Modern Warfare 2 Opening Is Real, Aussies Flip Out

[The_root_of_all_evil]

And honestly, I think you are dead, dead wrong. Was "Shock and Awe" nuke porn? No?

Not sure what you're referring to I'm afraid?

I'm only just in, so I'm trying to catch up with 6 pages as quickly as I can.

EDIT: Yup, that's the sequence in COD4 where the nuke detonates, your chopper crashes and you walk away from the wreckage only to drop dead from radiation poisoning.

Ok, if Scotth266 is right about what you were referring to, then no, it wasn't nuke porn because you're seeing the effects on your PoV.
If, as has been suggested, your PoV is the terrorist gunning down innocent civilians, take a look at some of the comments already in this thread.

People will play it to "off" some dumb civilians. The people who will look at it from the deep and meaningful way in which it may originally have been meant, will not be looking at it from "Oh, that's horrible" view of "Shock and Awe" imho.

Look at Starship Troopers, for instance. The original book is a scathing satire of warfare and the mentality behind it; but the film turned into "YAY!!! BUG HUNTS!!!"; almost glorifying the warfare. (without mentioning Doogie Howser, Space Nazi)

Maybe I am being unfair in saying the designers didn't mean it to be slavered over like Mass Effect's sex scenes; but I'm not convinced that it won't be. Perhaps I just don't have the faith in people that you do.

For a scene to capture the heart, as "Shock and Awe" did, (I googled it now that I've got reference), it needs to mirror the breakdown of player and character simultaneously. I honestly don't believe that you can create that illusion in that situation, especially when it's attached to a PoV that people cannot bond with.

The marine stumbling away could be you. That's why it feels so real.

I doubt any of us could actually be the terrorist IRL; and allowing us to, while sandwiched next to "kill all bad guys", feels like we've crossed that very thin line between reality and real world fantasy.

 

[Wandrecanada]

IF you're a flight attendant, not only do they not get to show any of the story about why the terrorists are doing it, or the fact that one of them is an undercover CIA agent, but that still brings it down to mere cutscene level, "Why is that character doing this?" That isn't the reaction they're going for. The developers want you to say "Oh my god, what have I done?"

And that is precisely why they want you to be the one pulling the trigger.

So you're saying that the endorsement of "ends justify the means," morality is ok especially when it's forced upon you? Also the whole 'don't have to shoot' thing is a non argument since it would break with the character's undercover CIA raison d'etre. The whole point is that you're supposed to be choosing to slaughter hundreds of innocents in order to inflitrate the terrorist group's highest echelons and prevent nuclear attacks.

This is not a decision at all. It is a scenario crafted by the game developers and forced upon the gamer. In fact it is such a non decision that you wouldn't actually be able to play the game without it occurring. Let's not forget also that they indicate you can skip said portion of the game, which begs the question; Why do we need to see this at all if they think it's unimportant enough to skip?

Bottom line here: This is a game created by a game company trying to make money. It's not being made to enlighten the people and it's form is only a vehicle for profit. These people are not Brenda Brathwaite and they're not doing this magnanimously. If they thought it was a weak enough plot point to skip, it was would have been fine in a sequence like the first game where you are only seeing through the eyes of the "victim". It would not dull the message to take us out from behind the trigger.

 

[TheRealCJ]

I think the Australian government getting upset about a game that isn't intended for children shouldn't be considered news anymore.

Although if the South Australian Attorney General is that peeved about a video game, they must not have any real problems in South Australia. Maybe he should be more concerned about the industries that pollute to the extent that the country starts to look like Mars.

http://www.theredwhiteandgreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/3945890936_471c862b2f.jpg

The country has always looked like mars.

 

[TheRealCJ]

12 should be 15.
15 should be 18.
18 should be 21.

Do you look 21? No sex and violence for you.
Do you look 18? No brief nudity and violence for you.
Do you look 15? No, you look like you are 10... go climb a tree, or throw sticks in the river.

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pooh_sticks

There should be no 12 certificate.

No brief nudity under 18 and no sex under 21? I was having sex by 17 and I was late to the game. There were already a few girls in my class who were pregnant by 16 and many had intercourse by 14. I'm not saying teenage pregnancy is a good thing, but let's face it, kids are exposed to sex long before 21, and they begin developing sexual behaviors in their preteen years.

Likewise for violence. I was 6 years old and watching cartoons that showed blood, violence, and death. I played war and cops and robbers as a kid and I thought guns were cool. Now, I see worse things than that on the 5 o'clock news. Frankly, I think if children saw what war and violence were really like at a younger age, it might actually mean something to them. For example, a friend recently showed me a security tape where they had brought in a suspect. The cop failed to pat him down and he happened to be packing a weapon. As soon as the cop left him alone in the interrogation room, he pulled out the gun and shot himself in the head. I'd never actually see a person die for real before, but believe me, it was chilling. It wasn't the glorious flash and bang that Hollywood shows us, it was just click, blood, and dead. It sure made me think differently about guns, violence, and death, and disturbing as it would have been to see at a young age, it would have opened my eyes to reality.


I think arbitrary age restrictions are meaningless. It's a parent's responsibility to determine how they want their kid to be introduced to our gruesome world, not some government committee's job. Categorize games by what kind of content they have, then let parents be the judge of what they'll allow their kids to play. And be prepared for the fact that, in the end, kids will always find a way to see it anyway, just like they managed to find daddy's porno mags and steal some of his scotch.

That's the point.

Unless it's substance related, you immediately have to remove 2 years from whatever age bracket something is in.

Is it R18+? Most 15-17 year olds are going to watch it, if it's PG-13, you can bet your ass that 11 year olds will think it's fantastic.

The problem is, that ratings have always been fairly loose when it comes to enforcement. So if you make a movie suitiable for 18 year olds rated to 21 year olds, people are going to step back and go "wait, should I really let my 17 year old watch this? It's pretty far out of his age bracket".

 

[Colonel Joson]

well at least they were also thinking of the feelings of squimish gamers by adding the option to skip it.

 

[Tairan]

well fuck them if they cant take what war is like its probally the most realistic war game i ever seen and they say its going to far whats next austraila trying to ban warfare seems unlikely

 

[kommunizt kat]

Did australia ban GTA, or Saints row? (series). Did anyone complain about the mindless gang violence in these games? (they did I think but the games weren't banned). So I dont think it will get banned... (well I'm not sure about GTA or saints row being banned in australia).

 

[kommunizt kat]

Hmm, I'm actually a little more interested in MW2 now. Enough to buy it? I don't know

my answer to that (it is also the answer to most of my questions) is "why not?".

 

[Valkatron]

So, all you idiots saying "Fuck you Australia" yadda yadda yadda, just go back under whatever rock you crawled out from under. There was no complaint from almost all the population, only from a religious group who said something along the lines of "Won't someone please think about the children?"

All the recent news about my fine country is only because of Atkinson, as soon as he dies/retires (soon i hope) we shall (hopefully) replace him with a person that is with the times, not living in the 1800's.

As someone has already posted; Do not take this out on the majority of the population, most of us are fine with games/movies/TV, all we ask for is an 18+ rating so we can be treated like the adults we are, not roped in with the young kids.

 

[Captain Pancake]

...

I fail to see how the game could encourage terrorism, as you would be spending most of the game hunting the bastards down.

 

[nYuknYuknYuk]

Yeah, it shouldn't be banned in Australia, but its not as if IW didn't see this coming. I'm pretty sure someone said, "Hey, a sequence where you kill innocents. I think people will take offense to this." Somebody had to have brought this up within IW, so they obviously had a good reason to keep it.

Just saying.

 

[Therumancer]

My opinions on Australia are well known. Personally I still think the problem is that nobody will stand up to their goverment. Apparently Australian gamers don't care for it, so as I've said before, it's up to some big companies to get things rolling bu organizing some protests.

As far as Modern Warfare 2 goes, all I can do is sit here in shocked disbelief at both how naive people are, and how little memory they have. Truthfully slaughtering civilians in games isn't even anything new, nor is playing an evil character.

In general if you want to influance a society, attacking the military isn't going to accomplish anything. You need to break the culture and the central belief structure by reducing it to complete disorganization. In a REAL war like we haven't seen for a long time, the entire point of engaging the military is to get through them to the civilians that they protect because that is where you do the REAL damage to the society your facing. By the same token, especially in a civilized society with modern media, one of the quickest ways to get what you want is to terrify the civilians into forcing the goverment to do what they want. You kill soldiers that isn't all THAT scary, blow up some day care centers and have everyone afraid their kid could be next and well.... that's terrorism in a nutshell. In the US however we'd sacrifice the daycare centers since even the lose of thousands of children isn't worth complying, because once you give into terrorists it simply encourages people to try the same thing again next time some group wants something.

I have not seen the intro, so I do not know how they portray things, but basically I figure if a terrorist is going to blow up an air strip... well... he's a terrorist, he wants to spread fear, this is how things work. This is supposed to be realistic right? Grow the heck up.

Honestly I think the various "antiseptic" games give people the wrong idea about warfare, and it's a good thing to see people treating it seriously.

Personally I have long awaiting someone finally making a game about what REALLY happened during the final days of World War II. A game where your not just fighting the Nazis, but also the Volkssturm, with kids, peasants, and women raggedly throwing everything they have at your advance. As you fight building to building you run into civilians, and randomly those you don't kill or "spare" wind up eventually getting weapons (improvised or otherwise) and attacking your side when your most vulnerable. Leading people to realize what REAL war is like and the fact that nobody just lays down and dies, The Volkssturm being the German equivilent of the kids who yelled "Wolverines!" and formed a resistance in "Red Dawn", albeit
a lot more desperate. I think teaching the people the right way, that war is NOT pretty, antiseptic, or morally clear... it's us or them, not good or evil, is the correct thing to do and will lead to more mature attitudes. Indeed I'll even go so far as to say that I actually think that is how kids should learn it. That way war will be avoided as much as possible, but when it happens it will be fought properly and without any illusions.


I sort of wanted to see the Fallujah game for a lot of these reasons.


At any rate, the big question here is of course going to be if Australia's attitudes on MW 2 will inspire a company to take action and rally the gamer based, or if like Valve we can expect another round of flag waving. Personally I think France should start sending out gift baskets of cheese and wine to game companies, after all they are kindred spirits.

 

[nYuknYuknYuk]

Hmm, I'm actually a little more interested in MW2 now. Enough to buy it? I don't know

my answer to that (it is also the answer to most of my questions) is "why not?".

Because it costs 70 goddamn dollars.

 

[Pimppeter2]

Hmm, I'm actually a little more interested in MW2 now. Enough to buy it? I don't know

my answer to that (it is also the answer to most of my questions) is "why not?".

Because I tend not to spend cash on things that I don't enjoy? That's why you don't see me sign up for the elephant wrestling class at my local community college...

I didn't like MW1 so I'm not sure if I will be a fan of 2

 

[Silva]

Oh for crying out loud, this isn't about children, it's about adults getting to play what they want to. If you're over 18 you should have access to such games. Especially when effort is clearly made to keep from glorifying a particular act.

I mean, seriously. If film does it, and books do it, why can't games do it? They're interactive, so what! That doesn't mean we're suddenly going to decide that a fictional thing that we control on a TV set has any semblance to reality.

Yes, insane people do this with films and novels all the time. The point is that they'd do it anyway, doesn't matter what medium you throw at them.

Australia seriously needs to chill the fuck out. Stop being attention whoring asshats.

Don't blame us. Blame the body that's doing this, and the people blocking the rating. And whoever reposts these article-oh wait, that'd include the website you're reading right now.

 

[kommunizt kat]

Did australia ban GTA, or Saints row? (series). Did anyone complain about the mindless gang violence in these games? (they did I think but the games weren't banned). So I dont think it will get banned... (well I'm not sure about GTA or saints row being banned in australia).

Make note:

MODERN WARFARE 2 HAS NOT, I REPEAT, NOT BEEN BANNED IN AUSTRALIA

I wish I knew how to make bigger text. It still has a classification of MA15+, so retailers are legally obliged to ask for ID when selling the game to anyone who looks younger than 15. What we have here is an advocacy group [http://www.youngmedia.org.au/index.htm] who thinks this will be bad for the children, and have called for the OFLC to review the rating given to Modern Warfare 2. They have no power to make this happen, and if Atkinson hadn't opened his trap, the government would have no part to play in this particular piece of theatre.

As I said before, unless IW pulled some shennanigans, the OFLC gave the rating of MA15+ well aware of the prologue level, and I would say is very unlikely to look at it again. Australians will be able to buy Modern Warfare 2 from their local games retailers on release day (November 10th, I think).

I DIDNT SAY IT WAS BANNED I was saying this to reassure that the game wouldnt be banned. Please, dont write a reply without really understanding it. Did I say that it was banned? I said it wouldnt... my exact words were " So I dont think it will get banned..."

 

[Amnestic]

I wish I knew how to make bigger text.

h1 /h1 in square brackets

Spoiler: Observe!

[HEADING=1]Like so[/HEADING]
[HEADING=2]h2 and /h2 also work[/HEADING]
[HEADING=3]And so on and so forth[/HEADING]
[h4]Think h4 is where it stops[/h4]