Modern Gamers Unimpressed by Miyamoto

[Mark Hardigan]

Calling the creator of Mario a "talentless hack" just because he hasn't created anything you've liked in recent years is the equivalent of calling Tolkien a "talentless hack," because he's dead and therefore cannot write any more LOTR novels.

Myamoto, whether he has created anything noteworthy in the past decade or so, is not a talentless hack. A talentless hack would not have created Mario. That's a pretty cut and dry case right there. Has his latest work been less than inspired? That's a debate for another time, but calling him a talentless hack because you dislike the games that Nintendo has made in recent years is nothing short of silly.

Personally, I agree that Nintendo hasn't released a well-done internally-developed game in a very long time. But that has everything to do with business and lack of creativity, nothing to do with talent or lack thereof.

 

[Aeonknight]

Since when was the whole "rehash" concept an insult? If it was a good game before, I'll pay for a variation of a good game as long as the tweaks they make improve the experience further.

Mario/Pokemon are rehashes of themselves.

CoD is a rehash of itself.

Half life 2 was split into 3 games, all being near 100% identical.

Skyrim is a rehash of Oblivion which is a rehash of morrowind. Only thing that improved was graphics and "combat".

Persona 4 is a rehash of 3, same character archetypes.


And you know what? Those are all still good games in their own right. There's no true innovation in them, but they're enjoyable to play. that's all that matters.

 

[Strain42]

Title should read "modern gamers easily offended by legitimate criticism from people who probably know what they're talking about."

As usual, I agree with Samuel L. Jackson eating a hamburger.

And I'm actually confused, just what is it that Miyamoto is doing or saying that's pissing people off? He's not like the Braid guy who only made one title and acted like he knows what's best for the industry, this is a guy who helped form the industry.

But like the only thing I've heard him say lately was him talking about how he thinks the Vita needs more games, and even in that article he was talking about how he actually likes the Vita and wants it to succeed, and even acknowledged that the 3DS had the same problem so he wasn't even being a hypocrite about it.

I wasn't aware that someone who knows what they're talking about in a particular field saying "I like [insert object here] but [legitimate criticism here]." warranted such hatred...

 

[rob_simple]

Reading through what he said I find it hard to disagree with him.

Time is precious and to spend a great deal of time playing a game it had better be worth it? Check

I can't recall the last Nintendo game I played that wasn't a complete waste of time due to it being a rehash of a previous title.

Lots of games coming out and there might not be that many you really like the look of? Check

That's just the nature of the market. Gaming has expanded to an almost universal hobby, and with that comes an increased amount of shovelware.

Becoming more difficult to actually give gamers that wow factor than it used to be? Checkarooni.

It's pretty difficult to 'wow' a gamer when they've seen all the tricks you keep in your party hat at least a dozen times over.

Now, there are a lot of criticisms to be made against him and Nintendo, but still in this case, the guy has a point, like it or not.

He has a point but it's the same as me saying 'rapists are bad people' it's so obvious that there's no need to bring it up. Miyamoto seems like a lovely man but in all honesty I think he's had his day an would save some dignity by just retiring now.

The old head of Nintendo made far more interesting arguments a few years ago when he said [words to the effect of] consoles are going to destroy themselves because they are pushing the hardware limitations too far to make games look really good instead of fun to play, which is in turn driving up costs. Damned if I can find the link now, though.

Also, I loved people pulling up the OP on the wordplay in his title and ignore his actually rather valid points about a washed-up game guru trying to stir up controversy to still appear relevant in this day and age.

 

[teh_Canape]

Mario not innovative?

Spoiler

In comparison with the old 2D mario
-Nice looking visuals
-Different plot (Seriously the princess isn't even "kidnapped")
-Different game mechanics (combat is completely different)
-Great story

How can you compare these innovations to COD?
-New gun
-New Perk
-New map

I'm not going to add story or visuals into this COD list because it's a shooter game for crying out loud the story is going to be pretty predictable and generic (Not their fault just inevitable) and the visuals for the latest COD actually had some complaints for being worse than a previous title.

this is a point that not often gets brought up
granted, they usually revolve around the main Mario games, but they disregard the RPGs as if they didn't exist
the RPGs of Mario all have not only different strong stories, but also tend to stray away from the "norm"
like how in Super Mario RPG you save Peach very early and then she joins your party to go after the real villain
know what I mean? =P

 

[Therumancer]

I've read a lot of stuff saying the same basic thing, though I think claiming to speak for all modern gamers is a bit arrogant, even by my standards, and I talk about being part of large groups of people with similar opinions all the time.

I think his products are fine, there is no reason to fix what isn't broken, it's sort of like how I defend turn based RPGS as being perfect at what they set out to do, and effectively timeless as a genere. That said, when someone who has ceased to evolve starts making predictions and analysis based on parts of an industry he has no involvement with, it's pretty awkward, and that's Miyamoto's problem, the niche that has made him famous (which he has wisely stayed in), has also put him out of context with the rest of the industry or gaming culture. That said, I imagine there will always be an audience for Mario, at least within his lifetime, so it isn't a big deal for him to be considered important within the industry, he just needs to be more careful about commenting on things outside of his sphere and in doing so sticking his foot into his mouth.

That said, one thing about Miyamoto's design is that he seems to aim for timelessness, his games are as relevent now content wise, as they were when they were when he made them due to them being so fantastic and surreal. A lot of the big games now are so fully "of the moment" that they are going to lose all relevency in a few years. In say 20 years I don't think anyone will really find much connection to say "Modern Warfare 3", but they will probably still be playing Super Mario Brothers in one form or another.

 

[Zaik]

I agree, he is the pot calling the kettle black.

and lol @ almost the entire first page being nintendo fans rushing to his defense.

 

[Sancrkf]

I'm staying out of this debate, but I felt I must point something out.

Skyward Sword made me love Miyamoto again

See this? This is why we can't have nice things.

Skyward Sword was a potentially excellent game, with a good amount (for a Zelda title) of new ideas, that was utterly ruined by a godawful and gimicky control scheme. Anyone that actually liked the game is provably wrong.

Nintendo needs to realize that motion controls are pointless gimmicks that do nothing but distract the player from enjoying the game. Once they do that, they may actually make decent games again.

I really liked Skyward Sword and I don't think the motion controls in that game were gimmicky. I think something is a gimmick only when it's not necessary. Can you imagine playing Skyward Sword with a normal controller without changing the gameplay? I sure can't.

I don't mind motion controls. I'm not a big fan of it, but it doesn't bother me, specially when done right, like in Skyward Sword (in my opinion anyway). Still, I like the way Nintendo has been trying to evolve lately, trying to find new ways to play games instead of only upgrading the hardware to push better graphics.

Maybe motion controls aren't the future, but at least Nintendo is trying something different.

 

[Snotnarok]

I'm stumped people are comparing CoD to Zelda? Here's a thought, compare other Zelda inspired games with Zeldas. Granted CoD has made some advancements but, 15 dollar map packs don't help the game any.

Okami vs Zelda: till TP came out I think Okami stomped it. Totally different character, a neat setting, amazing style. The game just has a lot going for it.

Darksiders vs Zelda: I liked it a lot, different artstyle, different setting. It was similar to Zelda/Metroid/Devil May Cry/ God of War sure but it was different enough to be interesting and pulled off it's own style very well that just made you keep going.

The games took an idea and tried something new with it, not the same characters, the same land the same bloody story and they made the games unique given their insperation and that's really neat. While Zelda has just been doing the same thing over and over since the NES minus the jump to 3D. And I've played them so don't give me "it's the experience" if you wanted that, play the last one and save yourself 50 bucks, or just play Twilight Princess because it's by far the best one.

I'm still stumped why people say Ocarina of Time is the best considering they give you no reason to help the world, everyone there are idiots minus maybe the cowgirl and the green haired girl. The adventure which was fine, and it controlled well (for the N64 controller of course) but I never felt compelled to do anything because everyone in Hyrule were morons. I just felt NO reason to move on and help out.

Twilight Princess (to me) is better in every, single, way. More moving characters, bigger crazier dungeons and what not, and you felt accomplishment when doing something.

But that's WHY each Zelda game is different, how could they not if different people will have a different idea about which is superior. Going on a limb from your fondness for Okami, perhaps it was the cohesive setting and atmosphere that attracted you to Twilight Princess? I myself preferred the off-beat unsettling style of Majora's Mask, and each game in the franchise has something going for it like that. It's not just style either, Majora's Mask featured a 3 day cycle that had different events occurring at set or player-defined intervals and really nailed the open-ended and linear plot styles in ONE game. Compare that to other series, like, and I'm starting to get tired of bringing these up, Pokemon and CoD. They have a more static feel and setting but update the mechanics and fine-tune them until half the fanbase thinks it's ruined forever and the other half will keep buying them until the heat death of the universe.

Heh heh. Captcha: save yourself

I'm sorry I played through Link to the Past, OoT, MM, WW, TP and the thing they're the same story with the same elements told with a slightly different twist. MM did a some things different and (opinion here) it was just awful, nothing was good about that game minus the combat maybe. It was just frustrating.
But it's always the same characters with a similar story with the same arsenal, against the same antagonist. Even if it's not directly Gannon (Zelda 2/Skyward Sword) it either leads to Gannon or has something to do with it.

They can easily do something different, let's just say keep the Master Sword for the sake of keeping constancy, have a different hero doing a different task. So first one, Link saves the day with the sword and shield, then the next game it's a girl with black hair and a two sword style, thus the Master Sword now is two shorter swords, then the next game it's a burlier fellow with a two handed sword. A mage who wields a staff now wields a sort of dagger variant of it. Ninja, Mage, Knight, Thief, Heavy, Light they could do so much.

And they could all line up as a really neat story of generations. But instead, Link, Zelda, Gannon, Hyrule, wake up, bad event, must find sword, elemental temples, master sword, save the day.

Yes, they do some things different, but when you get down to it, it's very much the same story told with a different spin, almost you could say how someone else might tell the story. However it's the same guy telling a slightly different story. I am NOT saying Zelda is bad (Majoras Mask being the exception, maybe Zelda 2) but personally, they're mostly well made games that typically tell the story well (Twilight Princess was very well done with the story) I'd love to see a twist where they do something different and creative where there's a different cast that gets a shot.

 

[RedDeadFred]

Hm, I'd still rather play anything, anything "rehashed" by Miyamoto.than most of.the current modern stuff on the market.

Zelda will always rule supreme.

Hah, if Zelda rules supreme something like the Witcher must be the fucking emperor of the multiverse. If you can't tell I've never found a Nintendo game worth playing.

Pretty much this. Nintendo is good for platformers and that's about it. Their action RPG's like Zelda just get blown out of the water by some of the games on the other consoles. Probably because they keep doing pretty much the exact same thing with most of their games like the OP said.

 

[pure.Wasted]

Considering the capability gap between something like the DS, which fits in your hand, and at least an Xbox 360 and your graphics whinge sort of falls on its arse: thats like complaining that a Honda Civic isn't as good as a Ferrari F430 by virtue of both having engines, four wheels and a steering system.

So... um... make games for the Wii? Make games for the laptop? Not seeing the problem, here.

As for Myiomoto, well, I've played the man's games and they have brought me great joy. He's made his mark and paid his dues. And as a man in the industry, he probably knows more on the subject than you or I.

Nnnno, not really. Don't get me wrong - I'm happy that you loved his stuff, I am. But what if I said to you, "Michael Bay, working in the film industry, probably knows more about film than you or I"? Does that sound like a good argument? He might know more about things like "how to shoot film" and "how to market film"... but film in general? What makes one good and another one bad? You're gonna have a very hard time of convincing me that Michael Bay knows anything at all, let alone more than I do.

I'm not saying that the games Miyamoto makes aren't fun. I'm saying that Nintendo in general puts very little effort into trying to do new things with the gaming medium that have never been done before. With Bethesda it's always "a bigger, broader world." With Bioware it's always "a more compelling world." With IG it's "a more rich world, infused with more ideas and themes that express themselves through every element of game design." With Nintendo it's "fun." ... ... The problem is, everyone else makes fun games too, and updates every sequel to be more fun and mechanically sound than the last game was, too, so where exactly does that leave Nintendo?

 

[BishopofAges]

To OP: It seems to me that you're arguement is that he 'shit on' these titles, I read the article and he formed his standpoint well and explained it fairly enough to be understood. You, sir, are 'shitting on' Miyamoto for not liking your games. No formulated arguement, no evidence, no other standpoint other than the looks of starting a flamewar. Sorry, but it's true.

Personally I can like or dislike what he had to say without starting a thread about it, and continue liking my games without needing validation of approval. If you cannot I am truly apologetic.

edit: as an after thought, your title probably had more thought put into it than your post...

 

[RedDeadFred]

Yay, another Nintendo hater passing off his idiotic dislike of sweet games as market analysis.

Shut up guys, seriously. You hate Nintendo, but they are a corporation that has been around much longer than you think. And they will out live you.

He has an opinion that is different from yours so you tell him to shut up. Classy...

A better approach might be to make a counter argument and then back it up with some points to help validate it.

 

[zefiris]

Yay, another Nintendo hater passing off his idiotic dislike of sweet games as market analysis.

Shut up guys, seriously. You hate Nintendo, but they are a corporation that has been around much longer than you think. And they will out live you.

Disliking someone in a company does not mean you hate the company as a whole.

This console war nonsense is so ridiculous at this point...

 

[Cheesepower5]

They can easily do something different, let's just say keep the Master Sword for the sake of keeping constancy, have a different hero doing a different task. So first one, Link saves the day with the sword and shield, then the next game it's a girl with black hair and a two sword style, thus the Master Sword now is two shorter swords, then the next game it's a burlier fellow with a two handed sword. A mage who wields a staff now wields a sort of dagger variant of it. Ninja, Mage, Knight, Thief, Heavy, Light they could do so much.

This calls for Manly Link

But it demonstrates your post, they could even have variations on link instead of the same character...again...and again...

Make it happen Nintendo.

And to, y'know, address the guy that quoted me: I know MM had its flaws, and yes the PLOT of each successive Zelda is more or less the same. But it's the presentation, the skill-set(Yeah, there's a bow and sword in pretty much every game, but you still get cool stuff like finishers, the ball and chain or bombchus) and the journey that sets each one apart. I agree that it'd kinda be cool to have like, TANK LINK or NINJA LINK ot PERSON WHO'S NOT LINK, but then it wouldn't really be the fairy tale adventure game Zelda strives to be. I mean, you could still be Tank, I guess. But would the adventure formula suit it? You'd be slower, less capable of performing acrobatic feats and really, why not just smash through all those annoying puzzles and locked doors? The ninja sort seems a bit better suited to the genre, but even then it poses questions like "why fight evil when you can sneak past?" Really what they should do is try their hand at some different style game in the same universe. A spin-off. They can still put out a classic adventure with Link but maybe have some sort of RPG or strategy game exploring Hyrule as a world? Or a Gerudo stealth game. Zora underwater sand box? How about Deku tower defense. That way they could explore the possibilities of the IP without interfering with its main point.

 

[wintercoat]

They can easily do something different, let's just say keep the Master Sword for the sake of keeping constancy, have a different hero doing a different task. So first one, Link saves the day with the sword and shield, then the next game it's a girl with black hair and a two sword style, thus the Master Sword now is two shorter swords, then the next game it's a burlier fellow with a two handed sword. A mage who wields a staff now wields a sort of dagger variant of it. Ninja, Mage, Knight, Thief, Heavy, Light they could do so much.

This calls for Manly Link

But it demonstrates your post, they could even have variations on link instead of the same character...again...and again...

Make it happen Nintendo.

And to, y'know, address the guy that quoted me: I know MM had its flaws, and yes the PLOT of each successive Zelda is more or less the same. But it's the presentation, the skill-set(Yeah, there's a bow and sword in pretty much every game, but you still get cool stuff like finishers, the ball and chain or bombchus) and the journey that sets each one apart. I agree that it'd kinda be cool to have like, TANK LINK or NINJA LINK ot PERSON WHO'S NOT LINK, but then it wouldn't really be the fairy tale adventure game Zelda strives to be. I mean, you could still be Tank, I guess. But would the adventure formula suit it? You'd be slower, less capable of performing acrobatic feats and really, why not just smash through all those annoying puzzles and locked doors? The ninja sort seems a bit better suited to the genre, but even then it poses questions like "why fight evil when you can sneak past?" Really what they should do is try their hand at some different style game in the same universe. A spin-off. They can still put out a classic adventure with Link but maybe have some sort of RPG or strategy game exploring Hyrule as a world? Or a Gerudo stealth game. Zora underwater sand box? How about Deku tower defense. That way they could explore the possibilities of the IP without interfering with its main point.

I would like to see them do a Trine-esque Zelda. You've got three people linked together by a powerful force, use it! Link is a jack-of-all-trades medium fighter with little magic skill, relying on his bag of tricks to augment his fighting skills. Ganon's a brute force heavy fighter with some magic skill. Zelda's a light fighter with skill in magic, specializing in long range combat. Have puzzles tailored to using each of their skills.

Have Demise resurrected, where we find that Ganon was a pawn in his schemes. Ganon goes all "I AM NOT YOUR PAWN!!!" and joins forces with Link and Zelda.

 

[Snotnarok]

They can easily do something different, let's just say keep the Master Sword for the sake of keeping constancy, have a different hero doing a different task. So first one, Link saves the day with the sword and shield, then the next game it's a girl with black hair and a two sword style, thus the Master Sword now is two shorter swords, then the next game it's a burlier fellow with a two handed sword. A mage who wields a staff now wields a sort of dagger variant of it. Ninja, Mage, Knight, Thief, Heavy, Light they could do so much.

This calls for Manly Link

But it demonstrates your post, they could even have variations on link instead of the same character...again...and again...

Indeed Genzoman makes some great stuff.
I found if you want different variations on Zelda games you need to look elsewhere.
Okami and Darksiders are two good 3D variants that are similar

Beyond Oasis (genesis) and Legend of Oasis (saturn) are another two that are similar but do their own things.

It's really proof that you can do much more but they want safe, which I thought Nintendo wasn't about.