Mmm, steak.
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I don't know. I guess all that pain that they're in could be a bit of a give away. Just sayen'Puzzles said:
...Housebroken Lunatic said:
Firstly, you're talking science fiction. Secondly, when isn't your health important? You just gonna chug down coke and pepsi and cram down processed meat until you die? I've mentioned that I've been looking further into health. Trying to satisfy all my needs has made me feel a lot better (I heard that crap all the time, but honestly, I feel like I should be able to climb a mountain or something). Meat has next to no need in it all, but if you do want to have it, why use the mutant kind? Even a small amount of IGF-1 is bad for you.
Thirdly, I feel your point can be countered with this user:
I'm glad there is a sane member here. It's all about the money. I don't think the meat industries give a crap about the cows or the environment, just the $$$ that comes out the other side.Monkfish Acc. said:
Well, Larenxis and I only buy organic and local. After researching too much on this subject I've grown scared of what could be thrown down our gobs.Labyrinth said:
But you are too true (again). I've found out, people enjoy they ignorant and don't give a shit. I was hoping if I could direct it more personally at their health, the environment or some big company then maybe they might take a peek on behind the scenes. Still... nothing.
The escapist makes me sad to be a member sometimes.
Increase risks of cancer and banning through many countries as well as animal cruelty and inhumane tests Vs Dying of starvation.Semitendon said:
Okay, Mr Happy. Can I call you Trigger? You're the exact person I was looking for.TriGGeR_HaPPy said:Newspeak (and the idea behind it), anyone?Puzzles said:
Grats if you pick up on the reference.
I'm personally a bit torn on the subject. But in terms of specifically looking at cows...
Well, as a soon-to-be poor uni student, I'm going to go for the cheaper choice (whenever I get steak anyway).
However, when I can afford it, I'ma go for the organic Scotch Fillet, thank you very much.
Yummm...
The problem is usually the cost, though...
If I can find a cheap, organic steak, then it's not a problem.
But for a few years at least, I'm simply going with what's cheapest, whatever that may be...
Before I start, I don't want to change your views on meat. Eat it all. Unlike a fanatic I realize meat is good, tasty, and some people need it. But! As a major part of our diets it can easily be substituted. If you start looking, you can give up having some cheap steak for a week while buying some alternatives (even canned food).
On the verge of having a short amount of cash, if need be, I would give up having chocolates and other things so I can buy Free Range eggs because of the way I feel about the subject. I don't think I would want to buy battery, and if I had only enough money for battery, I would not buy it.
What I'm trying to say is, keep eating meat, but you don't have to always do it every week. Their are cheaper alternatives that can provide more for your body. The steak that you do eat can be a massive pickmeup every so often.
Don't generalize people into saying there is no reason to care. Why do you think people openly fight about the issue? 'Cause they don't care?Housebroken Lunatic said:
Hehe, mind if I use that one?bluepilot said:
I don't think you understand the word, problem. Those 139 people who died was because of immoral practices.Housebroken Lunatic said:
Hey, that's funny. The first hundred times I heard it.Shatteredtroll said:
Mind reading the topic and then getting back to me?kawligia said:
Some people do care. Actually, a lot of people do care. People aren't and refuse to pull their weight and it's why a lot of people are angry.Spacelord said:
That's the thing, they weren't sure if it was safe to eat. People were fired and sued as letters were hidden. The main company that modified the growth hormones openly came out admitting that they didn't care about the health issues as it wasn't their problem. Countries had banned the use of the hormones and altered milk and meat as there is a risk of increases of cancer, etc. All that crap they're putting in the cow is going in you.Macgyvercas said:
It's the reasons I went veggie as well. It's all fucked up. People claim to believe that the meat industry can feed everyone. In fact it's doing a lot more damage to the environment then it is helping people.O277 said:
...PurpleRain said:
Firstly, you're talking science fiction. Secondly, when isn't your health important? You just gonna chug down coke and pepsi and cram down processed meat until you die? I've mentioned that I've been looking further into health.
[/quote]
Lets see... Genetic disorder to stop all pain/feeling : http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/12/061213-pain.html
Or, if you would prefer, we could take the genetic material encoding the...mosquito brain, I suppose, put it in the cow-BOOM-virtually braindead cow. Most people don't have a problem squishing mosquitoes, so no problem. And a meatplant, caused by taking some of the cellular structure-what would cause taste and texture-from a cow and putting it in some fast growing tree would cause steak to be generated by the buckets, at virtually no cost to anyone...also, it isn't "processed", it is "artificial". It could, theoretically taste as good -or better- than current steak.
Also, can't seem to get the quotes to work...
Well in that case, why would we eat just beef? What if we found more nutrients in other animals and we breed them to the extent we do to cows. Dogs, people, seals, mice? What is humane and what boundries should we stay behind?The3Apocalypses said:
Purps, you have balls for saying that. Last time I did something like this (same thing but on the topic of chickens) I got flamed the hell out of me to the point where I just deleted any quote PMs from that thread.
Anyway, I -- and by 'I' I mean 'my dad', not being old enough to live on my own yet -- get free-range organic only and since GM's been banned in Europe I don't usually worry about that. As well as that about both my mum and my sisters are vegetarien and my dad often cooks vegetarian as well so I don't usually need to think about that.
Most companies -- not just food and farming -- will be working solely for a profit and go for the most effective outcome (like Khell said in his rant 6 ways to save the world, that will never f'ing happen...[footnote]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.139163[/footnote]) as that will gain the largest profit. Major corporation in general is fucked up.
But as for what you have said here, I have to honestly agree. Whilst not being vegetarian like you, [user]O277[/user], [user]Larenxis[/user] and other people in the world; there are some morals I do stick to: This is one of them.
However, I do agree with Lab as well on this:
But because of all these things and more, people just no longer care. About half the posts here prove that.
Anyway, I -- and by 'I' I mean 'my dad', not being old enough to live on my own yet -- get free-range organic only and since GM's been banned in Europe I don't usually worry about that. As well as that about both my mum and my sisters are vegetarien and my dad often cooks vegetarian as well so I don't usually need to think about that.
Most companies -- not just food and farming -- will be working solely for a profit and go for the most effective outcome (like Khell said in his rant 6 ways to save the world, that will never f'ing happen...[footnote]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.139163[/footnote]) as that will gain the largest profit. Major corporation in general is fucked up.
But as for what you have said here, I have to honestly agree. Whilst not being vegetarian like you, [user]O277[/user], [user]Larenxis[/user] and other people in the world; there are some morals I do stick to: This is one of them.
However, I do agree with Lab as well on this:
People don't care about where the food comes from as long as it ends up in front of them: it could've come from the moon and they would still eat it with as much joy as otherwise. Also doesn't help that a lot of Escapists stopped caring about this stuff when there was a massive surge of threads about various things PeTA have done, usually ending in flame wars and arguments between users.Labyrinth said:
But because of all these things and more, people just no longer care. About half the posts here prove that.
You mislead me Purple! I thought this was a steak appreciation thread!
OT:If we didn't need them for food, cows would probably be extinct right now
OT:If we didn't need them for food, cows would probably be extinct right now
I am okay with eating seals and mice, don't see any reason not to (other than fat in the seals and very little meat in mice) but we have come to, more or less, a cultural alliance with dogs, but I still think some people would eat them. People are different, I don't know why. I could eat meatplant of humans, though, if it was cheap enough...just to try it...PurpleRain said:
In all honesty? I'm not going to go looking for organic or free-range beef. If it is well and good but if it's not so long as it tastes good and the chef didn't burn it to a crisp or leave it raw I'm happy.
See now you are probably thinking "You are lazy and need to know what you are putting in your mouth". Again, I couldn't care less so long as it tastes good and that's not a cop-out. That's my defence in this discussion, with all the other problems in the world I'm not too fazed about the hardships of my slab soft,browny stuff covered in mushroom sauce sitting on my plate...
Goddammit now I'm hungry.
See now you are probably thinking "You are lazy and need to know what you are putting in your mouth". Again, I couldn't care less so long as it tastes good and that's not a cop-out. That's my defence in this discussion, with all the other problems in the world I'm not too fazed about the hardships of my slab soft,browny stuff covered in mushroom sauce sitting on my plate...
Goddammit now I'm hungry.
Lameness, Foot disease, stress, bloatedness...Two of those are medical problems that, in most farms, are taken care of immediately as signs are recognized, which I guarantee is prevented more often than not. Stress--oh, yes, cow stress, how poor for the dear things. I looked up bovine stress, and you know what came up?PurpleRain said:
This:
http://www.officeplayground.com/Cow-Stress-Toy-P62.aspx
D'awwww, aren't they cute? Anyways, back to the point--can you tell the difference, looking at two cows side by side, one from a pen, the other free-range, which is which? No, no you cannot. And if there was a smart-ass answer in there somewhere of "oh, one's in a pen, duhr-hur", then you've got yourself a big knot on your head, thanks very much, and it's impeding your rational thinking. You should get it looked at by a professional, if such is the case, preferably a professional with a big 'ole whackin' mallet that they like to affectionately, if not a bit disturbingly, refer to as "Miss Mary".
Look, I get it. Humanity towards animals, all that lovely jazz. It makes sense up until you realize that we're where we are for a reason. If all of our cattle were free range, we'd have to devote much more agricultural space to be graze-land, and it turns out we're starting to run low on available land as is, between global climate shifts, droughts in places both accustomed and foreign to sparse vegetation, and the sprawl of industrialization and suburban housing projects. To rely only on what can naturally be birthed means a diminished supply, and that's a lot of burgers that suddenly are in demand without enough supply, and that's something that the modern times cannot do without. Crops, eggs, poultry, livestock, coffee, veggies--they're being genetically modified because they need the yeild and sustainability, not just the income. Sure, it sucks, seeing hundreds of cows stuck in pens (though it doesn't suck all that much, apart from the smell as you drive past), but have you ever really been near cows? One's inclined to believe they don't notice much.
Oh, and if you're suggesting that humans and cattle are synonymous, I'll gladly approve that message with fork brandished high. If not, however, then a second thought comes to mind: The Juvenalian satire of one Jonathan Swift, and his {i]A Modest Proposal[/i]. If you're not familiar with it, I suggest looking into it.
And I'm still inclined to believe that you don't spend much time near cows. You kinda remind me of those blokes who preach on about 'this Revolution is what The People Want!' to a honkin' great mob, and get them all riled up, when the people in question are not even present at the rally to suggest that what they'd really like is nothing more than a nice sit-down in a comfy chair without anyone pestering them for an hour or so.
Thank you for both ignoring what I have written and the argument presented and making a stupid response (when I say stupid I mean actual dictionary term and not a verbal attack on you).BehattedWanderer said:
You can turn off that quote inbox thingy. It annoys me so I turned mine off.Spacelord said:
Anyway, I thought you were addressing my previous statement about arguing with activists and nothing more. I was replying to your paragraph under it saying how some people care when others don't. Nothing more.
*Sigh*andrat said:
Please reread my post. It's the ongoing effects and what choices you have and not about the stake on your plate. There is major environmental issues and gene splicing that has ongoing effects after the cow is dead.
Great post. I really enjoyed reading through it.Zombie_Fish said:
Huh, I don't hear that much on these forums. Thanks, your OP was nice to read as well.PurpleRain said:
You're most welcome!PurpleRain said:
Oh, you're being sarcastic. Oooooh, look at you, pulling out dictionary definitions! Ooooh, Spooky!
In all seriousnes, yes, penned animals don't have the same experience, they have a tendency towards disease if not looked after properly, and they are treated only moderately well, without the joy and freshness of being out in a field to spend their days. They're genetically modified with minerals and chemicals to make them more virile and produce more milk/meat which is unnatural. Monsanto, a big player in this alteration, is evil for doing so.
Apart from the last bit, where am I ignoring what you've had to argue? I've argued that they are cared after to fend off most disease (most of which, among others much worse, can still be acquired as free range, and go untreated for much longer). I've touched that the genetic alteration is necessary in the modern world with the quantity of need we have developed, and that were it not for genetic modification, we would have had to abandon the cow as a food source completely for the first time since domestication (you know, back when we broke them of the free range habit so that they could be a reliable source of sustenance as opposed to foraging and hunting). Were it not for us needing so much use from the cow, and this part is sad to say, the cow would most likely have gone extinct a good time ago. Here's me, making an actual response (albeit, one full of sarcasm) to your argument, and then there's you, dismissing it off hand, saying I'm not even listening to your argument. I'm tempted to ask whether you've been taking into consideration our [those of us supporting an actual counter view, not just repeating "Hur, meat is good!" ad nauseam] arguments, instead of instantly reading them with a distaste in your throat, and countering with how we're just babbling at you.
Now, the point I've so subtly made thus far is this: sometimes, while the shit we do sucks, it's a bit necessary. Monsanto knows this, though admittedly they get a bit sue happy, and forgot that they were initially there as a company to provide innovation in processes, minerals, and agriculture. While yes, that makes them douchebags in the highest regard, they still provide the nutrients, compounds, and genetic enrichment supplies that are feeding the world. The crops and livestock might not be the best thing they could possibly do, but without their help, our worldwide mortality and starvation rate would skyrocket (though, on the bright side, our obesity rate would plummet). Producing hormones for livestock that yield more milk, or more baby cows, or an easier supply of meat is synonymous to producing strains of crops that are resistant to cold and insect feeding, produce more yield, and require less water to grow up steadily.
Yes, it blows what we do to them. But given the fact that what they produce is more necessary than shoes--it's something that has to be done.
And you still haven't answered my question as to whether or not you actually spend any time at all near cows, penned or free range or sky diving, what have you.
my thing is, yeah, okay that's not nice, but it's and ANIMAL, key word there. when was the last time it paid you bail? when have you seen a cow deciding what kind of coffee it wants at starbucks? they lack a soul. they only act on instinct. thats what makes us different.
See here's my thing, in all honesty I don't care how the animal gets treated before it ends up on my plate. As long as it's not super drugged up ( I check for that), then for all I care the cow could have been kept upside down until it died.
It's not that I don't care about animals (I like me some penguins and pandas), it's just that if it's going to be die and be eaten by me anyways then whatever happens before that is not a concern of mine (besides the extra drugs added in).
Whenever I ask my vegetarian roommates why they don't eat meat I always get back the same answer (besides the whole: "It's healthier crap that I don't believe), they are saving an animal. In reality they aren't, animals are butchered in large chunks and more often than not they kill more than they need to. Whatever doesn't get bought up they just dispose of. So really it's kind of like just letting an animal go to waste, which is (in my opinion) a pretty bad thing.
It's not that I don't care about animals (I like me some penguins and pandas), it's just that if it's going to be die and be eaten by me anyways then whatever happens before that is not a concern of mine (besides the extra drugs added in).
Whenever I ask my vegetarian roommates why they don't eat meat I always get back the same answer (besides the whole: "It's healthier crap that I don't believe), they are saving an animal. In reality they aren't, animals are butchered in large chunks and more often than not they kill more than they need to. Whatever doesn't get bought up they just dispose of. So really it's kind of like just letting an animal go to waste, which is (in my opinion) a pretty bad thing.
The whole organic, free range, locally grown thing is mostly just pure bullshit. The only people that can directly appreciate this are the people that actually raise the cattle or grow the fruits and vegetables for themselves because they are fresh in the most literal sense of the term. A carrot right out of the ground or a steak that was a living brething cow just the day before tastes much, much different then anything you get at the supermarket.
The thing about that though, is most of the human population doesn't have the luxury for truly fresh foods. Even stores that celebrate being completely organic have nothing different then your local chain supermarket, escept higher prices. The only reason these places do so well is because being "organic" is nothing more then a fad and all it does is make people feel better about themselves. It almost like a religion to some people.
And I really don't give a shit about cows or other animals used for meat. We are going to eat them, not take them home to the kids. It's pointless geting attached to something you are going to eat anyways.
The thing about that though, is most of the human population doesn't have the luxury for truly fresh foods. Even stores that celebrate being completely organic have nothing different then your local chain supermarket, escept higher prices. The only reason these places do so well is because being "organic" is nothing more then a fad and all it does is make people feel better about themselves. It almost like a religion to some people.
And I really don't give a shit about cows or other animals used for meat. We are going to eat them, not take them home to the kids. It's pointless geting attached to something you are going to eat anyways.