Money: The worst idea since murder.

[The Rockerfly]

SNIP

SNIPPY

You guys are so cute, trying to cheer me up. Im not down, more kinda drunk...friends came over with booze...thank you though. Sweet gestures.

Glad you liked them

 

[The Rockerfly]

There have been some...wrong ideas on the Escapist lately
Maybe someone should create a thread on how the world works

Thanks for volunteering, we look forward to picking apart your analysis! (Kidding)

Oh good God I'm not doing that, the wall of text will be ridiculous
You do it?

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

How is currency preventing advancement? I... I'm sorry the whole concept you just spewed out is just...It's so stupid and absurd that I can't even fathom a response. You want to make currency obsolete? Then what the fuck do we have, trade of goods? at that point you've obliterated all structure of business which is founded on currency and technology would cease to exist. What's the electric company's motivation? What's the oil company's motivation? What is YOUR fucking motivation, this thread makes no sense to me. WHO'S RESPONSIBLE THIS!

 

[The Rockerfly]

Snip

Creating a utopia just wouldn't work though, some small group will be unhappy. Some people may consider our contries utopia's and we see it as shit. Not everyone is going to be happy so they will try and change how the country works to make them happier, this will unbalence the country and other people will be unhappy
A utopia does not exist, not for everyone
Also it just seems some days people do not understand how the world works

the world spin on an "axis" around the sun. however the people on the surface do some strange and illogical things.

if a Dystopia is possible then a utopia is possible. yes a utopia is impossible inside of captialism and some even say in the monertary-system, thats why people think of alternative ideas's such as the "resource based economy".

http://www.thevenusproject.com/a-new-social-design/resource-based-economy

yes i know how the world works, i know how humans work, i know how money works but is this it? are we the best we can be? we created money, money has no value "we" give it value.

Exactly my point and even if we go the most logical way of creating a utopia for the largest group of people, some people will be miserable because it will go against their idea of a utopia.

In all fairess, you were not the OP who doesn't know, you sir are quite intelligent. I don't think we are at the best we can possibly be but until humans stop being selfish and people in power can stop lining their own pockets then a utopia will not be created though

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

Bill Clinton left the United States in one of the best financial states it has been in since the founding of the Country. George W. Bush took over and... here we are. Maybe going to war for eight years and spending trillions of dollars wasn't such a good idea.

The U.S had financial debts both pre- and post-Clinton. Also from a capitalistic standpoint the war was a good thing. Just imagine how many weapons manufacturers were filled with joy once they heard that a new war had been started.

They profit tremendously from war (while the rest of us don't). In a country based on capitalism, war will also be a matter of capitalism. But it will shoot everyone other than the arms manufacturers in the foot.

Oh I wouldn't say that. Up until mid July I lived without a fridge for a year, good exercise having to walk to the store daily though. I know we could have rented one, just never got around to it. Also I haven't slept in a bed beyond rare family visits in three/four years, as I do not own one. Granted with the way I sleep (I pass out on the couch or chair constantly) I really do not need one.

People would be amazed how people with capitalist mindsets have lived before life starting moving in their direction. I mean I was hardly without considering what I have, just noting that I have seen the bad side of capitalism.

Oh, "boohoo"! You say you had to live without a fridge for a year? Big deal.

There are people way more worse of than you are. When im saying "the butt-end of capitalism" im not talking about specific inhabitants in the capitalist nation. Im talking about the people affected by said capitalism. Like child labourers in third world countries having to fuel the capitalistic corporations in your country.

The african peasants being paid way too little for their goods, which are sold off at a much higher price in capitalistic countries.

The very fact that you can enjoy the boons of capitalism, comes from socialistic endavours (or did you pay for your schooling all by yourself? I hardly think so), and the fact that you stand on the shoulders of others who aren't as well off as you are.

-"I had to live without a fridge for a year. Man I was truly at the bottom then!" *facepalm*

Im sorry, I don't mean to offend you or to be condescending. It's just that you don't seem to see the bigger picture of capitalism or that your wealth is dependant on the continued poverty of others. Poverty which is way worse than having to live without a fridge for a year.

And this is a behaviour very common amongst capitalists. Some have just been misinformed. Others just callously don't care about the fact that people are dying of starvation because of capitalism.

Which of those are you?

 

[Sulu]

In Star Trek, Jean Luc Picard once mentioned in one of the films that Earth had stopped using a money system. This allowed the federation to be born.

So to all you nay sayers I say this, how could Star Trek possibly be wrong?

 

[chiggerwood]

The only problem with money these days is when it's fake.

Hence the current economic crisis in the United States. We print billions and billions of dollars that have no tangible backing.

Thank God I thought I was the only one seeing this, and it's trillions not billions (not trying to be a dick)

OT: Money has always existed in one form or another whether it's the paper currency of today or animal pelts of the cavemen days. Money has always been an integral part of society, any society that has tried to go without money Q.E.D. communism (see soviet Russia) has failed.

 

[vampirekid.13]

You are in the wrong place, posting socialist shit that no-one is agreeing with. You sir... HAVE FAILED!

if people werent ignorant and uninformed they woudlnt be saying "SOCIALISM IZ BAD YA I WUZ TOLD SO IN SKOOL MON" they would instead be arguing the pro's and cons of a new system and possibly not making themselves look uneducated.

 

[bjj hero]

All men have equal potential, but ultimately their worth is up to their choices and actions. That's the beauty of capitalism; you have the opportunity and incentive to better yourself.

Or sometimes Daddy can just buy your way to the top.

 

[Blanks]

Personally, i think we should go back to the barter system:
"i'll trade ya my socks for your 360" asks a kid "sure!" i'll say "that seems to about the amount it's worth"

(no i'm not bashing, it's an example)

 

[Jinx_Dragon]

to the general audience I need to point out something: He asked what should replace money. It is a good question, if nothing for a theoretical pondering. I can't think of something that will allow the economies of the world to flourish as they have if we replace money. The ideas I come up with are all just money in another form.

Good will to all men?

I'm at a loss as you can see....

The only problem with money these days is when it's fake.

Hence the current economic crisis in the United States. We print billions and billions of dollars that have no tangible backing.

I agree with this. The only value of money is a speculation that it is worth something... can someone see a problem with this? Knowing that markets have crashed, time and time again, all cause of speculation how hard is it to imagine that money may one day face the biggest crash of all. Particularly in today's markets with the invent of the euro as another, massive, world wide currency.

But strangely... it survives. Money survives because no one wants to break the dream that that bit of paper (plastic here) is worth something. In reality it is worth even less then it's face value, seeing the printing alone means there is minimal other uses we have for currency.

And in some coin cases it is even more valuable to melt down the currency and turn it into something else.

PS: How do people accept the idea of letting a private organisation print money and then LOANING it to you as a good thing?

 

[Xvito]

Where is that darn quote...? Ah, there it is!

Money is only a tool. I will take you wherever you wish, but it will not replace you as the driver

I could sit here all day long, quoting Ayn Rand, but I really don't have the time...

 

[Jinx_Dragon]

All men have equal potential, but ultimately their worth is up to their choices and actions. That's the beauty of capitalism; you have the opportunity and incentive to better yourself.

Or sometimes Daddy can just buy your way to the top.

This is the true flaw in capitalism, particularly when it has a strong beurocrap backing like today's organisations run on. Once upon a time if you where good at something you could use that skill to start a business, get an apprenticeship or something. Your skill could be utilised to achieve a comfortable way of life, never would be great unless you where exceptional enough to break through the glass ceiling the merchant families had in place to protect their business interests... but if it was there you could make something of yourself.

Now you need a bit of paper! The only way to get that bit if paper is to PAY MONEY to someone. Not just a little money, but a lot of it. Many people who might be some of the worlds best doctors, scientists, engineers and so forth can NOT get the bits of paper they need. Not cause they are not skilled enough to do so, but because circumstances of their births have ensured they won't have enough money to do so.

While at the same time a good deal of the organisations, particuarly the 'best schools to go to,' care very little for anything but that money. As long as you have the money they will let you study there, regardless of how good you are, and even graduate you if not doing so will put a blow into their check books. This is why a brain dead drug addict could come out of a ivy league school without trying at all: One of the buildings where named after his family after donating laaarge sums of money to said school.

Money can buy you anything, even things it never should be able to....

Sadly this isn't new, I am reminded of the very first medical malpractice law suit. The 'doctor' should never have been able to practice but he was a friggen son of a rich man and it would of been 'scandalous' for the school to not graduate him.

 

[Spitfire175]

Heres what we need: Socialism.

Everyones so against socialism for uninformed reasons but its a great thing in the right hands. For example, why does a man who lugs around heavy boxs all day, works all day, and comes home tired make less money than a man who sits at a desk all day? Socialism would make it so all men were truly equal. Capitalism give false equality, socialism gives real equality.

Because if those men traded places, the man who originally had the desk job would be able to carry boxes just as well as the other man, and the other man would likely have no fucking clue how to do whatever it is that the man with the desk job did.

Socialism and communism are fundamentally flawed in the way that they look at human beings. All men are not equal. All men have equal potential, but ultimately their worth is up to their choices and actions. That's the beauty of capitalism; you have the opportunity and incentive to better yourself.

Bull. The man at the desk would struggle under the weight of those boxes and the man with the boxes would struggle with the computer. Not all men are created equal, but we all deserve an equal share because what we do is equally important.

Not true. What about the third man, who couldn't be bothered to work? Do you want to pay for his living, even when he has had an opportunity to work. Besides, I think the office worker would get himself a froklift and do the lifting much quicker.

Vuljatar is absolutely right. All men have the same chances and right of pursuiting a desired quality of life in a manner they see fit. As long as it doesn't contradict with anyone else's equal rights. Socialism kills this and says: if someone is good at something, he won't be rewarded for it, instead we take more from him and give less. It's not equality to take from those who can do better and give it to those who can't/won't bother. Everyone would just stop working properly: the better ones who earn more wouldn't bother, since they would not be able to enjoy the fruits of their labour, the less fortunate ones would think "gee, I don't have to improve or work harder, I get money anyway". Socialism means holding everyone back so that the entire society works on the terms of the slowest and weakest. Sounds awful, but that's inequal, wrong and doesn't work.

 

[razer17]

There is no way to have a proper society without money.
Why would one person work as waste disposal man, whilst another works as a manager, when they both get the same reward of... no money

 

[Woodsey]

The majority of money as I understand it is a computer variable.

I was thinking the same.

And getting rid of money would be a stupid idea - the entire economy is based around money; what do you want people to do, start trading with chickens and cows again?

When it comes to technological advances, you're completely wrong in terms of the fact that money is actually a very good idea. If money wasn't there, then the (extensive) resources that can sometimes be very precious would be easy to get hold of and they'd run out a lot quicker.

On a smaller scale, it's an incentive for people to work, and much of society is based around it. Obviously there's the argument that people will do ANYTHING for money (murder and what not) but everything has a flip side.

My thoughts anyway. Also, I had a really good closing line and I've completely forgotten it. Don't you hate it when that happens?

 

[JoshGod]

go to hell of course its not

 

[zuluking187]

Oh shut up you brainwashed yankee twats.

Looking at their profiles the first person you quoted is Australian, the other two don't list theirs. So you're wrong about one, and have no way knowing about the other two.

So what made you assume they're American? Your belief that anyone who doesn't agree with you is American? Was it your bigotry?