress. It's just how I talk.

Though the discussion still stands, as I have had moments where I needed to moderate my own language, despite it being my own natural manner of speaking.

Also, welcome to the forums. Hope you enjoy it here.

 

[Alex_P]

I have a problem with folks on this thread constantly saying "dumb down".

Grandiloquence is not a sure sign of intelligence. And thoughts spoken simply aren't necessarily simple thoughts. Read some poetry!

I've got no problem with language like the OP's -- it's natural and, at worst, it comes off as just a bit too digressive(*) -- but I've noticed that a lot of folks who pride themselves on having "a great vocabulary" are, well, trying too hard. Artificially "elevated" diction is best friends with overcorrection: both are all about trying to parrot high-status speech without truly understanding how it's constructed.

All communication involves status, but trying to puff up your status hurts your ideas and demeans your audience. It also makes you look like a self-important clod.

-- Alex
________
* - This is a parodic footnote. Because I was talking about digression, y'see!

 

[Valiance]

It depends who I'm talking to.

Generally, with my friends, I may say unclear things, but they understand after I elaborate a little bit. I tend to speak naturally, which usually works out, but sometimes doesn't, especially when my memory escapes me...("That show has..that guy, who does that thing! You know, the one from uhh...That movie about the aliens?")

On forums and in other essays, or times when I'm trying to start a conversation with someone, I usually think it through much more.

In either case, I try to use the word which is correct for the job, whether or not I learned it when I was 7 years old, or last year.

 

[ProfessorLayton]

People understand what you're talking about, so why worry about how "professional" it sounds? I mean, everyone knows what "ain't" means, and you only sound like a douche by correcting people on their grammar, so why worry? The only thing that get's me mad is when people type l1k3 th1$ by going out of their way to type and speak like that.

 

[sky14kemea]

hmm, i always speak and type in full english, so its never been a problem to talk to adults and stuff
but talking to other teenagers is a big problem, im not used to the slang so its sounds weird when i say it
i can use shorthand when i want, i just prefer not too

 

[Bofus Teefus]

In my average day, I will spend a portion of my day dealing with Joe Public, and a portion dealing with doctorate-level types, mostly PharmD and MD. What I mean by Joe Public (or Josephine- lets include both genders) is just a community sample. I'll call it JP. JP can be educated or not, but when I deal with JP, I need to be understood regardless of education, so I speak to JP like I would a twelve year old. I'm not making one of those "most people are stupid" comments, I'm only saying that I don't know who can understand what right off the bat, so I've got to keep it simple. When I speak to the PharmD and MD types, there's a bit of an expectation that I heighten the vernacular a bit. The result is that for half of the day at one level of communication, and half at another.

Lately, I've found myself deliberately dumbing down (yes, I said dumbing down) my conversations with the doctorate crowd. My rationale for this is that most of them tend to explain things to JP in ways that leave JP utterly confused, and I figure if the doctorate gang hears things put more simply than they usually hear them, they may start to explain things to JP a bit better. I think that if you're dealing with a normal, heterogenous sample of the community, you should be expected to communicate at their level, so I'm trying to discourage these guys from continually confusing JP and sending them away uninformed.

In short, yes- I moderate my language to the point where I'm not sure what I would sound like if I just spoke naturally.

 

[LifeSarcastic]

Well yes, I have a pretty wide vocabulary level within the english language it would be a crying shame 'not' to use it creatively when you need to express some kind of dismay or anger in place of a vulgur obsenity. I may even use the two in conjunction at times. All things in moderation, even language. =)

Which I'm sorry to say which is why we dictionary nerds look down on you F-bomb abusers.
Obviously when I've consumed enough alchohol I diminish into incomplete sentences full of mispronounciations and confusing made up words much to the amusement of my friends. So yes I guess 'big boy language' is good for somthing if you're fairly secure with your self image.

I agree with you on that. Every time I hear someone drop an F-bomb I cringe a little and think,"What a moron, can you really find no other way to get your point across." (This happens constantly at my school >.<) Anyway,when speaking in person I occasionally find myself considering what next few words I'll use. It really depends on who I'm talking to. With certain people I don't want to sound pretentious by using more complex words. With most of my friends I don't have to do this.

 

[CrafterMan]

Heteroglossia and the floccinaucinihilipilification of your audience's interest in other things than your monologue are best avoided.

I agree!

Or do I?

I don't know!! *runs*

 

[Saskwach]

Objective considerations of contemporary phenomena compel the conclusion that success or failure in competitive activities exhibits no tendency to be commensurate with innate capacity, but that a considerable element of the unpredictable must invariably be taken into account.

This is the kind of shit that Derrida would write. Then, if you managed to actually extricate some meaning from it and had anything at all to say in response, he'd turn around and claim that maybe he meant the exact opposite of what you thought and you should go think about it some more.

-- Alex

George Orwell's lovely afore-linked essay actually says this (not exactly about Derrida, though). In his view, this puffed-up language is often used to allow plausible deniability whenever someone insists on pinning you to something as demeaning as a position. Man, Georgey really knew how to roll up a newspaper and smack pseudo-intellectuals in the face...or something like that. Could have something to do with him being a hack*.
I have to confess that lately I've found grammar and punctuation much more interesting to study than sheer vocabulary. Anyone can swallow a dictionary and talk about stevedores and concatenation, but punctuation - that can't be faked (though I wish it could be).
Forgetting that I'm actually a newb with the semi-colon, it's clear that someone really knows how to write when they can use one themselves - and properly. But it's also interesting how much punctuation is just style. That's actually the scariest part: there's no hard and fast rule I can find that can predict when two different writers will use a particular punctuation mark. It's infuriating, and it doesn't help me at all in my own struggles.

*"Hack" used to simply mean "journalist"; it's a badge that GO is happy, even proud, to pin to his chest.

Tangents: they can be done with simple language too.

 

[Labyrinth]

I have a problem with folks on this thread constantly saying "dumb down".

Grandiloquence is not a sure sign of intelligence. And thoughts spoken simply aren't necessarily simple thoughts. Read some poetry!

I've got no problem with language like the OP's -- it's natural and, at worst, it comes off as just a bit too digressive(*) -- but I've noticed that a lot of folks who pride themselves on having "a great vocabulary" are, well, trying too hard. Artificially "elevated" diction is best friends with overcorrection: both are all about trying to parrot high-status speech without truly understanding how it's constructed.

All communication involves status, but trying to puff up your status hurts your ideas and demeans your audience. It also makes you look like a self-important clod.

-- Alex
________
* - This is a parodic footnote. Because I was talking about digression, y'see!

The thing about the phrase "dumbing down", especially when I use it, is that it means I'm speaking without my normal extensive use of words. This has, as I said before, become largely subconscious, with only occasional interference from my conscious mind when I'm deliberately manipulating the diction in order to achieve a certain end. I do use technical language, especially scientific or literary terms. I talk about hyperbole, but every so often I find I need to say exaggeration instead. It gets to the point at times when I've had friends ask that I "talk stupid" too them. Embarrassed me actually.

 

[Scarecrow38]

Minding Your Language
[sup][user]NewClassic[/user] considers the power and pretension of language.[/sup]

Contrary to what the title may suggest, this is not a thread about the use of expletives or cuss words, but rather a thread examining diction and word-choice. Largely because I've been spending a lot of time carefully considering which words I use and how they're placed.

Normally, this would be a really bizarre topic to consider. Because it's such a natural thing to just use whatever language normally comes out of your mouth regardless of what level of elevation, tone, expressiveness, or diction. Although it's become a point of consideration for me because I'm not even entirely sure I can be understood between my overt use of expressive and intricate language.

I'm unsure of what exactly to shift the blame onto. I don't believe this is in essence the end-result of being an English major in university because I feel as if I've used this sort of language for the overwhelming majority of my adult life. It really is an eye-opener when you have to stop speaking so many times that you begin consciously considering word-choice.

Pompous and elevated pretension through superfluous vocabulary aside, it did increase my awareness of the variety of linguistic patterns I apply to my colloquial method of conversation. Which begged consideration as to the inherent nature of vocabulary versus clarity. In essence to inquire as to whether or not an agreeable compromise could be reached. In searching for a more enlightening solution, I began to examine the speech patterns of passers-by and my peers.

The first thing I noticed is that simplistic language does not immediately facilitate proof of unintelligent language. There was a marked subtlety and grace that carried itself wondrously with certain speakers, even when their vocabulary was compromised almost exclusively of mono-syllables or simple statements. I began to wonder if it was just the alienating properties of unnecessarily elaborate diction that established a communicative barrier. After a discussion with another English major, we decided that while admittedly more difficult, formal and intricate language itself was not as alienating as the tone was.

The end result of all of my self-propelled observation is that I could not observe language and come to a conclusive decision without interactive inquiry. So I thought of no better intellectual participants than our very own Escapists.

Discussion Prompt

So, does present company catch itself moderating its own language? (Through posts, or spoken, either will apply.) If so, is it difficult to consciously alter your method of speech? If not, is it because your peers are capable of following your diction regardless of elevation, or do you find your colloquial dialogues simple to understand regardless of previous education?

Are you related to Sir Humphrey Appleby?

On topic.. I don't change how I speak or the words I use ever, I just say what I want to say in the way I first think of saying it. No one's ever had issues with understanding so there's no real argument for changing how I communicate.

 

[Sycker]

The Yorkshire accent means that if anyone on the internet is to understand me, i'll have to use my MASSIVE knowledge of words and Standard English in order to have a conversation.

 

[bmf185]

I think that my language varies depending on my company; it seems to be somewhat of an unconscious matter. After all, why use "big" words or esoteric jargon if you just have to explain yourself in simpler terms anyway?

 

[BubbleGumSnareDrum]

One thing I love about the Escapist forums is that in terms of vocabulary and usage the largest bulk of us have more in common with Tycho Brahe (as in Jerry Holkins' alter ego, not the Dutch astronomer) than with Dr. Seuss or Barney (the purple dinosaur, not the misunderstood drunk genius from The Simpsons.)

I'm a firm believer in "never use a simple word where a complex one would do the job better, and if the complex word comes from a foreign language, well, das ist gut, ja?" I love to pepper my conversation with witticisms, bons mots, random acts of elucidation, and a little touch of pretense to hold contempt over the Great Unwashed. And if someone (my blonde stereotype idiot boss, for example) scratches her head, says "Huh?" and flips her hair, then I've accomplished my mission for the day of confusing a stupid person for fun.

I'm the exact same way. Call it elitist and maybe even intellectually narcissistic, but I love to remind myself which of my friends are on my level and which ones I need to talk to like they're children. I've grown to value the people who can hold an intelligent conversation that much more.

 

[Inverse Skies]

Language has a lot to do with the people you're around, and that's just a part of normal psychology. You're obviously going to use differing language in say, a job interview, than the way you would speak normally about your friends.

People act differently depending on the social situation, and the words they choose, their sentence structure and how they articulate themselves are all natural consequences of that. People spoke differently now to how they do in the 17th century, I (living in Aus) will phrase my sentences differently and use differing words than someone who lives in the US.

It all depends on how you perceive a situation as to how you respond vocally to it, and your choice of language is just an extension of that perception.

 

[Same River New Water]

From childhood I developed a habit of pausing and saying "um" when I'm about to say an obscure word in conversation, even though I already know what word I want to say. Depending on how you look at it, either it's a polite gesture to stop the other person feeling bad about their smaller vocabulary, or I'm a nervous tit.

Anyway.

To me, the best measure of communication quality is efficiency: how quickly and easily you sent the message plus how clearly and easily the other person understood the message equals how well you communicated. You have to take your audience into account. If you're a specialist talking about your field to other specialists, it's efficient to use obscure jargon; to a broader audience, it's more efficient to speak simply.

Speaking of which, have you seen Simple Wikipedia [http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page]? It's everyone's favourite online encyclopedia, but with all articles written in basic language. It's designed for children and people who speak limited English, but it's fun for all.

 

[Galletea]

I find that my vocabulary choices alter dramatically depending on the person I'm speaking to, and also according to my goal. I've often found myself looking for a more common word to express the more obscure one I'm thinking of. I leaned to read at a young age, and have read many books, encouraged that a wide vocabulary is beneficial, but then I do find myself having to explain some of the words I use.

This does remind me of a conversation we were having recently, and how little choices can dramatically alter the impact of what you say. I find that if I'm trying to criticise something, I use a lot of conditionals to avoid making the object of my critique believe that I hate their work and it's all incorrect.