Modding single player Mass Effect 3 bans you from Origin

[endtherapture]

I can't believe people are actually standing up and defending EA, Bioware and not modding games...what is wrong with you people?

 

[linwolf]

You didn't show us the law.

You can modify YOUR copy.

It is illegal to modify copyrighted material. It does not matter if its your copy or somebody else's copy. The reason behind this is because you are using their assets without there permission in order to create a new product. That is how copyright law works.


If you want to read the actual copyright law in your country then stop being lazy and go look it up yourself.

You do know that most furnitures are copyrighted material you are still allow to modify them however you want, this is true for most man made things either it has a copyright, have an expired copyright or are to old to be copyrighted. Games tries to avoid this by claiming the digital is different, but no country have ever fully determinated whether this is legal. The law prevent you from selling modified copyrighted things not modifying them in the first place.

 

[Wolfram23]

snip

Hi, I'm not a lawyer so I don't know the finer details, however, I'm quite sure that EA is in the wrong here.

Firstly, you proclaim a lot about the legality and binding-ness of EULAs and Contracts. Consider that there are laws that supercede contracts. You could sign a contract, or agree to a EULA, that said by signing/agreeing, you must deliver your first born child to so-and-so. Yeah, no. Signing that does not make it legally binding because that is illegal to begin with.

So what does this mean for modding games? Well we can agree games are copyrighted material, and as it happens, there is a law for that - Fair Use. In certain circumstances you are completely allowed to use copyrighted material.

But let's not be so broad, let's consider software copyright, specifically.

Fair use is a defense to an allegation of copyright infringement under section 107 of the Copyright Act. This section describes some of the uses of copyrighted software that courts have held to be fair. In Galoob v. Nintendo, the 9th Circuit held that modification of copyright software for personal use was fair. In Sega v. Accolade, the 9th Circuit held that making copies in the course of reverse engineering is a fair use, when it is the only way to get access to the "ideas and functional elements" in the copyrighted code, and when "there is a legitimate reason for seeking such access".

Well, I think right here we can see that modding is completely legal. "Modification of copyright software for personal use was fair".

There is of course still grey areas thanks to EULAs, as described in the following. Apparently it can still go either way:

The Copyright Act expressly permits copies of a work to be made in some circumstances, even without the authorization of the copyright holder. In particular, "owners of copies" may make additional copies for archival purposes, "as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program", or for maintenance purposes.[4] Furthermore, "owners of copies" have the right to resell their copies, under the first sale doctrine and 17 U.S.C. § 109.

These rights only apply to "owners of copies." Most software vendors claim that their products are "licensed, not sold", thus sidestepping 17 U.S.C. § 117. American courts have taken varying approaches when confronted with these software license agreements. In MAI Systems Corp. v. Peak Computer, Inc., Triad Systems Corp. v. Southeastern Express Co., and Microsoft v Harmony,[5] various Federal courts held that "licensed, not sold" language in an EULA was effective. Other courts have held that "no bright-line rule distinguishes mere licenses from sales...The label placed on a transaction is not determinative".[6] The Ninth Circuit took a similar view (in the specialized context of bankruptcy) in Microsoft Corp. v. DAK Industries, Inc.[7]

Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_copyright

And please, I know wikipedia is "not a valid source" but let's not kid ourselves. This isn't a professional, peer reviewed and published article or paper. This is arguing with strangers on the internet, and frankly, if you want sources they are linked on the page.

 

[Wolfram23]

It is illegal to modify copyrighted material. It does not matter if its your copy or somebody else's copy. The reason behind this is because you are using their assets without there permission in order to create a new product. That is how copyright law works.


If you want to read the actual copyright law in your country then stop being lazy and go look it up yourself.

Wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_copyright

 

[SajuukKhar]

At this point no one on their side has any justification left for everything that company is doing and saying, so we kind of have to start asking that now, don't we? XD

He might work there or have a family member/friend who does. Game companies are pretty big and they need a lot of staff for a lot of things. But working on the assumption that he is just a fan, then I would just throw him in with the crowd that ate the ending up with a spoon, like the good little consumers they are.

Except the justification of legality.

And given the fact I have repeated on numerous occasions my dislike for EULA system I find it both sad and truly telling of the quality of people nowadays that instead of trying to have a meaningful conversation people just resort to the "He doesn't agree with me thus he must be a bioware spy" tactic.

 

[Atmos Duality]

You actually do have the option of reading the EULA before you purchase a game.

And since that still doesn't guarantee that the user read the EULA before buying the game, it's still not enforceable in court.

"Reasonable doubt".

The ONLY way to guarantee it, is to force the customer to read and agree to the EULA before the payment-transaction is made. This is a requirement in Contract Law common to both the United States and the UK.

I'm sure most members of the EU have similar takes as well.

 

[SovietX]

They don't want creative people making free content for their game. They would rather make an hour long mission with useless gear and charge you 15 dollars for it.

 

[SajuukKhar]

And since that still doesn't guarantee that the user read the EULA before buying the game, it's still not enforceable in court.

"Reasonable doubt".

The ONLY way to guarantee it, is to force the customer to read and agree to the EULA before the payment-transaction is made. This is a requirement in Contract Law common to both the United States and the UK.

I'm sure most members of the EU have similar takes as well.

As much as I wish they could give you the EULA beforehand there is no possible way for them to set that up in such a way as to guarantee that people actually read the contract beforehand.

 

[josemlopes]

If making a game that I bought (even if its just a license) makes me a criminal then I will be a criminal. I dont even see how this can be justified. It´s just greedy people being greedy and everyone knows that greed is bad, so fuck greed and fuck all this shit, I bought the game because I did want the product that they were selling and they deserved that money but I will pirate it if I see them fucking with my game just because they can.

 

[Wolfram23]

And since that still doesn't guarantee that the user read the EULA before buying the game, it's still not enforceable in court.

"Reasonable doubt".

The ONLY way to guarantee it, is to force the customer to read and agree to the EULA before the payment-transaction is made. This is a requirement in Contract Law common to both the United States and the UK.

I'm sure most members of the EU have similar takes as well.

As much as I wish they could give you the EULA beforehand there is no possible way for them to set that up in such a way as to guarantee that people actually read the contract beforehand.

"I agree that I have read and understood the EULA" Accept/Decline

Seems pretty easy to me.

 

[veloper]

This discussion is getting pointless. EULAs and national laws are worthless paper shields when it comes to Origin.
If EA want to ban an account, they simply can.
Game accounts have been deleted for all kinds of trivial things, like the kind of things we may say over here, but not over at EA forums. Now it's game mods.

People at EA control the servers, so they can ban with impunity, since it's not something you go to court over. They don't even need reasons.

The whole DRM-ridden digital download business is based soley on trust. The only thing you can do, if you don't have trust, is not use Origin in the first place.

 

[Wolfram23]

People at EA control the servers, so they can ban with impunity, since it's not something you go to court over.

That's the real problem. It's like a bully situation. He or she will be a total dickwad bully until someone finally stands up to him/her.

However, kicking a person in the junk is a hell of a lot easier than taking a massive corporation to court.

 

[Fappy]

People at EA control the servers, so they can ban with impunity, since it's not something you go to court over.

That's the real problem. It's like a bully situation. He or she will be a total dickwad bully until someone finally stands up to him/her.

However, kicking a person in the junk is a hell of a lot easier than taking a massive corporation to court.

Haha, well put. I agree completely.

Though at this juncture I think it would easier to just not use Origin altogether and when EA attempts to find out why its not being used we'll let them know we don't want to deal with their shit.

 

[SajuukKhar]

"I agree that I have read and understood the EULA" Accept/Decline

Seems pretty easy to me.

So you want them to give you a EULA, which is on the disk, and accept the EULA, which is on the disk, before you pay for the game and thus can open the box?

So i'm supposed to get a disk out of a box, put it in my machine, accept the EULA, and then buy the game?

Sense your not making any.
.
.
Unless you mean they force stores that sell games to have automated machines that you go up to, type in the name of the game, then accept it on there?

But then there is the tricky part about them lying about who they are so publishers cant find them.

 

[noobodie]

You actually do have the option of reading the EULA before you purchase a game.

And since that still doesn't guarantee that the user read the EULA before buying the game, it's still not enforceable in court.

"Reasonable doubt".

The ONLY way to guarantee it, is to force the customer to read and agree to the EULA before the payment-transaction is made. This is a requirement in Contract Law common to both the United States and the UK.

I'm sure most members of the EU have similar takes as well.

I am honestly going to have to disagree with that. They give you the choice of reading it before hand and if you choose not to then oh well. Just because you do not read a contract before agreeing to it does not mean it is not enforceable. With PC games its a non issue since you have to agree to it before you install the game. Its not actually the time of purchase that matters for PC games but when you install them since you are buying the game from an unrelated third party. For console games on the other hand its a very iffy subject in the end comes down to what mood the judge is in.

And then you don't get your money back for the PC game, because you opened it. You had to open it to read the EULA.

 

[Wolfram23]

People at EA control the servers, so they can ban with impunity, since it's not something you go to court over.

That's the real problem. It's like a bully situation. He or she will be a total dickwad bully until someone finally stands up to him/her.

However, kicking a person in the junk is a hell of a lot easier than taking a massive corporation to court.

Haha, well put. I agree completely.

Though at this juncture I think it would easier to just not use Origin altogether and when EA attempts to find out why its not being used we'll let them know we don't want to deal with their shit.

But... but... Battlefield 3!

Actually EA screwed me over. Ok, granted, partially my fault... basically I had a BioWare (and apparently EA) account because I had to register to get my DA2 freebies including Mass Effect 2. I don't remember all the details of that, exactly. Anyway, so BF3 is coming out. I bought it from Direct2drive and then activated my code on Origin. However, I didn't remember/realize that I had this EA aka Bioware account that is the same thing so I made a new one. Now, I have BF3 on one account and ME2, Dead Space 2 (no idea how that happened) and 1 other game (maybe Spore??) on the other account.

So I contact Origin support - the live chat thing - and tell him the situation. They say "sorry, too bad". I ask "can you just delete/ban my BF3 key and give me a new one so I can register it on the other account?"

"No"

GAH! So I can't merge accounts, I can't transfer a game, and they don't even have the decency of just giving me a new key and banning the old one (which should be easy as hell). I have a screecap of this convo at home... but anyway... wtf!