MMO Developers, please stop remaking World of Warcraft...

[MetallicaRulez0]

I quit WoW because of an overarching sense of futility in everything I did. I love the PvP with a passion, but it eventually became clear that I was just grinding players for the sake of better gear so I could grind more players...to get more gear.

This isn't just WoW, it's every MMO. That's basically what makes an MMO what it is: the hamster wheel effect. You kill bad guys (or players) to get more gear to kill more bad guys (or players). Rinse and repeat, with a gear reset thrown in with every expansion. It's not the end goal that matters in an MMO, because there isn't an end. It's the journey, the social interaction and the gameplay that makes MMOs great. If you're playing an MMO with the sense that you can somehow "finish" it, then maybe you're playing the wrong genre.

 

[Kagim]

My thoughts on MMOs are as follows;

- Lack of variety. MMO developers need to stop making high fantasy. Anything in that genre is going to be compared to WoW, and pitting your new guns against the biggest and baddest in the genre is not a good idea. I think APB (and to an extent, stuff like Champions Online) takes a step in the right direction - other settings in which you can house the elements of MMO gaming. As a quick example, if someone were to make a decent mafia MMO, you could replace the word 'guilds' with 'families'.

- Stale faction/guild mechanics. I think more MMOs need to adopt the stance in which everyone starts as a neutral party, and chooses a side as they advance in level/the game. Having 'Horde vs Alliance' is getting a bit old, I want to make my decisions based on what I feel is right for my character as time goes on. I even think we should go so far as to allow player-made guilds and groups to create factions which an individual can earn reputation with. (Imagine that if you've killed x amount of Group 1, you become hostile to people in that Group, but because Group 2 are at war with Group 1, you gain their respect.

- MORE INFLUENCE ON THE GAME WORLD. This really, really bugs me. I hate killing the same bosses time and time again only for them to rise up the next week. If you want to use a reset function, why aren't there villages being attacked by orcs that take a week to rebuild if you don't defend it successfully, or even take it over and loot the villagers yourself? Maybe they move to a location the next week, or hire some tougher guards(meaning more loot inside!)

There needs to be a more dynamic world outside of the raid instances. What happened to random encounters? Does every dragon that attacks the land need to have a 20 page backstory? Did player housing suddenly become too difficult to control? I think an MMO that finally manages to make the players feel like they're having a large impact on the world will be a huge success. WoW's phasing doesn't cut it for me, neither did Warhammer's Sieges/Keeps.

MMO developers could save themselves work if they just put the fun in the player's hands. Their content can be amazing, but the best stories are the ones people make for themselves.

They had a game like that.

It was called Galaxies.

It was beautiful.

It wasn't popular.

Want to know why?

People thought it was confusing.

Apparently "Shoot a carbine to earn carbine exp to buy carbine skills" Was mind blowingly difficult.

You started neutral, and could join either faction whenever you wanted, if you wanted to at all. You could be neutral and take missions from either side as long as you kept the balance.

As well there were dozens of fringe groups where killing one made them like you and the other hate you.

Players built cities. All items in the game were created by players.

Players fought to take control of cities, both player built and Computer built alike.

This was all to confusing for people. So Eventually SoE turned it into WoW in space. Killing it, and spitting in the face of every Galaxy player.

OT:

MMO developers have to stop 'trying to kill WoW'. Its not going to happen. Make a game with the intent to be fun, not be a WoW killer and we will start seeing something new and cool. Until we see something new and fun were not going to leave WoW. We like the game. Were not going to leave it because you think you Know how to make WoW but better.

 

[IamQ]

Well, I quit WoW a long time ago, and the only game I could see dethroning it is The Old Republic, because of how nerdgasmic it is going to be.

Dark Millennium Online could also be a contender from what I've seen.

 

[Najos]

Except every time someone takes the time to develop a non-WoW MMO no one supports it. People want to play WoW and games like WoW. If you really don't like WoW then play Eve or check out Mortal Online, it just released and is probably terrible right now, but it has a lot of potential for awesome.

 

[brunt32]

I think that is the biggest problem with WoW. Sure you get a new world, etc, but after a while it stops being "fun" when all of your efforts are essentially made INSTANTLY obsolete.

Okay lets say they stop adding Level's but keep releasing content. (E.g. Raids and better loot; They will need to increase the loot as players won't play a game without progression) eventually the gear coming out will be overpower the gear you had two patches ago, and because everyone else has this gear they can 'Just run you in there raids to gear you up.' As it the most optimal way for them to get you into there group.

My point is they need to add progression and sadly adding progression does make time spent eariler on unmeaningful, but this is why I believe people who play the game for loot should stop playing. But people like me who play the game for the biggiest challenges and to see content and story, This is just the natural progress that every game should take to progress and adapt to its audience.

 

[brunt32]

My thoughts on MMOs are as follows;

- MORE INFLUENCE ON THE GAME WORLD. This really, really bugs me. I hate killing the same bosses time and time again only for them to rise up the next week. If you want to use a reset function, why aren't there villages being attacked by orcs that take a week to rebuild if you don't defend it successfully, or even take it over and loot the villagers yourself? Maybe they move to a location the next week, or hire some tougher guards(meaning more loot inside!)

There needs to be a more dynamic world outside of the raid instances. What happened to random encounters? Does every dragon that attacks the land need to have a 20 page backstory? Did player housing suddenly become too difficult to control? I think an MMO that finally manages to make the players feel like they're having a large impact on the world will be a huge success. WoW's phasing doesn't cut it for me, neither did Warhammer's Sieges/Keeps.

MMO developers could save themselves work if they just put the fun in the player's hands. Their content can be amazing, but the best stories are the ones people make for themselves.

This would be great but sadly the chances of this happening in a big mmo are very low.
I've played a couple of Small MMO's (I mean very small everyone knows everyone) where pretty much the whole game is run by the players therefor effected by players.

However what it sounds like your trying to get at would involve 'phasing' the world so on (To many people play World of warcraft for them to make one person change it for the 1000's of people on your server; Also to many people play it for them to 'phase' a different setting for everyone.) Phasing would be the same no matter how many times you did it but following the storyline making it more relistic. E.G. You have a quest to set alight a town, after finishing this quest the town is no longer there. This is used now in World of warcraft and is very bad as other people who are not up to my storyline cannot play in that zone for me as we cannot see or react to each other; and because these games are MMO the wrost mistake they could make is stopping people playing with others, Otherwise it just becomes a bad singleplayer RPG.

 

[Thurmer]

every time someone mentions the words 'WoW Killer,' god kills a puppy

 

[Gerhardt]

Unfortunately the one MMO that could have (and did) rival WoW was Final Fantasy XI. Sadly, for as amazing as this game could have been it was crushed under the weight of it's own ego and Square's endless hatred of it's player base.

The one big complaint I hear from the wow community these days come from the self-proclaimed 'hardcore' players that refer to anyone who wants a game to be fun and accessible as bads, scrubs, or casuals. But in the end, that's why I play wow and not FFXI. I don't want to be punched in the face every time I try to get something done.

For those that didn't play it, FFXI was incredibly immersive. Of course it comes as no surprise that Square did not fail to deliver on a great story, and the interface was nowhere near anything like WoW has. The problem that I had with it, and what lead to me abandoning it eventually, was how the content was like running into a brick wall at times. Once you hit the level cap (which took forever) you couldn't just jump into the end game content, you had to jump through a lot of hoops to get there. And they were cruel and hateful loops that despised you. And they were on fire.

But my point, and I did have one, was that it's possible to break the "wow mmo" stereotype and to do it successfully. The trick seems to be juggling a balance of keeping the content inviting enough for a varied range of players while not making it either so easy it becomes dull, or so hard and arbitrary that you might as well shoot yourself in the stomach with a nail gun and save the $15 a month.

I'm holding out hope for 40K Online. I also tried Warhammer Online for some time and the one thing that stuck with was how excellent the PVP was. I hope that 40k will be able to capture that feeling but on a much grander scale.

40K and Star Wars: Old Republic seem to be a the best contenders for getting into fisticuffs with the WoW titan right now, mainly because they are two venues that already have a history of wide interest which will make a great jumping off point for their respective launches.

TL;DR: When 40K/TOR comes out then by the end of the day we'll have a wedding, or a hanging.
either way we oughtta have a lot of fun, right?

 

[likalaruku]

I liked the Runes of Magic WoW clone. It had less people, a less awful character design, & it was free.

 

[DarkDain]

Lots of WoW clones are successful though, i'm always amazed at how many people are in each online game i try out. What i really want to see is a REAL platform mmorpg, not more maplestory. And a first person mmorpg, make it instance/dungeon based if u have too, dont need 500 people on the screen anyways. Make a fantasy Mount and Blade mmorpg...

 

[Jinjiro]

*snip*

They had a game like that.

It was called Galaxies.

It was beautiful.

It wasn't popular.

Want to know why?

People thought it was confusing.

Apparently "Shoot a carbine to earn carbine exp to buy carbine skills" Was mind blowingly difficult.

You started neutral, and could join either faction whenever you wanted, if you wanted to at all. You could be neutral and take missions from either side as long as you kept the balance.

As well there were dozens of fringe groups where killing one made them like you and the other hate you.

Players built cities. All items in the game were created by players.

Players fought to take control of cities, both player built and Computer built alike.

This was all to confusing for people. So Eventually SoE turned it into WoW in space. Killing it, and spitting in the face of every Galaxy player.

I remember it well and miss it dearly. It's why The Old Republic has a LOT to live up to. I loved SWG and I didn't even get a chance to really get into it before they took a dump on it.

 

[Kagim]

I remember it well and miss it dearly. It's why The Old Republic has a LOT to live up to. I loved SWG and I didn't even get a chance to really get into it before they took a dump on it.

It won't though. It already has decided to do what pissed so many players off the most.

Defined classes. You click " I'm a jedi" and your a jedi.

Defined classes is what killed galaxies. Before the skill set system was the most customizable character system. The NGE took away our freedom of choice and crammed us into defined classes.

I'm not saying its going to be bad game. It will just be a massive let down to anyone hoping for a galaxies style game back.

 

[Hiphophippo]

APB will probbaly beat it.

Only in some bizarro universe.

 

[Uber Waddles]

How do you propose this change, huh?

WoW nailed the MMO Market down flat. The way it does combat, questing, balance, endgame and pre-endgame are pretty much the only way to make a successful MMO while keeping the RPG elements. WoW has massive appeal by brining in Casuals, while appealing to their Hardcores.

For any RPG, your going to have to have a way to level up. Your gonna need battle abilities on a macrobar. Your gonna quest, and kill giant monsters. Variations come in how armor/classes effect eachother.

APB might work, because its a sandbox based, although its grindy center will probably kill it off. TOR will be a success, its BioWare and Starwars. The only way it could appeal more to people is if it gave out free blowjobs and cleaned your house for a year.

You cant do an MMO without copying WoW. You just have to find your unique thing, and go with it. Pray it works.

 

[MajoraPersona]

I know that WoW's alleged 10 million players looks like a big, juicy pile of money, but there's something you need to understand...

Your target market, the MMO player or POTENTIAL MMO player, is entirely composed of two distinct types of people right now:

1. People playing World of Warcraft.

2. People who DON'T WANT TO PLAY World of Warcraft.

Because there's no such thing as someone who WANTS to play WoW, but can't due to real life stuff. For example, money, school, work, relationships, etc. And because these situations are permanent and automatically prevent any future playing of MMOs.

Also, there's no such thing as someone who's playing WoW, but doesn't want to. No, really. Unlike the first bit, this one's serious. I don't think it's possible. Unless they canceled their subscription and are just using up the rest of their paid time.

 

[tehweave]

I know that WoW's alleged 10 million players looks like a big, juicy pile of money, but there's something you need to understand...

Unfortunately, right after you said that, every video game developer stopped listening. The highlighted word is what they care about, and since WoW is making a BOATLOAD of cash, they want to reign in on it. Even if they get a tenth or a 50th of Wow subscribers for more than a few months, it will more often than not pay for itself.