Modern gaming... is this decline actually a real decline in quality? or are we fooled by nostalgia?

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Triforceformer

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Nostalgia. I played Twilight Princess and Super Mario Galaxy before Ocarina of Time or Super Mario 64, and the First two were better in every god damn way. Ocarina of time was good in its own right, but Super Mario 64 was just shit to me. Believe it or not, i'm actually looking forward to most of the mario games announced at E3 and then some...I have probably alienated this entire website by now.
 

itsnotyouitsme

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Dec 27, 2008
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All of the above. The whole reason we have nostalgia is because they keep the best titles and fit them into every gaming system, even unintentionally at times. For instance, the DS made mario 64 again but added new characters for some reason. meanwhile the wii made it so you can get old games and play them. that means Ocarina of Time and sonic 2.
Meanwhile, on the subject. I don't judge a game on the standard of other games which is why i generally like new games. Trying to put every FPS up against the halo series is horrible. It's the NEWness that should attract. The classic must of exploration that should never be hindered by wanting to play a game you can already clear of legendary.
 

Taerdin

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Real decline. Maybe not to the extent some people would claim, but I just don't have as much FUN with games anymore. I pine for the day when a game actually hooks me again, and I can't stop playing the thing. That used to happen almost regularly on my Playstation, and I still have my collection of amazing Playstation rpgs beside my computer... now and then I stare at them longingly and remember better times.

I'm not saying theres NO good games, but I definitely had more fun with games in the past than I do right now.
 

oppp7

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There are still good games coming out. Lets not forget that the time periods that we think of as nostalgic had their problems, like ET and Virtuo Boy (sic).
 

j0z

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Fauxity said:
j0z said:
I think it is a combination of both, because amazing games are still being released, Bioshock (so what if it was not as deep as SS2? Go play Fallout 3 if you want an inventory screen!)
Well that's awfully unfair. It WAS a sequel, keep in mind.

As for the question: I'd say that we're really not taking advantage of the technology we currently possess to make the games as best as we could if we wanted to. There's something to be said for nostalgia, but maybe we're nostalgic because they were doing something right.
What was a sequel? Why I mentioned Fo3 was because I have heard people complain about Bioshock not being as deep as SS2, "dumbed down", if you will. SS2 was more of a RPG/FPS hybrid, while Bioshock was a shooter with RPG elements. I loved all 3 games, I haven't been able to finish SS2 because I haven't gotten it working on my Vista. :(
 

Amnestic

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Aug 22, 2008
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Taerdin said:
Real decline. Maybe not to the extent some people would claim, but I just don't have as much FUN with games anymore. I pine for the day when a game actually hooks me again, and I can't stop playing the thing. That used to happen almost regularly on my Playstation, and I still have my collection of amazing Playstation rpgs beside my computer... now and then I stare at them longingly and remember better times.

I'm not saying theres NO good games, but I definitely had more fun with games in the past than I do right now.
Have you tried actually playing them rather than just staring at them longingly? You might find that they're not quite as good as you initially thought. I had that when I went back and replayed FFVII. Oh it's not bad but it's not nearly as mindbogglingly brilliant as I thought. Same for a few other games I played.
 

Taerdin

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Amnestic said:
Taerdin said:
Real decline. Maybe not to the extent some people would claim, but I just don't have as much FUN with games anymore. I pine for the day when a game actually hooks me again, and I can't stop playing the thing. That used to happen almost regularly on my Playstation, and I still have my collection of amazing Playstation rpgs beside my computer... now and then I stare at them longingly and remember better times.

I'm not saying theres NO good games, but I definitely had more fun with games in the past than I do right now.
Have you tried actually playing them rather than just staring at them longingly? You might find that they're not quite as good as you initially thought. I had that when I went back and replayed FFVII. Oh it's not bad but it's not nearly as mindbogglingly brilliant as I thought. Same for a few other games I played.
Yes I do from time to time. I actually replay through my first rpg fairly regularly.

Also I'm not the kind of person who's into overhyped not-as-quality games like you. I'm not talking about FFVII where everyone was singing its praises as though it was the second coming, I mean games I had to go out of my way to find out about, few people I knew every heard of, and are actually rather spectacular.
 

bluepilot

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It is not that games are getting worse, it is just that when us golden oldies (now in our twenties) first held that gray brick of a gameboy or the small controler of the sega, we were transported to a different world.

Times were different back then. We did not have the multimedia systems in our bedrooms like children have today. Mostly, we could just buy one console or would go to a friends house because our families were a little worse off. Games were less and were expensive. So you could not really buy games for yourself. You would have to wait and wait until Christmas just to get that game you wanted. It was a kind of magic when you opened that box on Christmas day to find sonic staring back at you or mortal Kombat.

These days, it is not that kids today are less poor than we were, but the world has just changed. Entertainment is much more easier to afford and the games industry is oversaturated. It is hard to get excited about a game because there are always so many other games. Kids can now afford to have their own laptop and maybe two consoles. We are all so used to being surrounded by technology that the magic is gone. It is not that games are getting worse, but expectations are getting higher.

I am sorry for the blinding nostalgia, but nothing will ever replace sonic and echo the dolphin on the sega or Zelda and mario on the gameboy. That magic is still there. It sticks
 

DRADIS C0ntact

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I definitely think we're clouded by nostalgia. For a long time I used to think that Final Fantasy VII was the greatest game ever made. I recently downloaded it on PSN and started playing through it again...and my opinion has changed. It's certainly good, but I noticed flaws that I never noticed when it first came out. To compare it with the most recent modern game I played, Batman: Arkham Asylum, I can confidently say that Arkham is the better game.
 

Amnestic

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Aug 22, 2008
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Taerdin said:
Amnestic said:
Taerdin said:
Real decline. Maybe not to the extent some people would claim, but I just don't have as much FUN with games anymore. I pine for the day when a game actually hooks me again, and I can't stop playing the thing. That used to happen almost regularly on my Playstation, and I still have my collection of amazing Playstation rpgs beside my computer... now and then I stare at them longingly and remember better times.

I'm not saying theres NO good games, but I definitely had more fun with games in the past than I do right now.
Have you tried actually playing them rather than just staring at them longingly? You might find that they're not quite as good as you initially thought. I had that when I went back and replayed FFVII. Oh it's not bad but it's not nearly as mindbogglingly brilliant as I thought. Same for a few other games I played.
Yes I do from time to time. I actually replay through my first rpg fairly regularly.

Also I'm not the kind of person who's into overhyped not-as-quality games like you.
I name one game I've played and apparently you can tell the entire library of not only the games I've bought but also those I haven't bought but still played and enjoyed?

You should take that psychic act on the road; 'cos that is impressive.
 

Daedalus1942

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TelHybrid said:
I've noticed a lot of threads with some comments saying that modern games aren't as good as classics, that we'll never again see the quality of such classics as Final Fantasy VII, Ocarina of Time, Sonic the Hedgehog 2, Half-Life 1, and some lesser known titles such as System Shock 2.

Are comments like these valid, or are many gamers simply clouded by nostalgia?
There is a decline, and I blame game developers. Videogames these days hold our hands the whole way through the game.
We've traded a genuine challenge for a unique experience. The only truly challenging games these days usually recieve poor reviews, and at the same time are severely broken.
If a game challenges people even in the slightest, it's deemed too hard and slandered by multiple critics.
 

PhiMed

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TelHybrid said:
I've noticed a lot of threads with some comments saying that modern games aren't as good as classics, that we'll never again see the quality of such classics as Final Fantasy VII, Ocarina of Time, Sonic the Hedgehog 2, Half-Life 1, and some lesser known titles such as System Shock 2.

Are comments like these valid, or are many gamers simply clouded by nostalgia?
They're clouded by nostalgia.

I played and loved Zelda, Link, and Link to the Past, but didn't have an N64 when Ocarina of time was released, so I played and completed Twilight Princess first. I was really excited when I found a GameCube disc that had Ocarina and Majora's mask (which I didn't get to play, either) on the same disc.

Popped it in, got ready to play... and was profoundly disappointed. I felt I'd already been here before, and everything looked, sounded, and controlled better when I was here last time.

I used to dismiss HL1 as crappy, because I had only played the console port. Someone told me that the port was terrible, but the PC version was great. So, being a HL2 fan, I got it on Steam. Guess what? The PC version sucks, too.

The simple fact is that people of a certain age have what's called "childlike wonder". This usually ends when you're in your preteens or early teens. Whatever era gaming was in when you left this phase of your life will always been "the best" or "the classics".

I'm 28, so I view Link to the Past as the greatest Zelda game of all time, and Super Mario World as the greatest Mario game. I Love Super Contra and Doom. I feel graphics and sound have gotten better, and storytelling has improved, but gameplay has consistently gotten worse. Do I think my viewpoints in any way represent objective reality? Absolutely not, and neither do the viewpoints of any of the other prematurely grumpy old men lamenting how things were so much better in the good old days.
 

Taerdin

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Amnestic said:
Taerdin said:
Amnestic said:
Taerdin said:
Real decline. Maybe not to the extent some people would claim, but I just don't have as much FUN with games anymore. I pine for the day when a game actually hooks me again, and I can't stop playing the thing. That used to happen almost regularly on my Playstation, and I still have my collection of amazing Playstation rpgs beside my computer... now and then I stare at them longingly and remember better times.

I'm not saying theres NO good games, but I definitely had more fun with games in the past than I do right now.
Have you tried actually playing them rather than just staring at them longingly? You might find that they're not quite as good as you initially thought. I had that when I went back and replayed FFVII. Oh it's not bad but it's not nearly as mindbogglingly brilliant as I thought. Same for a few other games I played.
Yes I do from time to time. I actually replay through my first rpg fairly regularly.

Also I'm not the kind of person who's into overhyped not-as-quality games like you.
I name one game I've played and apparently you can tell the entire library of not only the games I've bought but also those I haven't bought but still played and enjoyed?

You should take that psychic act on the road; 'cos that is impressive.
I didn't say I know the entire content of the games you play, I'm just not one of those FFVII fans. Sorry I offended you by calling it overhyped... even though it is.

PhiMed said:
Popped it in, got ready to play... and was profoundly disappointed. I felt I'd already been here before, and everything looked, sounded, and controlled better when I was here last time.
Thats just 'too much Zelda' syndrome. Really, they're all the same game, some people notice it sooner than later. I play link to the past and couldn't touch another zelda game after that. It doesnt matter if I'm collecting pieces of crystal, or musical instruments, its still just walking into similar dungeons, where the item I find in the dungeon is conveniently exactly what I need to complete it and defeat a boss. Its still the same boomerang, training sword -> master sword, etc. I can't stand that series, and feel like it needs to try something radically new to stay fresh. But most people are perfectly happy with mediocrity anyways, and will just come back to the familiar setting/dungeons again and again.
 

craftyfirestorm

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i reckon its about half and half. while there is alot of bad games these days theres been bad games for a long time, the difference is that we've only remembered the classic gems when we look back
 

Fauxity

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j0z said:
Fauxity said:
j0z said:
I think it is a combination of both, because amazing games are still being released, Bioshock (so what if it was not as deep as SS2? Go play Fallout 3 if you want an inventory screen!)
Well that's awfully unfair. It WAS a sequel, keep in mind.

As for the question: I'd say that we're really not taking advantage of the technology we currently possess to make the games as best as we could if we wanted to. There's something to be said for nostalgia, but maybe we're nostalgic because they were doing something right.
What was a sequel? Why I mentioned Fo3 was because I have heard people complain about Bioshock not being as deep as SS2, "dumbed down", if you will. SS2 was more of a RPG/FPS hybrid, while Bioshock was a shooter with RPG elements. I loved all 3 games, I haven't been able to finish SS2 because I haven't gotten it working on my Vista. :(
Bioshock. Was a sequel to System Shock 2. It just didn't share the name. And more of a prequel really, but you get what I'm saying. It's in the same series of games.
 
May 28, 2009
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Not true in any sense. I look at some of the games I used to play and love, and I am astounded at how bad they can really be. Nostalgia is a killer to be sure.

However, it is true that some devs just don't try. For example: SPARK, creators of Turning Point: Fall of Liberty, and the God-awful CoD: Finest Hour. These guys are the gaming equivalant of a venereal disease - you just don't want them.

Please bear in mind that I am not all for the new - in fact I love old classics such as the Monkey Islands, the Mother/Earthbound series (even if Mother 3 is fairly recent) and Deus Ex (I'm 16, so we're not all mainstream twonkers at this age group). It's just that there are still a lot of great, future classics being made - games that are even better than the nostalgia-submerged ones we love, that we refuse to even acknowlege. Look at ratings PC Gamer gives early 90s games compared to nowadays, and how similar the averages are - there's always going to be shite on the market, but there's also always going to be absolute barrels of win too.

The level of quality has never truly changed, because there's always been a balance of bollocks and brilliance. Such is gaming.
 

Spitfire175

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I believe technically games are getting better and better. I imagine, it must be very hard to keep coming up with fresh ideas for an industry as diverse as gaming. If a game is done properly nowadays, it's far better than most old games.

Usually people just want to think they had better games back in the days they were toddlers. If we think about it, (you are going to hang me for this) Half Life didn't really have a groundbreaking new idea or a truly unique story. Aliens and marines, multiverse travel, an accident in a hi-tech facility... the list goes on. Nothing truly outstanding. Of course, it was all done in a whole new way and I really like it. But I still prefer Crysis or Call of duty 2 to it. Why? Because they are much nicer to play.

Now hold your horses with chopping me to tiny pieces for comparing Half Life to Crysis. First, think about it. In its time HL was outstanding, revolutionary and advanced. Wen we really start comparing the two, without the hell bent nostalgia attitude, Crysis is a more advanced and innovative game. Many people say it hasn't got a story. I admit, the focus isn't on the storytelling, but did HL have a great epic story? I wouldn't say so. In terms of gameplay, nearly any of the newer PC exclusive FPS games thrash HL. And it it's fun and games you're looking for, the nanosuit offers hundreds of ways to complete the game and fool around. And if explosions and overblown action isn't your thing and all you want is realism, I wouldn't look at HL: a physicist with no military training fights off battle hardened soldiers and climbs ladders using only his feet. I'd say the newer the games get, the more realistic they become.(Personally I believe the people who whine about Crysis being nothing but a showcase are the ones who cannot play it with their own computers that will only run HL2 on low graphics. Don't take offense, please.)

Altogether I would say games are getting more comfortable and fluent to play (for example, having a separate key for throwing a grenade, and not having to choose it separately), looking around corners, going prone and using the environment for your benefit.

Because the big money men have gotten hold of the gaming industry, the purpose is to make lots of money. And the big masses of baseball cap wearing, beer drinking console gamers will buy anything with lots of explosions, guns n' stuff, it's no wonder the majority of games have the focus on blowng things to tiny bits. The sort of thing you can high-five to when playing with some friends. The creative game designers, the sort of geniuses who made Planescape Torment, are forced to work for the big money men since that's the only way to make a living in the business. Classic case in point is Alan Wake, which was supposed to be creative and unique. Along come the money men with their XboX and plans for big sales. No more cool free roam horror/adventure games from the creators of Max Payne.

Some game studios do fight back with creations like Bioshock, The Witcher and Mass effect. Truly awesome games with new ideas and interesting non-linear storylines. Too bad they're often buried underneath the mountain of half-arsed action FPS explosions mania games. Good games are still baing made today, despite the rants of the nostalgia-purists. You just have to know where to look.
 

TotallyFake

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Jun 14, 2009
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Skeleon said:
It's a real decline.
Wow, one sentence. Good to see you put some thought in to your post.

One of the reasons that old games seem better is because only the truly great games survive. The Final Fantasy 7s, the Super Mario Worlds etc. Everything rubbish, or even just okay, fades into obscurity. It's like alternative/indie music. Anything you find after a brief search is going to be good, because those communities aren't going to keep their finest works well hidden.