MMO Question

[c_westerman13]

Surely, the important question is:

why are all the MMOs that actually sound good subscription based? surely it would make more sense from the POV of 'sell more units' to have players buy the game, then be able to play it without paying again?

Once a game plateaus and stops growing money starts becomming a bigger issue. It becomes a lot more difficult to handle all the bug testing, customer service, etc. Also MMO servers are pretty expensive.

No Constant Cash Flow = No MMO

The alternative to subscriptions is putting out an expansion once a year or having a ton of micro transactions. Both come with their own issues.

Also sub based MMO's tend to be bigger and make more money. More Money = Better Game

Personally, i think expansions once a year is the best bet - its no different from bringing out relatively-frequent sequels!

 

[Krion_Vark]

My friends have been trying to get me to play MMORPG's with them, and my response is always the same. "If you can find me an MMORPG that doesn't have a battle system that amounts to standing around, doing nothing but nursing cooldowns until you've killed 20 of whatever some generic farmer said they need the liver from, then I'll join it."

Two years later, and they STILL haven't come up with anything, but they continue to bug me about it anyway.

So, I ask you, does such an MMO exist? (I'm also looking for a good twitch shooter that has non-shitty shotguns, but that is neither here nor there.)

Vindictus if no one has said it yet. You have to fight and dodge yourself. There are still cooldown skills but its mostly through combos done by clicking the left and right buttons on the mouse.

 

[Electrohydra]

I don't find it good personally, but Dofus has a combat system I've seen in no other MMO: It's turn based. Yes there are cooldowns on some abilities, but it's really not the feel of just waiting for them to be ready again. The combat system is just awesome IMO. And it's free (at least basic content. You have to pay to see most of the game)

But yeah, the quests are basically: get X of Y items most of the time.

 

[leviticusd]

It's old and dated and most people thought it gone, but there's some servers with some good PvP (Starsider), but Star Wars Galaxies has a manual mode for combat targeting (you can auto-target, but you get more criticals when manually targeting). BH or Commando (AoE flamethrower is fun) would be good choices.

Between its age, developer, infamous history, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't want to try it. It's got some good principles however and the space game is way underrated.

-edit-
"..Aren't shumps bullet hell games like Touhou? A twitch shooter is when you die in 1-3 bullets. There aren't any energy shields or 'dying mode' BS. You get shot, you die, you respawn, you get back to the action. Counter-Strike is the best example I can give. (Well...kind of. You don't respawn in CS)

It's funny. I can't kill ANYTHING in Halo, but I'm always in the top 3 for TSes."

Nevermind then. Even this doesn't fit that criteria....you do clone (respawn) and get back to action pretty quickly though....

 

[Ganthrinor]

My friends have been trying to get me to play MMORPG's with them, and my response is always the same. "If you can find me an MMORPG that doesn't have a battle system that amounts to standing around, doing nothing but nursing cooldowns until you've killed 20 of whatever some generic farmer said they need the liver from, then I'll join it."

Two years later, and they STILL haven't come up with anything, but they continue to bug me about it anyway.

So, I ask you, does such an MMO exist? (I'm also looking for a good twitch shooter that has non-shitty shotguns, but that is neither here nor there.)

Actually, one such thing does exist.

Google yourself up "World of Tanks" and check it out. You can thank me later.

 

[Katana314]

Oh, and from the same publisher as Dungeon Fighter and Vindictus is this:

http://www.gamesradar.com/pc/dragon-nest/preview/dragon-nest-hands-on-preview/a-20110510135445888001/g-20110510134745300010

Take a read, since he touches on the very things you and me all seem to hate about MMOs.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Dragonica Online is a beat'em up MMO with gamepad support.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Oh, and from the same publisher as Dungeon Fighter and Vindictus is this:

http://www.gamesradar.com/pc/dragon-nest/preview/dragon-nest-hands-on-preview/a-20110510135445888001/g-20110510134745300010

Take a read, since he touches on the very things you and me all seem to hate about MMOs.

That...does look interesting, and it's by Nexon...is it out already? /Too lazy to go to Nexon's site right now

 

[Katana314]

Oh, and from the same publisher as Dungeon Fighter and Vindictus is this:

http://www.gamesradar.com/pc/dragon-nest/preview/dragon-nest-hands-on-preview/a-20110510135445888001/g-20110510134745300010

Take a read, since he touches on the very things you and me all seem to hate about MMOs.

That...does look interesting, and it's by Nexon...is it out already? /Too lazy to go to Nexon's site right now

No. I think I just put myself on an E-mail update list, hoping they'd keep it simple to something like "Open beta available now" whenever.

 

[Valiance]

My friends have been trying to get me to play MMORPG's with them, and my response is always the same. "If you can find me an MMORPG that doesn't have a battle system that amounts to standing around, doing nothing but nursing cooldowns until you've killed 20 of whatever some generic farmer said they need the liver from, then I'll join it."

Two years later, and they STILL haven't come up with anything, but they continue to bug me about it anyway.

So, I ask you, does such an MMO exist? (I'm also looking for a good twitch shooter that has non-shitty shotguns, but that is neither here nor there.)

Global Agenda? It's more of an MMOFPS than MMORPG though. It has cooldowns but combat is hitscan/hitbox based, so you can't stand in the middle of an open field hoping your numbers are bigger than them - there's actual dodging, cover fire, suppression fire, you have your AoE grenades, rocket launchers, whatever. It's sorta like a MMO version of TF2, for lack of a better team. It's free now and better than it ever was through content patches and such, so feel free to check it out.

Also, try Valkyrie Sky. It's a MMOSHMUP. Very playable in single player or with coop. Interesting classes including more melee-ish classes and more traditional "stay as far back as possible and shoot" like you're used to form a SHMUP like R-Type, Raiden, Gradius, etc. Each class has specific abilties including summoning pets, aoe attacks, side attacks, back attacks, focused damage, etc. It's really not that bad, it's not the most polished game, but the gameplay itself is fun and exciting. If anything, it fails more at being an MMO than being a SHMUP, so I find it enjoyable.

As for twitch shooter, what do you mean? One where you leftclick and something dies? Try Crossfire, it's like CS. If you want a good FPS that actually requires more than all aim no brain, try painkiller or UT/Quake Live/Tribes NeXT.

 

[Kopikatsu]

My friends have been trying to get me to play MMORPG's with them, and my response is always the same. "If you can find me an MMORPG that doesn't have a battle system that amounts to standing around, doing nothing but nursing cooldowns until you've killed 20 of whatever some generic farmer said they need the liver from, then I'll join it."

Two years later, and they STILL haven't come up with anything, but they continue to bug me about it anyway.

So, I ask you, does such an MMO exist? (I'm also looking for a good twitch shooter that has non-shitty shotguns, but that is neither here nor there.)

Global Agenda? It's more of an MMOFPS than MMORPG though. It has cooldowns but combat is hitscan/hitbox based, so you can't stand in the middle of an open field hoping your numbers are bigger than them - there's actual dodging, cover fire, suppression fire, you have your AoE grenades, rocket launchers, whatever. It's sorta like a MMO version of TF2, for lack of a better team. It's free now and better than it ever was through content patches and such, so feel free to check it out.

Watched some gameplay of GA...is there a first person view? The third person view seems awfully...clunky. The person I was watching had difficulty killing a random AI because it was too close to him.

 

[TheIronRuler]

EVE online, maybe...? You could work for a player run corporation and just mine all day long, if that's your bag. Other than that, i'm afraid killing 20 of whatever is just the nature of MMOs i'm afraid. The business model is based around repetition, otherwise you'd never stay for longer than a month.

But then you'll be having a second job that makes you pay for it.

RUN FROM MMOs!

 

[JET1971]

My friends have been trying to get me to play MMORPG's with them, and my response is always the same. "If you can find me an MMORPG that doesn't have a battle system that amounts to standing around, doing nothing but nursing cooldowns until you've killed 20 of whatever some generic farmer said they need the liver from, then I'll join it."

Two years later, and they STILL haven't come up with anything, but they continue to bug me about it anyway.

So, I ask you, does such an MMO exist?

OK question for you, have you played MMO games? Oh wait dont answer!

(I'm also looking for a good twitch shooter that has non-shitty shotguns, but that is neither here nor there.)

I think thats the problem. no it is the problem! you prefer twitch shooters over tactical. run and gun and noobtube constant action is what you want. and MMO games are much much slower paced where you need to think and think allot. weapons verses armor, any MMO worth its salt will have 100+ weapons per class in the level ranges, they will have 100+ armor parts per armor slot for level ranges per class. each one has a benifit and a negative. A good MMO has no uber class with uber kit. with todays hardware and all the variables it is impossible to have twitch shooter speed in an MMO. holy crap thats generic explanation for MMO weapons verses armor. lets jut say it requires you to think about many many variables and what you want your character to be doing and what they will be fighting. and all that starts from when you create it and put skills where. twitch FPS everyone is equal for character, MMO there is no equal, just right tool/armor/skill choices for the right job.

just stick with COD.

 

[Valiance]

Watched some gameplay of GA...is there a first person view? The third person view seems awfully...clunky. The person I was watching had difficulty killing a random AI because it was too close to him.

When's the video from? The game was a bit mediocre when I first played it, but a couple months later, latency and hitboxes were vastly improved. Also, you can with several (I don't think all though) go into a first person zoom view. I'm afraid the game is mostly third person though. The animations aren't fantastic but it gives you more of a sense of your character and makes being behind cover better, especially in PvP. That said, yeah, I've never had my gun get stuck shooting bullets on the opposite side of an NPC.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Watched some gameplay of GA...is there a first person view? The third person view seems awfully...clunky. The person I was watching had difficulty killing a random AI because it was too close to him.

When's the video from? The game was a bit mediocre when I first played it, but a couple months later, latency and hitboxes were vastly improved. Also, you can with several (I don't think all though) go into a first person zoom view. I'm afraid the game is mostly third person though. The animations aren't fantastic but it gives you more of a sense of your character and makes being behind cover better, especially in PvP. That said, yeah, I've never had my gun get stuck shooting bullets on the opposite side of an NPC.

Hm...August of 2010, I guess.

My friends have been trying to get me to play MMORPG's with them, and my response is always the same. "If you can find me an MMORPG that doesn't have a battle system that amounts to standing around, doing nothing but nursing cooldowns until you've killed 20 of whatever some generic farmer said they need the liver from, then I'll join it."

Two years later, and they STILL haven't come up with anything, but they continue to bug me about it anyway.

So, I ask you, does such an MMO exist?

OK question for you, have you played MMO games? Oh wait dont answer!

(I'm also looking for a good twitch shooter that has non-shitty shotguns, but that is neither here nor there.)

I think thats the problem. no it is the problem! you prefer twitch shooters over tactical. run and gun and noobtube constant action is what you want. and MMO games are much much slower paced where you need to think and think allot. weapons verses armor, any MMO worth its salt will have 100+ weapons per class in the level ranges, they will have 100+ armor parts per armor slot for level ranges per class. each one has a benifit and a negative. A good MMO has no uber class with uber kit. with todays hardware and all the variables it is impossible to have twitch shooter speed in an MMO. holy crap thats generic explanation for MMO weapons verses armor. lets jut say it requires you to think about many many variables and what you want your character to be doing and what they will be fighting. and all that starts from when you create it and put skills where. twitch FPS everyone is equal for character, MMO there is no equal, just right tool/armor/skill choices for the right job.

just stick with COD.

I have the most trouble with that last part. Call of Duty is not a twitch shooter by any stretch of the imagination. You have far too much health for that, not to mention the 'dying' state they give you. Also, twitch shooters tend to be far more tactical than you seem to give them credit for. When you die in 1-3 bullets and people tend to roam around in packs, you can't Rambo your way into anything or you'll get swiss cheesed almost instantly. Twitch shooters tend to be around setting traps and picking off those who break away from the group. (Sticking a mine on the inside of a doorframe is always entertaining.)

Anyway, notice how I didn't ask for an MMORPG that was a twitch shooter, but asked for suggestions for each genre separately, since...you know...there is a difference. Basically, your comparing a twitch shooter and an MMORPG is silly. They're totally different things and can't be compared. (Unless there is an MMOFPS with levels and gear about equal to what you'd find in a MMORPG what have you.) As for everyone being equal in a twitch FPS...is that bad? Is it so terrible to not be able to totally dominate someone simply because you have a better 'class' or gear than they do?

 

[Katana314]

Another plug for vindictus (and a funny vid)

 

[Valiance]

I have the most trouble with that last part. Call of Duty is not a twitch shooter by any stretch of the imagination. You have far too much health for that, not to mention the 'dying' state they give you. Also, twitch shooters tend to be far more tactical than you seem to give them credit for. When you die in 1-3 bullets and people tend to roam around in packs, you can't Rambo your way into anything or you'll get swiss cheesed almost instantly. Twitch shooters tend to be around setting traps and picking off those who break away from the group. (Sticking a mine on the inside of a doorframe is always entertaining.)

Anyway, notice how I didn't ask for an MMORPG that was a twitch shooter, but asked for suggestions for each genre separately, since...you know...there is a difference. Basically, your comparing a twitch shooter and an MMORPG is silly. They're totally different things and can't be compared. (Unless there is an MMOFPS with levels and gear about equal to what you'd find in a MMORPG what have you.) As for everyone being equal in a twitch FPS...is that bad? Is it so terrible to not be able to totally dominate someone simply because you have a better 'class' or gear than they do?

Not like GA is such a fantastic game, but I forgot to mention it has a leveling/talent tree/gear system similar to most MMOs, straight down to the green/blue/purple item designations. But it's not a twitch shooter.

That said, instagib in UT/Q3A(QL) is pretty much a twitch shooter with interesting movement.

http://forums.gametrailers.com/thread/twitch-shooter-/886495

Similar thread here, and most people are saying what I said. UT, Q3A (or QL these days).

http://forums.gametrailers.com/thread/twitch-shooters/1001530

And there's another one, except it's more like the 2nd page is people laughing at some dude who thought Halo 3 was twitch (lol) and people who never knew the genre. That said, it's kinda "sad but true" how they phrase it. Except they think UT3 was a twitch shooter and it...kinda wasn't.

It really depends on how you like movement. However, in 1v1 duels, and even team arena masters /// clan arena, UT2K4 and QL are not really twitch shooters. UT'99 and Q3A I think are, and Q3A's CPMA mod might be just the thing you're looking for.


Skip exactly 1 minute in if you don't want to watch the intro. Also, feel free to mute the video and replace it with your own music. But it gives you the idea of the gameplay. Hope graphics aren't too important to you though.

 

[Cpu46]

Mabinogi is pretty good, only a few skills actually have cool downs and they usually are only used in specific situations, for instance charge used to run in a straight line and smash into a distant enemy, while down attack is used to leap at a foe that is knocked down. Also there are only a few required quests that call for you to kill X amount of Y and even fewer that require you to get X number of Z that drops from Y at a .1% drop rate. That isn't to say there are not quests to do that, they are just optional and generally pay pretty well.

 

[Jdb]

Also, try Valkyrie Sky. It's a MMOSHMUP. Very playable in single player or with coop. Interesting classes including more melee-ish classes and more traditional "stay as far back as possible and shoot" like you're used to form a SHMUP like R-Type, Raiden, Gradius, etc. Each class has specific abilties including summoning pets, aoe attacks, side attacks, back attacks, focused damage, etc. It's really not that bad, it's not the most polished game, but the gameplay itself is fun and exciting. If anything, it fails more at being an MMO than being a SHMUP, so I find it enjoyable.

Valkyrie Sky was shut down last December.