Misconceptions about PC gaming.

[Bulletinmybrain]

Don't want to be the downer, friend, but you are displaying a few misconceptions as well...
...Jumping from 6--->9 series means you should really inspect your hardware before doing that because it's been several years in between.

Just here to help Ask questions if need be.

Sir (ma'am?), you've completely convinced me. I'll save up for either the 8600GT 1GB (best price I found was less than £50 inc. shipping (£15 less than the 9500) or the 9800GT (yes, not 8800) 512MB for about £100 if I can get my parents to chip in (which I probably can). Or I can get the 8800GT 512 for exactly the same price (from the same website, strangely); which should I go for? I'm not absolutely sure if one's actually a higher spec than the other.
Also since my cpu sucks am I able to compensate using the gpu?

Also I'm going to stalk you for the rest of my or your life asking you questions about what I should get If I ask you anything else I'll do it via PM so as not to spam this thread (which has gone completely off topic).

Also also, yes my mobo supports CPIe.

Probably not, If you use nvidia then theres a nice intel cpu that will last you awhile and so will whatever card you get.

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

Here's the thing: that stuff may simple to you, and is vaguely apparent to me, which I cold figure out after a bit of research, but the vast majority of people, including console gamers, will have no idea what you're on about here. The whole idea of building our own PC is alien. If we were to think about making the transition to PC gaming, we would wander down to Curry's, Dixons or Dell etc, and look at the prices. We wouldn't have the confidence to make our own. It's like supermarkets. Theoretically, it's easier to grow ur own veg, raise some chickens, etc. But it's easier in the short term just to wander down to the supermarket and buy it, prepackaged, after a hard day at work. That's why consoles are popular.

Incidentally, FHM, a British lad's magazine, published a section entitled the "Man Manual", where they discussed a lot of things which they expected real men to be able to do - one of the things was making your own PC. Funny: I never expected what I do with my computer in my spare time to be considered the stuff of "real men". I'm not sure whether to be proud or suspicious.

(For the record, I've got quite a few hobbies which are definitely the preserves of so-called "real men". The strong interest in cars, machinery and military equipment - Bloke Central.)

Building a computer is fairly easy if you know what parts you need..

 

[ReepNeep]

Lots and lots of words

Aware of all of that, but I avoid AMD like the plague. I love a good tech debate though

My 8800GTS (G92) handled Crysis on high at 1280x1050 fairly well. Chugged during the heavy parts, but it got through it good.

Secondly, how well does Phenom Overclock? Intel has proven to be amazing overclockers.

Phenom overclocks rather poorly. 3.1 Ghz is considered to be a very good phenom OC. Phenom does indeed scale better in software that uses all four cores but it is still slower Mhz for Mhz and in addition can't hit the same speeds the Core 2s can. There's a very good reason that top of the line intel processors run 1000$+ and theres no Phenom available that costs more than 350$.

Phenom was specifically designed to be a server processor and does VERY well in the specialized applications used in that environment. It also scales much better than Intel chips in multi-processor systems. If you're only using one or two cores, however, Core 2 chips are generally a good bit faster.

Hopefully AMD can step up their game with the 45nm revamp for Phenom and make this a two horse race again for the home users.

 

[ReepNeep]

Sir (ma'am?), you've completely convinced me. I'll save up for either the 8600GT 1GB (best price I found was less than £50 inc. shipping (£15 less than the 9500) or the 9800GT (yes, not 8800) 512MB for about £100 if I can get my parents to chip in (which I probably can). Or I can get the 8800GT 512 for exactly the same price (from the same website, strangely); which should I go for? I'm not absolutely sure if one's actually a higher spec than the other.
Also since my cpu sucks am I able to compensate using the gpu?

Also I'm going to stalk you for the rest of my or your life asking you questions about what I should get If I ask you anything else I'll do it via PM so as not to spam this thread (which has gone completely off topic).

Also also, yes my mobo supports CPIe.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD don't buy that 8600. Those cards were always overpriced and slow. That thing doesn't have the power to make good use of 512mb ram, much less 1gb.

If you insist on buying Nvidia, get an 8800 or 9800 GT. Their specs are basically identical. The 9800 GT will occupy the same price point and will use less power. The 8800GT has the advantage of being available today. Those things can run anything on the market except Crysis at maximum detail at 12x10 or even 16x10.

 

[Aries_Split]

Lots and lots of words

Aware of all of that, but I avoid AMD like the plague. I love a good tech debate though

My 8800GTS (G92) handled Crysis on high at 1280x1050 fairly well. Chugged during the heavy parts, but it got through it good.

Secondly, how well does Phenom Overclock? Intel has proven to be amazing overclockers.

Phenom overclocks rather poorly. 3.1 Ghz is considered to be a very good phenom OC. Phenom does indeed scale better in software that uses all four cores but it is still slower Mhz for Mhz and in addition can't hit the same speeds the Core 2s can. There's a very good reason that top of the line intel processors run 1000$+ and theres no Phenom available that costs more than 350$.

Phenom was specifically designed to be a server processor and does VERY well in the specialized applications used in that environment. It also scales much better than Intel chips in multi-processor systems. If you're only using one or two cores, however, Core 2 chips are generally a good bit faster.

Hopefully AMD can step up their game with the 45nm revamp for Phenom and make this a two horse race again for the home users.

I've overclocked a Q6600 (A great Processor for the buck.) to 3.3 before with time and patience. I went from 2.4

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

Lots and lots of words

Aware of all of that, but I avoid AMD like the plague. I love a good tech debate though

My 8800GTS (G92) handled Crysis on high at 1280x1050 fairly well. Chugged during the heavy parts, but it got through it good.

Secondly, how well does Phenom Overclock? Intel has proven to be amazing overclockers.

Phenom overclocks rather poorly. 3.1 Ghz is considered to be a very good phenom OC. Phenom does indeed scale better in software that uses all four cores but it is still slower Mhz for Mhz and in addition can't hit the same speeds the Core 2s can. There's a very good reason that top of the line intel processors run 1000$+ and theres no Phenom available that costs more than 350$.

Phenom was specifically designed to be a server processor and does VERY well in the specialized applications used in that environment. It also scales much better than Intel chips in multi-processor systems. If you're only using one or two cores, however, Core 2 chips are generally a good bit faster.

Hopefully AMD can step up their game with the 45nm revamp for Phenom and make this a two horse race again for the home users.

I've overclocked a Q6600 (A great Processor for the buck.) to 3.3 before with time and patience. I went from 2.4

Thats on-par with intels wolfdale proccessors OC. 3.0-4 also i'm guessing that was an quadcore?

 

[Aries_Split]

Lots and lots of words

Aware of all of that, but I avoid AMD like the plague. I love a good tech debate though

My 8800GTS (G92) handled Crysis on high at 1280x1050 fairly well. Chugged during the heavy parts, but it got through it good.

Secondly, how well does Phenom Overclock? Intel has proven to be amazing overclockers.

Phenom overclocks rather poorly. 3.1 Ghz is considered to be a very good phenom OC. Phenom does indeed scale better in software that uses all four cores but it is still slower Mhz for Mhz and in addition can't hit the same speeds the Core 2s can. There's a very good reason that top of the line intel processors run 1000$+ and theres no Phenom available that costs more than 350$.

Phenom was specifically designed to be a server processor and does VERY well in the specialized applications used in that environment. It also scales much better than Intel chips in multi-processor systems. If you're only using one or two cores, however, Core 2 chips are generally a good bit faster.

Hopefully AMD can step up their game with the 45nm revamp for Phenom and make this a two horse race again for the home users.

I've overclocked a Q6600 (A great Processor for the buck.) to 3.3 before with time and patience. I went from 2.4

Thats on-par with intels wolfdale proccessors OC. 3.0-4 also i'm guessing that was an quadcore?

Q6600 is the 2.4ghz model of intels quadcore. yes.

 

[TheKbob]

Another misconception disproved: All PC builders/gamers are arrogant pricks who are elitist and won't help out anyone. There a those type of people on both side of the fence and sadly, the are usually the most vocal.

 

[clarinetJWD]

Another misconception disproved: All PC builders/gamers are arrogant pricks who are elitist and won't help out anyone. There a those type of people on both side of the fence and sadly, the are usually the most vocal.

This is certainly not something I've run into, but even so, I'm glad to see it dispelled. I'm more than happy to help anyone out building a computer, and honestly, I get excited to do so! For years now, there have been a ton of very helpful communities online about building, tweaking, and overclocking, though my own adventures in overclocking always seem to end with me putting all the settings back to stock.

 

[TheKbob]

Another misconception disproved: All PC builders/gamers are arrogant pricks who are elitist and won't help out anyone. There a those type of people on both side of the fence and sadly, the are usually the most vocal.

This is certainly not something I've run into, but even so, I'm glad to see it dispelled. I'm more than happy to help anyone out building a computer, and honestly, I get excited to do so! For years now, there have been a ton of very helpful communities online about building, tweaking, and overclocking, though my own adventures in overclocking always seem to end with me putting all the settings back to stock.

You too? Overclocking, to me, is another game that PC builders play. Who can get the highest score (clock) on their parts without melting a hole through their case. If everything is overclocked, you will see a performance increase. If you get a solid overclock on your GFX cards, you might see an increase, as well.

Usually the people doing this though already have hardware that trounces any application they intend to run, so it becomes a matter of bragging rights versus the actual need.

I'm lazy, I would rather just buy a new one when the old gets too old for my taste.

 

[clarinetJWD]

Another misconception disproved: All PC builders/gamers are arrogant pricks who are elitist and won't help out anyone. There a those type of people on both side of the fence and sadly, the are usually the most vocal.

This is certainly not something I've run into, but even so, I'm glad to see it dispelled. I'm more than happy to help anyone out building a computer, and honestly, I get excited to do so! For years now, there have been a ton of very helpful communities online about building, tweaking, and overclocking, though my own adventures in overclocking always seem to end with me putting all the settings back to stock.

You too? Overclocking, to me, is another game that PC builders play. Who can get the highest score (clock) on their parts without melting a hole through their case. If everything is overclocked, you will see a performance increase. If you get a solid overclock on your GFX cards, you might see an increase, as well.

Usually the people doing this though already have hardware that trounces any application they intend to run, so it becomes a matter of bragging rights versus the actual need.

I'm lazy, I would rather just buy a new one when the old gets too old for my taste.

I just can never seem to get my processor more than 10% or so OCed, and the extra hear and power don't seem worth it for 233Mhz, so I just back it off... I got it 20% with a moderate OC on my gfx card by loosening up the RAM timings, but it only was stable for a couple hours at a time, so that wasn't worth it either

 

[Anniko]

I just can never seem to get my processor more than 10% or so OCed, and the extra hear and power don't seem worth it for 233Mhz, so I just back it off... I got it 20% with a moderate OC on my gfx card by loosening up the RAM timings, but it only was stable for a couple hours at a time, so that wasn't worth it either

If you're trying to overclock on stock cooling, then that explains it. Stock cooling isn't meant to support overclocked hardware. Try some aftermarket stuff and you should be able to get a higher clock.

 

[clarinetJWD]

I just can never seem to get my processor more than 10% or so OCed, and the extra hear and power don't seem worth it for 233Mhz, so I just back it off... I got it 20% with a moderate OC on my gfx card by loosening up the RAM timings, but it only was stable for a couple hours at a time, so that wasn't worth it either

If you're trying to overclock on stock cooling, then that explains it. Stock cooling isn't meant to support overclocked hardware. Try some aftermarket stuff and you should be able to get a higher clock.

Oh, believe me, I know...and while I'm not using the worlds greatest cooling, I do have a massive Masscool tower cooler with 92mm fan inside (The fan doesn't even turn on at stock speeds...ever)

the gfx card is stock cooling, but I haven't tried to do much there...

 

[Clain]

Lots and lots of words

Aware of all of that, but I avoid AMD like the plague. I love a good tech debate though

My 8800GTS (G92) handled Crysis on high at 1280x1050 fairly well. Chugged during the heavy parts, but it got through it good.

Secondly, how well does Phenom Overclock? Intel has proven to be amazing overclockers.

sry for taking so long to get back to you

the phenom is rather easy to overclock, and can be managed with CPU clocker on the fly, very handy if u need to use as little power as possable (plus less power = less heat)
it can be made even better if you get a black edition, which boasts an unlocked multiplyer

im currently using a Phenom 9850 Black Edition, standard clock speed is 2.5 Ghz, currently running @ 1.5 Ghz and in gaming it vairies upon the game, the most ive clocked that bad boy is about 3.1 Ghz

there are all sorts of advantages in running an AMD Phenom (im not going to list them all but a quick browse on the net will find them), but the key thing is that AMD systems are designed to be used in conjunction with other systems (as uppossed to intels power brick)

basicly if i was building a server or a games machine ind go with AMD, but if i wanted a cheap computer that still has some power to it id go Intel

 

[Cerebrium]

Well done to whoever made this thread.

I'd like to add a point of my own:

Not everyone who plays WoW is a socially inept man-child.

 

[Anarchemitis]

Any stereotype or assumption is usually narrow-minded, which I may add.

 

[ReepNeep]

the phenom is rather easy to overclock, and can be managed with CPU clocker on the fly, very handy if u need to use as little power as possable (plus less power = less heat)
it can be made even better if you get a black edition, which boasts an unlocked multiplyer

im currently using a Phenom 9850 Black Edition, standard clock speed is 2.5 Ghz, currently running @ 1.5 Ghz and in gaming it vairies upon the game, the most ive clocked that bad boy is about 3.1 Ghz

The only ones that overclock at all are the Black Edition chips specifically because of the unlocked multiplier and even then you aren't going to get more than a 30% OC out of them. Phenom pitches a royal fit if you try to OC it by raising the system bus frequency. If you do it that way they crap out after a 5-10% overclock, if that.

there are all sorts of advantages in running an AMD Phenom (im not going to list them all but a quick browse on the net will find them), but the key thing is that AMD systems are designed to be used in conjunction with other systems (as uppossed to intels power brick)

Could you translate this into something intelligible? Right now it makes no sense.

Basically if I was building a server or a games machine I'd go with AMD, but if I wanted a cheap computer that still has some power to it I'd go Intel.

You've got it backwards. The old A64 X2 chips are what you would want for a cheap rig. Intel chips are by and large more expensive and faster. Phenom's niche for the home user is as a cheaper alternative to Intel's generaly speaking faster quadcores. Its gone back to the way it was in the K6-2 vs. P2/P3 days with Intel owning 'performance' and AMD owning 'price/performance'.

 

[CriMs0nC0bra]

Everyone is capable of building their own gaming computer. Even if you don't know jack about how they work, and you've never seen the insides before.
You just need to LEARN. That's all. It's really quite simple, and it'll pay off in the end.

Go down to the library and borrow a couple books on computers, google any questions you have. Read articles in wikipedia on things you need to know.
If I want something, I usually learn how to do it/get it myself. I don't like taking the lazy route out. And building a computer is really.. not hard.

It's just the majority of people don't want to do something themselves, and are willing to pay tons more money to have someone else do things for them.