MOBA Players Enjoy
- Thread starter Rastien
- Start date
Recommended Videos
I certainly am. Probably should stop though.Rastien said:Also my word this thread has spun off into something entirley different x) also whats the point your making you just seem to be argueing for the sake of argueing
And that has shit to do with your statement of:Skin said:
how?Skin said:
Sometimes i love you, others i hate you; depending on if you woke up on the brilliant or fucktard side of the bed!SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
So basically its lol with an even more insane learning curve and worse snowballing? yea that plus the fact that from what I have seen the DOTA community is even more elitist and hostile than the lol community i'll just stick to League.Rastien said:
My bad i know its shen musta been typing fast and dopey apologies (just typed shen instead of chen again point in case!).Yosharian said:Dude it's CHEN not SHENRastien said:For those who havn't played moba the video below is a combination of 2 heros which results in something hilarious although quite difficult to pull off.
Dota 2 players will know the champs but to put it into context for others (pudge and shen)
Legue: blitzcranks grab, combined with another heros ult porting him to fountain.
Hon: butchers hook and again another hero insta porting him to fountain.
<youtube=mHp7AE3a7Wc>
-edit there was a better video i was shown but couldn't find it
This is kind of abusive, if anyone did this in one of my games I'd be fucking pissed. Surely they have fixed it by now anyway.
Also its being kept in, its been said that its to funny not to keep in. On a side note it is damn difficult to pull off regurley and i wouldn't say its that viable your pretty much trading 1 for 1 as pudge is taken out of the fight also and placed in the fountain.
Wasn't directed solely at you so don't worry
Yeah it's good to see that DotA 2 retains the same sort of welcoming community spirit and attitude that we've seen dominant in previous MOBA communities.major_chaos said:
/sarcasm
Lol cool avatar broseph "Enchantment!" to be honest the community seems alot better than legue havn't had someone throw a hissy fit at me yet or in game, no surrendar option either which is nice.satsugaikaze said:
But this is more than likely due to the fact currently dota 2 is still in beta so there isn't as many people playing. More people playing equals a greater chance of getting paired up with shit a munching gob shite
(this is refrence to there personality not skills, got no issue playing with unskilled people if they are polite.)
I will admit that LoL has a lower skill ceiling (only when it comes to denies) but I prefer it because of the incentives to keep playing. I like collecting IP and buying my champions because they are my champs I worked to unlock them and I choose which ones I want.
plus LoL keeps track of stats like takedowns and minion kills which I like because for some reason I enjoy watching my stats slowly rise. If Dota 2 had some of these features I'd be more inclined to play it, otherwise I'll be playing LoL with my friends (some of whom are probably not even good enough for Dota)
Being good at Dota doesn't make you good at LoL, and everytime I hear someone say "Don't worry guys I play Dota we'll win no problem!" I prepare to lose hard.
plus LoL keeps track of stats like takedowns and minion kills which I like because for some reason I enjoy watching my stats slowly rise. If Dota 2 had some of these features I'd be more inclined to play it, otherwise I'll be playing LoL with my friends (some of whom are probably not even good enough for Dota)
this irks me though, just because you are good at Dota doesn't make you good at LoL, regardless of skill ceilings. I have friends who are insanely good at Forza but I would wipe the floor with them in a round of mario kart, I would wreck people at Team Fortress 2 or Counter-strike but I get my butt handed to me at CoD or Tribes.SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Being good at Dota doesn't make you good at LoL, and everytime I hear someone say "Don't worry guys I play Dota we'll win no problem!" I prepare to lose hard.
I am saying that if LoL is so much easier than DOTA 2 then please prove it to all of us. Make an account and over 2 months get to the top 10% of the people that play. Since the game is so very easy it should not be a problem for you. That is what I am saying.SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Also, I have played plenty of DOTA 2. A good portion of my friends prefer DOTA 2 to LoL. So, I'll play DOTA 2 with them because it isn't a bad game and I like playing with friends. You really need to calm down and realize that no one is attacking you personally here. I have just played a lot of LoL, DOTA 2, and even HoN, and I know that none of these games are by any means easy. Anyone who has tried to climb the ladder in LoL can attest to this.
I am guessing that you have played <15 games of LoL; I simply do not understand why you hate it to such a degree. Its just a video game after all.
EDIT: I'm pretty bad at both games. 600 something total games of LoL. 40 ranked matches. 1200 elo.YeOldeMoose said:
about a hundred games of DOTA 2 under my belt and I still feel like I'm unskilled.
LoL is simpler than DOTA. That is a given. The skill cap in both games is extremely high, but because there is less to know and fewer punishing mechanics in LoL, DOTA's skill cap is higher.
Doesn't mean there isn't an ocean of difference between good players and bad players in LoL which has a lower skill cap.
Doesn't mean LoL is worse, LoL is a great game.
Just means there is MORE to know and think about in DOTA.
@Verzin: I'm not saying you are bad by any means, but 1200 ELO, as you know, is what you start with. So, it is quite apparent that there still is a lot for you to learn and master when it comes to LoL. I'm sure we can both agree on that.
@Smash: Generally, when you post on a forum you are attempting to have some sort of discussion right? That is just what most people do I suppose. If you do not wish to then you can feel free to just not respond.
As for what you were asking, I really don't see what makes DOTA 2 more skillful. The main differences is that LoL balances based on champion, while DOTA 2 balances with items. So, in DOTA 2, knowing which items to buy to counter a specific champion is important, but in LoL, knowing what champions/lane combinations to choose to counter specific champions is much more significant.
Other than that, DOTA 2 has the forests that you need to memorize where the paths are in them. I would argue that this does not raise the "skill ceiling." Once one memorizes where these are, what exactly is skillful about using them? Its just another tool like LoL's brush. All it is really is more knowledge that is a barrier that new players need to know in order to be competitive.
Do you have any specific reasons as to why DOTA 2's skill ceiling is higher than LoL? I simply do not see any.
@Smash: Generally, when you post on a forum you are attempting to have some sort of discussion right? That is just what most people do I suppose. If you do not wish to then you can feel free to just not respond.
As for what you were asking, I really don't see what makes DOTA 2 more skillful. The main differences is that LoL balances based on champion, while DOTA 2 balances with items. So, in DOTA 2, knowing which items to buy to counter a specific champion is important, but in LoL, knowing what champions/lane combinations to choose to counter specific champions is much more significant.
Other than that, DOTA 2 has the forests that you need to memorize where the paths are in them. I would argue that this does not raise the "skill ceiling." Once one memorizes where these are, what exactly is skillful about using them? Its just another tool like LoL's brush. All it is really is more knowledge that is a barrier that new players need to know in order to be competitive.
Do you have any specific reasons as to why DOTA 2's skill ceiling is higher than LoL? I simply do not see any.
Dota 2 actually balances around heroes and team compositions as well. What do you see in LoL games? 1 top, 1 mid, jungler, 2 bot, the usual right? In Dota 2 you have many choices for your team. You can go the "LoL" route of having a short lane solo, jungler, solo mid, and two in the long lane. You can also have three solo, one jungler, one roamer. Then there's three solo and two roamers. Then there's trilanes. That's just laning.YeOldeMoose said:
Now you have team compositions. There are three phases in a game: Early, Middle, and Late. Some heroes are stronger early game, some middle, and some late. You can have teams that are strong at phases too. Having a carry that needs farm is not even required. Sometimes it's better to have a hard carry, sometimes it's better not to have a hard carry. It all boils down to choice and counter picking and counter playing. Items help enhance counter playing since you can buy an item like Orchid to stop a hero who really relies on their abilities.
Early push teams are very powerful early game teams that push down towers for early gold advantage. This specific line up hard counters teams that are stronger in the late game since they have to farm up.
Mechanical skills are also a big barrier too. Last hitting works differently in Dota 2 than LoL. Each hero in Dota has their own attack wind up animation. Some heroes such as Sniper can last hit very easily while supports like Crystal Maiden have a long wind up animation. There's also turning speeds, which a lot of LoL players mistaken as input lag. Turning speed is a balance factor so that range heroes don't get too much of an advantage over melee heroes.YeOldeMoose said:
Inner workings of the many deeper mechanics. You also lose gold when you die. Losing gold is not a "useless mechanic meant to make the game harder." Losing gold works both ways. YOU and YOUR team can put the enemy carry in a state of no farm. There's also denying. In LoL, you just have to harass and last hit in lane. In Dota 2, you last hit, deny, and harass. Denying allows you control over your CREEP EQUILIBRIUM so that you don't push your lane too far out and expose yourself to ganks.YeOldeMoose said:
In the end, Dota 2 simply gives players more choices than LoL.
You are correct in that generally in LoL, the lanes are pretty consistent. I have seen a few high level DOTA 2 matches, and it seems their lane comps are pretty samey as well. It is possible to run all those lane comps, but it generally isn't as competitive to do that. You can run crazy lane comps in LoL as well, but again, it won't be as competitive so people don't do it as often.Aircross said:
As for the other 2 points, LoL is the same. There are champs that have very strong early games but weak late games. There are champs who need to farm up before they can carry the game; it is very similar.
While I'm not sure if you were really saying this, but I will agree that DOTA 2's item choices do make countering specific strategies after character select a lot more interesting.
Again, in LoL, each char has their own attack animations. Some casters such as Leblanc have a very fast animation and projectile speed on their auto attacks, while others, such as Annie, have much slower animations and projectile speeds. So, again, no real difference there.Aircross said:
I really do not know much about turning speed. I have never heard of this mechanic before. Still, having each character turn at a difference speed doesn't really require the player to have more skill. It simply means that, again, they need to simply memorize more about the game before being competitive. Once you know everyone's turning speeds you can't really do anything skillful with it.
I again will disagree that losing gold makes the game anymore skillful or harder. It simply makes death a lot more punishing. In LoL, a team can devote a lot of resources to killing the enemy carry a lot to make sure he/she can't carry late game. The only difference is the carry won't be losing gold. He/she won't be able to kill any champs or minions to get money, and won't be able to get experience. So, in the end, the carry is still denied, they simply don't lose any money up front.Aircross said:
Denying I see as a boring mechanic. Yes, the lane feels a lot more hectic with more to watch for as you try and deal with denying your enemy and keeping yourself from being denied, but I personally find it more fun to interact with the enemy characters personally. In LoL you focus on trying to kill them more than killing your own creeps. I guess in this case its more of your personal preference.
Theres also one more thing I'd like to mention that makes LoL skillful. Skill shots. I'm not 100% sure, but doesn't DOTA 2 only have Earth Shaker's fissure, Pudge's hook, and Moon Princess's spear. Probably more than half of LoL's champs have skillshots that you actually have to aim. What exactly is more skillful, clicking on an enemy, or actually having to aim your attacks?
Eh. I wouldn't say its better. They have different feels and artistic styles, which do actually make a difference.SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Personally, DotA 2 is the FAIRER game than LoL. With a disconnect in each game, in LoL, you're pretty much screwed. However in DotA, a team can still easily come back and win with only 4 players. One fed player is all that you need in DotA 2, while in LoL you still need a team to back you up.
It's interesting to see how many people here consider simplification of a genre's game mechanics to be an automatically bad thing. I personally enjoyed the removal of denying and gold deduction from death in LoL because the final product became much more focused, making it a little easier to understand and a little easier to master.
Summoner (read: player)-specific levelling characteristics via summoner spells and rune pages was a lateral step in the right direction, adding complexity without necessarily adding another set of statistics to keep track of, or a new hero to understand.
Speaking of a new hero, that's probably my biggest gripe with League of Legends - developers of MOBAs need to understand that adding new heroes is an incredibly exhaustive way of adding fresh content to their game. The metagame of LoL, as deep as it is, makes a frustrating number of changes almost every month.
Like a fighting game (because that's the only other predominantly multiplayer-focused genre I can think of similar in depth/complexity), adding a large amount of new fighters and frequently adjusting the characteristics of existing fighters with no end in sight is detrimental to the consistency of the game. I am not so fussed about tweaks and rebalances as I am about additional heroes, however.
The games are complex enough without the need for extra characters that all players need to deeply understand in order to keep their competitive edge. It's what put me off the original DotA, and it's what Riot Games ramped up to eleven with their own title. It somehow keeps their fanbase satisfied but at the same time becomes more of an exclusive, closeted demographic. I recently got back into League of Legends after a hiatus of about 6 months - it was just about the same as playing it for the very first time. The greater proportion about everything I knew in the game had changed so much since then, and knowing how many hours I had invested just to get that knowledge...
It's the same as writing something great on a Word document, coming back a long time later to see that space completely blank. It feels draining to see it.
Still, it's difficult to see what comeback mechanisms in MOBA games are considered as "fair". In practice, there are plenty of scenarios in all games where a fed character can pick up the slack where another team member drops out. Whether or not it involves the co-operation of the rest of the remaining team is a different debate.
Summoner (read: player)-specific levelling characteristics via summoner spells and rune pages was a lateral step in the right direction, adding complexity without necessarily adding another set of statistics to keep track of, or a new hero to understand.
Speaking of a new hero, that's probably my biggest gripe with League of Legends - developers of MOBAs need to understand that adding new heroes is an incredibly exhaustive way of adding fresh content to their game. The metagame of LoL, as deep as it is, makes a frustrating number of changes almost every month.
Like a fighting game (because that's the only other predominantly multiplayer-focused genre I can think of similar in depth/complexity), adding a large amount of new fighters and frequently adjusting the characteristics of existing fighters with no end in sight is detrimental to the consistency of the game. I am not so fussed about tweaks and rebalances as I am about additional heroes, however.
The games are complex enough without the need for extra characters that all players need to deeply understand in order to keep their competitive edge. It's what put me off the original DotA, and it's what Riot Games ramped up to eleven with their own title. It somehow keeps their fanbase satisfied but at the same time becomes more of an exclusive, closeted demographic. I recently got back into League of Legends after a hiatus of about 6 months - it was just about the same as playing it for the very first time. The greater proportion about everything I knew in the game had changed so much since then, and knowing how many hours I had invested just to get that knowledge...
It's the same as writing something great on a Word document, coming back a long time later to see that space completely blank. It feels draining to see it.
Disconnects should be a non-issue in competitive (competition) play, though. But in terms of your everyday game, sure.Razoack said:
Still, it's difficult to see what comeback mechanisms in MOBA games are considered as "fair". In practice, there are plenty of scenarios in all games where a fed character can pick up the slack where another team member drops out. Whether or not it involves the co-operation of the rest of the remaining team is a different debate.