Mmm, steak.

[Berethond]

I'm going to be brutally honest.

I used to care about the animals, I really did. I wished people would treat them humanely and all that jazz.

Then came along a group of people at my school (un)affectionately reformed to collectively as "The Vegans". I had to sit through day after day of their unending diatribes against the meat industry and such. Every. Day. Having their presumptuous ideals shoved down my throat like the animals they wanted to "free." Somewhat understandably (or so I feel) I was extremely angry. So angry, I decided that if these were the people defending these animals, then I wanted absolutely nothing to do with it. They alienated me from their cause so thoroughly that I just didn't care any more.

Also, there's is literally nothing I can do. At all.

I also have an issue with the word "Organic" being used to describe plants/animals grown without any human-made products. Organic just means it contains carbon. Even non-organic plants are organic. But that's for a different thread.

 

[Artemis923]

This is why I turned Veggie, the meat industry is a joke, its a holocaust every day and it sickens me. I don't see why we can't just eat the crops we feed to the cows, would pretty much stop world hunger at the same time.

Because meat tastes good.

Know this, all you veggie-fiends...for every animal you don't eat, I will eat THREE.

 

[Jinx_Dragon]

Monsanto is the prime example of a organisation that puts profit over everything else. Sure, we all know the purpose of corporate bodies are to enact the maximum amount of profit with the minimal amount of responsibility but Monsanto takes the cake. It would openly shoot you in the street if it thought in doing so it could make a buck....

I'm for Genetic Modification, the benefits are shockingly high with minimal down sides if used properly. The bit that worries me is it is companies like Monsanto that are doing all the testing, patenting and supplying of GM foodstuff. These companies are run not by the scientists doing the actual work, but by some rich fat arse and a handful of richer share holders who care about one thing: increasing their gains. It has created a company that doesn't care if it jeopardises the worlds food supply if in doing so it can force people to become dependant on them.

It is like a corporate evil overlord plan actually: Get rid of the naturally growing crops and all other forms of competition and then jack the prices up to insane levels to bleed every cent out of the starving.

No seriously, take a look at terminator genes one day... curtsy of Monsanto! Even worse they had managed to set it up so that you where guilty of 'patent violation' if they contaminated your crop... so you couldn't even sue them!

 

[Jinx_Dragon]

For all those vegetarians out there: As a rural boy living in a heavily farmed area of Australia I can tell you that factory farming exists for plants too. Close growing confinement increases the spread of disease and generates a great deal of health related problems to the plants. Then there are all sorts of poisons and chemicals used to do things like ensure the ripening time is when the crop hits the market right through to supplementing the 'diet' to get better and bigger yeilds. Then you have to realise that many farms no longer do crop rotation, needing to produce food to feed us instead of growing plants that don't produce a profitable yeild of anything to 'feed the soil.' This means even more chemicals are dumped onto plants, to try and counter the effects of bleeding the soil dry of nutrients and without would ensure the plants all fail within a few growing cycles.

This has caused so much environmental damage it is actually staggering to think on! From killing Australia's largest water ways to damaging the greatest reef on earth, the amount of damage caused by factory farming of plants is just disgusting.

Organic farming you might wonder? Well they still FACTORY FARM those plants, just use plant based fertilises to try and do the very same thing the chemical ones do. No help there...

This is why I am for Genetic Modification - In short we can simply produce crops that won't require so much damaging chemicals, that won't be blighted from the close growing conditions and will produce greater yields in smaller concentrations of area. Without this tool being utilised we will require a mass culling just to ensure there is enough food for the people in the 'western' world, let alone those living in poor poverty stricken countries that already die massively of starvation.

I just wish I could trust the companies producing said crops not to throw in some environmentally damaging whammy designed for greater profit generation.

And in closing this is directed to the 'we are better then you' vegetarian crowd: Your likely eating those plants while they are still alive, think on that! There is no such thing as a death free existence, it sucks but it is the truth, so stop pouncing around as if you are living one and some how better then the rest of us. Delusions do not make you better.

http://www.ranting-gryphon.com/Rants/2rant-vegetarians.mp3

 

[TriGGeR_HaPPy]

The cow doesn't neccessarily know any other world besides its farm/cage life, what makes you think it has any idea it is being treated badly.

Newspeak (and the idea behind it), anyone?
Grats if you pick up on the reference.

I'm personally a bit torn on the subject. But in terms of specifically looking at cows...
Well, as a soon-to-be poor uni student, I'm going to go for the cheaper choice (whenever I get steak anyway ).

However, when I can afford it, I'ma go for the organic Scotch Fillet, thank you very much.
Yummm...

The problem is usually the cost, though...
If I can find a cheap, organic steak, then it's not a problem.
But for a few years at least, I'm simply going with what's cheapest, whatever that may be...

Okay, Mr Happy. Can I call you Trigger? You're the exact person I was looking for.
Before I start, I don't want to change your views on meat. Eat it all. Unlike a fanatic I realize meat is good, tasty, and some people need it. But! As a major part of our diets it can easily be substituted. If you start looking, you can give up having some cheap steak for a week while buying some alternatives (even canned food).
On the verge of having a short amount of cash, if need be, I would give up having chocolates and other things so I can buy Free Range eggs because of the way I feel about the subject. I don't think I would want to buy battery, and if I had only enough money for battery, I would not buy it.

What I'm trying to say is, keep eating meat, but you don't have to always do it every week. Their are cheaper alternatives that can provide more for your body. The steak that you do eat can be a massive pickmeup every so often.

Nice work on the formalities there. (Fyi, just say Trigger. People say it's easier, but more importantly, being called "HaPPy" just sounds... weird. )


Anyway. Quickly throwing it out there: When the time comes that I can finally afford it, I will be buying steak once or twice a week (and other meat during the week). But (as previously stated) I was planning on buying organic for the most part anyway...

However, otherwise... Effectively, I agree with you.
During Uni, canned/packaged food will probably be the primary part of my diet. And as you said, the meat that I do end up getting will probably be a bit of a luxury anyway, so it will most likely end up as the "massive pickmeup" that you described.

 

[Timotei]

I don't care what they do to the cow or what happens to it. Just as long as it ends up on my plate medium rare with a side of fries.

 

[PurpleRain]

my thing is, yeah, okay that's not nice, but it's and ANIMAL, key word there. when was the last time it paid you bail? when have you seen a cow deciding what kind of coffee it wants at starbucks? they lack a soul. they only act on instinct. thats what makes us different.

People are animals. We act on instinct. Umm... I'm really not getting it.

See here's my thing, in all honesty I don't care how the animal gets treated before it ends up on my plate. As long as it's not super drugged up ( I check for that), then for all I care the cow could have been kept upside down until it died.
It's not that I don't care about animals (I like me some penguins and pandas), it's just that if it's going to be die and be eaten by me anyways then whatever happens before that is not a concern of mine (besides the extra drugs added in).
Whenever I ask my vegetarian roommates why they don't eat meat I always get back the same answer (besides the whole: "It's healthier crap that I don't believe), they are saving an animal. In reality they aren't, animals are butchered in large chunks and more often than not they kill more than they need to. Whatever doesn't get bought up they just dispose of. So really it's kind of like just letting an animal go to waste, which is (in my opinion) a pretty bad thing.

On your last argument, if all the vegetarians began eating meat again, there would be a massive rise in meat sales, thus the need to make more meat. I didn't do it to save the animals, but I understand that it does help keep the industry down if people don't eat meat.

The whole organic, free range, locally grown thing is mostly just pure bullshit.

Hold on a sec with the locally grown. How is that bullshit. Most distributors or butchers should tell you where the meat has come from. This at least keeps the transportation down. You can also find out if it had been farmed killed which is better yet again.

I also have an issue with the word "Organic" being used to describe plants/animals grown without any human-made products. Organic just means it contains carbon. Even non-organic plants are organic. But that's for a different thread.

Organic basically means: Reared without the routine use of antibiotics and without the use of growth hormones, and generally fed a healthy diet. In the terms of cattle at least.

This is why I turned Veggie, the meat industry is a joke, its a holocaust every day and it sickens me. I don't see why we can't just eat the crops we feed to the cows, would pretty much stop world hunger at the same time.

Because meat tastes good.

Know this, all you veggie-fiends...for every animal you don't eat, I will eat THREE.

HAR! I laughed and fell off my seat, then cried because I will never be as funny as you.

Nice work on the formalities there. (Fyi, just say Trigger. People say it's easier, but more importantly, being called "HaPPy" just sounds... weird. )


Anyway. Quickly throwing it out there: When the time comes that I can finally afford it, I will be buying steak once or twice a week (and other meat during the week). But (as previously stated) I was planning on buying organic for the most part anyway...

However, otherwise... Effectively, I agree with you.
During Uni, canned/packaged food will probably be the primary part of my diet. And as you said, the meat that I do end up getting will probably be a bit of a luxury anyway, so it will most likely end up as the "massive pickmeup" that you described.

Heh. Tonight I managed to make rice without chocking myself on it and had some canned Indian pea sauce thing on top. I think living like this is going to at least make me a competent chef. And by that, I mean not suicide on my cooking.
But yeah, I can see adding even small amount of meat would be a cheaper prospect again.

I don't care what they do to the cow or what happens to it. Just as long as it ends up on my plate medium rare with a side of fries.

I'll say it again:

Please reread my post. It's the ongoing effects and what choices you have and not about the stake on your plate. There is major environmental issues and gene splicing that has ongoing effects after the cow is dead.

 

[Ultrajoe]

I actually do a great deal of research into all the meat I buy, mostly because I have it blue (As raw as humanly possible). If I don't know what i'm eating, I can make myself violently ill, so tracking down which moo to chew is a habit of mine. From locale, to slaughter method to diet and how they are penned, it all makes the difference between me eating beautiful tender meat and me eating... poison.

And you know the funny thing? The more healthy/reliable the meat is, the more ethical the treatment of the animals they produce. In my experience as a consumer, it's just been fact that, put simply; Healthier animals produce healthier meat. That might be because of the standards the producer enforces, the environment or simply good old voodoo (I blame/attribute everything on Voodoo), but it's something to the credit of shopping for the best option that you often get the best option.

Obvious, really.

 

[PurpleRain]

I actually do a great deal of research into all the meat I buy, mostly because I have it blue (As raw as humanly possible). If I don't know what i'm eating, I can make myself violently ill, so tracking down which moo to chew is a habit of mine. From locale, to slaughter method to diet and how they are penned, it all makes the difference between me eating beautiful tender meat and me eating... poison.

And you know the funny thing? The more healthy/reliable the meat is, the more ethical the treatment of the animals they produce. In my experience as a consumer, it's just been fact that, put simply; Healthier animals produce healthier meat. That might be because of the standards the producer enforces, the environment or simply good old voodoo (I blame/attribute everything on Voodoo), but it's something to the credit of shopping for the best option that you often get the best option.

Obvious, really.

As sneered by another forum user, I would imagine the stress put onto these animals as well a the diet would majorly contribute to the quality of the meat.

Seriously Ultrajoe, I keep finding more and more reasons why I should tattoo your name on me somewhere. On my 21st (2011) I'll be back in Australia and damned if I don't meat up with you!

See what I did there. It's a pun. This thread is about... mea... *Cries*

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

...

Firstly, you're talking science fiction. Secondly, when isn't your health important? You just gonna chug down coke and pepsi and cram down processed meat until you die? I've mentioned that I've been looking further into health. Trying to satisfy all my needs has made me feel a lot better (I heard that crap all the time, but honestly, I feel like I should be able to climb a mountain or something). Meat has next to no need in it all, but if you do want to have it, why use the mutant kind? Even a small amount of IGF-1 is bad for you.

Yes, it's science fiction.. NOW. If you mentioned the idea of heating food using microwaves 70 years ago people would've said it was just science fiction too you know. And if you speak with many geneticists and biologists out there they can tell you how much progress could be made with genetic manipulation and the only thing stopping them is these idiotic "moral" laws, and religious nutcases claiming that "man shouldn't play god".

Then there's greenpeace and you who try to claim that genetically manipulated food is "poison" to some extent, taking advantage of the fact that not every person is educated within the field of biology. And most of the time you aren't either, you just swallow whatever political propaganda your nutcase figureheads feed you with, like a crackwhore swallowing cum from a john.

Today's science fiction, could be tomorrows reality if it weren't for poorly eduated and squeamish people like you.

Now while I do agree that we are all entitled to our opinions, I do have a problem with people who actively stand in the way of progress. You are one of those people and if I can do ANYTHING to damage your cause then I will gladly do so.

As for my health, well I consider myself one of those people that don't find life worth living if I can't indulge in anything that's potentially bad for my health, be it alcohol, smoking, drugs, steak, fried potatoes, ketchup, coca cola, sex etc. I'd rather die at the age of 65 knowing that I've lived my life to it's full extent and experienced these oh so enjoyable aspects of it rather than live to being a 100 and only sustained myself on tofu and vegetables. That's my prerogative, and if you ever try to stand in the way of that I will destroy you.

Thirdly, I feel your point can be countered with this user:

No the point isn't countered in the slightest. While he/she is right that meat from happy and calm animals is of better quality, I don't see any reason to be squeamish about mutated meat as long as the mutations are something along the lines of what I've presented. No one would know the difference when it is served on a plate anyway.

Don't generalize people into saying there is no reason to care. Why do you think people openly fight about the issue? 'Cause they don't care?

No but because they are imbecilles.

PETA, Greenpeace, you name it. Just a bunch of young, poorly educated (at least within the relevant fields of what they are protesting that is) kids who do what they do because they want to find an identity, and some adult schmucks at the top who capitalize on using these kids to further their own twisted ideals.

It's the same thing with the idiots who oppose nuclear power. Most of the time they don't even know how nuclear power works or have the slightest form of education on the subject, yet still they oppose it just because some retard yells about what happened in Chernobyl more than 20 years ago.

There is no reason at all to respect the opinions of enviromentalists, health nuts or active vegans who aren't even educated within the topics they protest about.

I don't think you understand the word, problem. Those 139 people who died was because of immoral practices.

They died, because they had the misfortune of either being genetically predisposed to suffering really ill effects of the mad cow disease, or because they had the misfortune of eating the very meat from an animal that had a mutated strain of the virus in question that was more lethal than the normal one (that doesn't normally transfers to humans from meat at all).

They could just as well be struck by lightning.

A problem is when the killcount starts reaching up in hundreds of thousands. THEN we can speak about a "problem" or an "epidemic". Until then, it is nothing short of bad luck. More people die in traffic EVERY DAY than that...

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

Or, if you would prefer, we could take the genetic material encoding the...mosquito brain, I suppose, put it in the cow-BOOM-virtually braindead cow. Most people don't have a problem squishing mosquitoes, so no problem. And a meatplant, caused by taking some of the cellular structure-what would cause taste and texture-from a cow and putting it in some fast growing tree would cause steak to be generated by the buckets, at virtually no cost to anyone...also, it isn't "processed", it is "artificial". It could, theoretically taste as good -or better- than current steak.

Exactly.

And with the braindead cow or artificial "meatplant" could be pumped with drugs as to make it feel happy and comfortable all it's life, making the meat less sinewy and bitter as it tend to get with distressed and unhappy animals. Also electrical shocks could be used to stimulate muscle growth so that the muscles don't atrophy due to the organism's brainless state (atrophied meet don't taste very good and it doesn't produce much meat either).


I wouldn't mind eating meat from a creature like that. In fact I'd probably feel more comfortable eating meat when thinking of such a creature rather than thinking that the meat Im eating came from a living being with it's own thoughts (although primitive) and that could feel pain and distress.

But in the end, it wouldn't matter. If people weren't told where the meat came from they wouldn't really care.

And this sort of genetic manipulation and forced mutation isn't very far into the future. In fact, biologists and geneticists could make quantum leaps within weeks or months if they were given free reins to do actual research. But they don't have free reins, since they are obliged to follow some idiotic "moral laws", that superstitious and poorly educated people thought out.

Also, can't seem to get the quotes to work...

This is how you do it:

If I were to quote you, I'd copy and paste like this:

[**quote="The3Apocalypses" post="18.144953.3277441"]

Your text here

[**/quote]

Minus the asterisks (**).

So make sure the quoted text begin with the [quote="name" post=blablablabla] and then end's with a [**/quote]