Modding single player Mass Effect 3 bans you from Origin

[BeerTent]

If you buy a lawnmower and add better blades to it, do the people who made the lawnmower have a right to take that lawnmower away from you?

I beleive from the way games are sold nowerdays its more Akin To you Renting a lawnmower and then replacing the blades on it to non-sanctioned ones (which may or may not be better) which naturally they wouldnt like and they would want you to return the lawnmower (and other rented items) back to them and likely not want to provide you a renting service anymore.

Well what you believe is wrong (this isn't my opinion, this is a fact), the games you buy are bought and paid for, they are yours to do what you want with. Of course they place restrictions to make sure that you're not using your copy to give free copies to other people, or ruin the game for everyone else but that's not the same as renting.

State your source. Even some distros of Linux requires you to accept a licensing agreement.

After all, this is, oh, I dunno... STANDARD In the damn industry! If any of you knew anything at all about these mystical machines we use every bloody day, this discussion would be about fucking around with modders, and not "OH MAI GAWD! I DUNT OWN DAH SOFTWAER?!!!11"

Alrighty, so I'm confused. If I'm ''buying a license'' to play the game, does that mean the publisher still owns the disc and the box? If so, does that mean I can't damage said objects in any way, since it's not my property?

Since you paid for the game disc, manual, box, ETC, it's yours. Use it as a frisbee if you want, however, you are also paying to license the software, and what you can do with the software is outlined in the EULA. If the EULA states to Don't fucking Decompile the software, then don't fucking decompile it.

I'm kinda against this, even though, legally the Modders may be wrong. (I don't know the EULA for Origin games.) I'm a pretty massive Valve Fan though, and giving your community the ability to mod your game, even giving them tools and praise to do so is a big thing in my books, and is generally the right thing to do.

Unless you got a MMO. Which the ME series is not.

 

[Durgiun]

Alrighty, so I'm confused. If I'm ''buying a license'' to play the game, does that mean the publisher still owns the disc and the box? If so, does that mean I can't damage said objects in any way, since it's not my property?

They technically do still own the disk and box, hell Morrowind's EULA even claimed that breaking the EULA would result in the box being taken away, but I don't think publishers care about the condition of the box/disk only if you have the ability to play the game or not.

What fat, balding, overprivileged, suit-wearing, psychopathic troglodyte came up with those bass ackwards rules? Does the same apply to books? Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if it did, what with insanity apparently ruling the world.

 

[RaikuFA]

For some reason I read this as mocking.

THAT would be scary...

CAPTCHA: cliff-hanger DUN-DUN-DUUUUUUN

 

[SajuukKhar]

The current hate target? EA have been the "big bad guy" for well over 10 years. Activision briefly got some flack a little while ago...

OK. So, the main reasons why EA has power over bioware with this?
-As the publisher EA fund the game and Bioware are contractually obliged to produce it. If they were to withhold their product to protest something, EA would be entitled to amazing royalties. This would never happen though. That's because...
-EA own Bioware. EA controls all the people high up in Bioware. Bioware acts in EAs best interests.

DRM and policies with regard to pricing, distribution etc are the domain of the publisher. There's no reason for Biwoare to be involved. We've already established it would be stupid for them to have some 'protest', I don't understand why you think the developers have any influence here. EA have let other games get published both with and without mod support. Likewise they have published both with and without origin, steam, secuROM etc. In this case, it apparently would have taken more funding to get the game out in such a way that it could be modded without compromising their DRM, DLC or multiplayer interity (possibly all 3), EA decided not to allocate the funding and instead release the game without mod support.

Look, your second response didn't really make sense, but I'm guessing you're young, angry and don't like getting called out when you say something that's wrong. Just take a few minutes, actually think about it for a second, and realise that it doesn't fucking matter. At all. When someone is condescending or patronizing on the internet, it's not really a personal attack on you. It's an attack on the idea you've presented.

Actually for the past several years now Activison and Ubisoft have dwarfed the hatred for EA, it is really only in the case of Bioware do people normally flip shit over EA anymore. CoD yearly releases, and map packs tat resell old maps, and Ubisofts always online DRM have drawn more ire from the gaming community over a longer time then anything Ea has done recently. Barring the whole ME3 thing which he haven't seen play out all the way yet, though I wouldn't be surprised that after its over people are still ragging on Activision and CoD more then EA.
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Secondly all those people in Bioware still have something called free will, they have the ability to look past the money and past EA and say "we are gonna do whats best for the gamers" but they don't, they choose not to, it isn't because EA is forcing them, because EA isn't, EA is very certainly throwing incentives in their face to ignore that better call but at the end of the day the people at Bioware CAN say FUCK OFF, and they still choose not to.

Beyond that Bioware could easily threaten Ea with leaving to get them to do the things they want. Bioware makes EA big amounts of cash and if Bioware legitimately threatened to leave for treating the fans like shit EA would have to respond or else loose a big name, it isn't like Bioware couldn't get another publisher. Activison and Ubisoft would love ot get thier hands on them

Your constant assertion that there is no possible way for anyone at Bioware to do anything beyond what EA tells them, which is illogical to no end, to speaks volumes about how far you will go to hate on something.
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Thirdly resulting to calling someone "young" when you have no evidence to support that is a terrible and obvious personal attack used when one lacks an argument.

Also I don't see how you can even attempt assume that I am angry when I have been exceedingly calm during the course of this argument.

I suggest you try to base your arguments on facts and logic and not on assumption.

What fat, balding, overprivileged, suit-wearing, psychopathic troglodyte came up with those bass ackwards rules? Does the same apply to books? Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if it did, what with insanity apparently ruling the world.

i think it applies to E-Books, and I know movies and music both have similar,but not exactly the same licensing BS on them.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

Jesus christ, it seems like a lot of the big names in the industry need a good hard slap upside the head. Almost every mod that was available for ME 1 and 2 improved the game. God damn it.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Jesus christ, it seems like a lot of the big names in the industry need a good hard slap upside the head. Almost every mod that was available for ME 1 and 2 improved the game. God damn it.

Almost every mod really isnt something to hold high when there was like 3 of them per game.

Not allowing modding is BS, but ME's modding past isn't exactly.......... there.

 

[Saulkar]

EA can fuck all the way off with this.

I'll do what I want with the games I PURCHASED.

fixed that for ya

Fixed the typo you failed to fix.

HINT: It was the letter "D" after purchase.

My pro consumerism is showing.

 

[BeerTent]

[...]I suggest you try to base your arguments on facts and logic and not on assumption.

No offense, but I suggest you learn what a contract is.

 

[Something Amyss]

I'm not sure why this is a shock to anyone anymore. It's been mentioned before that this can happen. I think it's happened with other games (Though honestly, I'm not using origin and don't give a crap). If you don't understand that this is something they reserve the right to do, you kind of deserve the ban you get.

Sorry is single player that hard for you?

Well, yes, that's the only reason anyone would ever mod a video game.

 

[Atmos Duality]

If they downloaded it then I would agree with you, but if it was a physical copy activated on Origin, then this is ludicrous.

At the end of the day we don't know enough information to make such judgements.

So digital copies are supposed to get different treatment then physical ones?

I would love to know why.

No matter if you buy it online or physically you are still buying the same license.

Same license, yes. But when the license is presented matters quite a lot.

With a physical copy there's no way to prove that the user knew what the terms were BEFORE purchase (and since refunds won't happen for opened software...yeah, you probably see the problem there).

This casts doubt on if the user would have agreed to the terms at that time, if they knew them. Companies claim the user can view the license agreement on their website, but the knowledge of that option is not guaranteed either with this form of transaction, so the element of doubt remains.

It's a Contract of Adhesion at that point, and its terms are not guaranteed to be enforced.
(HOWEVER: This doesn't mean that the user can go nuts violating copyright; it just means the publisher won't be able to take the game away from the user or otherwise disable it because, well, that would be tantamount to running a scam)

However, if the game were purchased on Origin directly, the service agreement you agreed to to use Origin not only already includes most of the general terms of service, but any additional terms to the license are shown before the exchange is made.
Therefore, that claim would not hold up in court. You had the guaranteed opportunity to see the contract before committing to payment.

As for distinguishing between the two: Well, the box copy has a unique code; that is essentially what you're paying for after all. From there, it's a trivial matter to determine how it was purchased.

That's an important distinction, even if it's the same license.

 

[SajuukKhar]

No offense, but I suggest you learn what a contract is.

I do, and EULAs are valid contracts, for now at least.

Lets hope some crazy/psychotic SOB is willing to take on the entire industry in the near future and the court rules in his/her favor.

snip

I do believe that companies should be expected to put a link to the EULA somewhere on the box in a similar way that Steam's EULA is given a link to go to on the box of most Steam required games.

Still, the fact that software has a EULA is well known and one should be expected to look up a games EULA before buying it regardless if the box told them to or not. In the modern day of the internet it isn't unreasonable to expect people to do some research into the product they are buying.

 

[NiPah]

hahahahaha... What in the hell could they have hoped to do with this? Who does this please? The gamers? NO! EA makes policies that hurt gamers, not help them. Customer is always right? Customers come first? NO! EA wants to sell you DLC and prevent gamers from making mods themselves.

This has gone from me not buying Mass Effect 3 because I had no interest to me thinking about not buying any more EA products. I'm certainly not buying Sim City 5, shame because I actually wanted it, but I'll be stupid to believe Origin will do anything but hurt me. I will not support a company that doesn't view me as a customer as important, and right now all EA sees me as is dollar signs, as they have proven time and time again with each passing shit storm of a story.

 

[Bravo 21]

snip

that image made my day
OT: Bioware claims they are only taking action against people who cheat in MP, and I am inclined to believe it. If this was solely EA, then I might by more skeptical

 

[BathorysGraveland]

That sounds pretty fucking stupid really. I hear about EA all the time on this forum, and all this bullshit just makes me glad I have had nothing to do with their games.

 

[Tanakh]

Uhh were is the problem in this?

-The game belongs to EA/Bioware
-They have the right to say no modding SP


Again, where is the problem?

I agree, they are within their rights of being assholes. And if you continue to buy from them you are within your right of being his *****.

Curiosly enough I seldom if ever agree with you on perspective, but i must say that you are one of the few posters here that values facts over feelings.

 

[Antari]

Yes its your favorite neighbourhood conspiracy theorist here to say, "I told you so!" If you ever buy a game with an EA symbol on it. You've already made the worst mistake of your life.

 

[Vigormortis]

Except, they have no legal claim to the state of anything physically stored on your client machine. They can "legally" block you from modding content that must be shared through their network, but they have no right to block you from modding your own client-side data. Regardless of some ludicrous EULA.

I posted proof against that claim already. Here it is again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glider_%28bot%29

In that case it was established that Blizzard owned the code to WoW not only on their servers, but also the client coding + local game data on your hard drive. Even the game code loaded into RAM.

While that was an egregiously stupid bit of legal finagling when it took place, (and a case that I think creates an extremely dangerous precedent) it applies to game code being actively accessed and transferred to and from the Blizzard servers. They do have claim to that. Also, it was in regards to a specific piece of code. That of the bot written by MDY.

But any data on your local client not directly tied to their content servers is legally modifiable. So long as the modification does not directly alter or effect the content or services on their servers.

Basically, what EA is doing is bullshit. I don't care what they claim in their EULA.

This is exactly why I hate Always-On DRM so much and why I have zero interest in Diablo 3.

 

[SajuukKhar]

I agree, they are within their rights of being assholes. And if you continue to buy from them you are within your right of being his *****.

Curiosly enough I seldom if ever agree with you on perspective, but i must say that you are one of the few posters here that values facts over feelings.

Na man, everyone knows I am just a troll. It just so happens that sometimes to troll people you have to use facts.

It's one of those cosmic alignment things. It doesn't happen all the time but when it does.... it does.

But I do agree with you on the "they are within their rights of being assholes and by buying from them you are withing your right to be their *****" statement.

 

[BeerTent]

No offense, but I suggest you learn what a contract is.

I do, and EULAs are valid contracts, for now at least.

Lets hope some crazy/psychotic SOB is willing to take on the entire industry in the near future and the court rules in his/her favor.

Well, you should probably pick up what a job is then, if you got contracts under your belt. I'm picking at this part.

Secondly all those people in Bioware still have something called free will, they have the ability to look past the money and past EA and say "we are gonna do whats best for the gamers" but they don't, they choose not to, it isn't because EA is forcing them, because EA isn't, EA is very certainly throwing incentives in their face to ignore that better call but at the end of the day the people at Bioware CAN say FUCK OFF, and they still choose not to.

Let's pretend i've got a similar situation at my workspace. The company I work for has rolled out a new program that I feel is not right for the customer. Let's take your example, and apply it, as your ideal good guy. I state that I refuse to use this new process that my new overlords have stated I am required to do and that it is not in the best interest if the customer. Where am I in a week?

Handing my resume to Dave at superstore because I got sacked. Why? I signed a contract stating that in exchange for money, I am to do what my boss fucking tells me to do. Doesn't matter if I like it or not.

No company would be retarded to setup that kind of relationship with a company they OWN. That's right, EA bought BW. BW works for EA, and when EA says "do this" Then BW "does this" and not "Does Something Else because they thought it was a better idea."

Free will does not pay bills. Free will does not put food on your plate, and Free will will not work when you go for your 3rd screw-driver at the Toothy Moose Friday night. No, listening to your boss, and doing something, no matter how annoying and retarded it may be, generates a thing you'll acquire when your older called a Paycheque. Paycheques generate money, which you can use to Pay bills, put food on your plate, Money can even be used to pay for a cab-ride home and Money will be lost when you drunkenly buy Dungeon Defenders for you and 12 other people on Steam.

I think I've gone well beyond my point, but you really needed to learn that. The top people at Bioware made a decision to agree that Bioware would run better under EA's wing, in exchange for better funding. The owners at Bioware has stated this to management, which in turn states this to the employees. Another thing you'll pick up on when your older is the Chain of Command, and that it doesn't just apply to the military.

Note: Found a mistake after posting... Fix'd.

 

[SajuukKhar]

I think I've gone well beyond my point, but you really needed to learn that. The top people at Bioware made a decision to agree that Bioware would run better under EA's wing, in exchange for better funding.

That was the entire pint I was making also, it was, and is, Bioware's choice to put themselves in the situation they are now.

All of this "it is EA and EA only fault" BS isn't true, bioware made the choice.

The funny thing is that in your attempt to invalidate my point you actually stated the very thing I was making a deal out of was true.
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Also were I work I frequently tell my supervisor how I think we could make things better buy NOT doing what he told me to do, and frequently it causes other people to agree with me and then they do change it to what I or someone else suggested.

Your attitude of "I work for them so all I can do is sit down and shut up" is defeatist at the highest levels.

If Bioware really is that defeatist then they are wore off then people make them out to be now.