Money: The worst idea since murder.

[heyheysg]

I think you guys are referring to the system known as 'Fiat' as compared to a 'Gold Standard'

In the past, all the money in the world was linked to the amount of actual Gold the government holds in their vaults. More Cash/Same Gold = lower value of money

Now, the Governments like the US can simply create money out of thin air as long as they declare it legal tender simply by printing more. However, More magic cash = lower value of money

nothing to do with political systems here.

However, the reasons behind it has to do with politics and economical reasons including leading to inflation.

 

[KarumaK]

Heres what we need: Socialism.

Everyones so against socialism for uninformed reasons but its a great thing in the right hands. For example, why does a man who lugs around heavy boxs all day, works all day, and comes home tired make less money than a man who sits at a desk all day? Socialism would make it so all men were truly equal. Capitalism give false equality, socialism gives real equality.

Yeah that's communism.

And screw that, desk guy gets paid more because he makes sure all the box guys still have jobs when the day is done. Equality is overrated.

 

[captainwillies]

Oh that. Except that we would have to pretty dramatically scale back the standard of living in first world countries.

If every single person in the world had the average standard of living of America, we would require 8 planets worth of resources. (This applies to all first world countries, America was just the one used in the study).

8 planets worth? I'd like to call you out on that little statistic.

also Consider the following: At the beginning of World War II the US had a mere 600 or so first-class fighting aircraft. They rapidly overcame this short supply by turning out more than 90,000 planes a year. The question that they asked themselves at the start of World War II was: Do we have enough funds to produce the required implements of war? The answer was No, we did not have enough money, nor did we have enough gold; but we did have more than enough resources. It was the available resources that enabled the US to achieve the high production and efficiency required to win the war. Unfortunately this is only considered in times of war.

That philosophy is fundamentally flawed simply because the Earth isn't abundant with plentiful resources. The only reason technology has advanced as far as it has with the speed that it has is that a much greater amount of resources has been focused on a much smaller amount of people, and they have applied those resources to improve their own standard of living through research and development.

i would also like to call you on this. actually the earth is abundant there is just a massive amount of waste before it reachs the hands of those who need it.

have you ever worked in the fast food industry? i worked in a subway sandwhich bar for a while and i was stunned the jaw dropping amount of food that was wasted in that 1 diner in that 1 food chain in that 1 town sent my mind reeling at possible total of perfectly fine food that got wasted all because of company policies.

I heartly believe there is enough resources in this world for everybody to have shelter, clothing, and atleast 3 meals a day.

At one point in time this would have been a viable option, but with the current population (and don't forget that it is constantly rising), it is quite frankly impossible to have an abrupt change to a resource economy without abandoning the majority of technological comforts that everyone here is so accustomed to. (If you're on the Escapist, you have internet access, which means you're used to the kind of things I'm talking about).

i also disagree with this ^^^

In a resource-based economy many of the shortages that we have today could easily be overcome by technological ingenuity and the reduction of waste. For example, we could use a form of evaporative condensation in all areas where there are water shortages. We could provide canals from the sea into the land and cover the canals for several miles with transparent enclosures. These would be used for evaporative desalinization. In the state of Florida alone we have close to 50 watts per s yard, which is not harnessed at this time by solar heat concentrators. All highways, parking lots, and rooftops in the new cities would be used to heat water for all of the community needs without the burning of fossil fuels. By using geothermal energy alone (the natural heat of the earth), we could propel the world's society for the next thousand years but this is relatively untapped. There is also wave power, wind power, heat concentrators and many sources of untapped power. Science has never been given the assignment of the production of an abundance for the benefit of all of the earth?s people.

taken from: http://www.thevenusproject.com/the-venus-project-introduction/faq

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

Not to sound arrogant however socialism is an idealistic fantasy that cannot function in its purest state, which is why it has net to be implicated.

The same thing can be said of capitalism, with an equally well made motivation behind it.

It's quite interesting how easily sold some people are on the idea of "free trade" being the solution to all the world's problems...

 

[Reklore]

I got it! We go back to one of the older ways. SEX! you give me food, I give you sex.

 

[captainwillies]

Um, one problem, our Earth is not abundant with resources, and if everyone gets as much as they want, we will be screwed.

i would also like to call you on this. actually the earth is abundant there is just a massive amount of waste before it reachs the hands of those who need it.

have you ever worked in the fast food industry? i worked in a subway sandwhich bar for a while and i was stunned the jaw dropping amount of food that was wasted in that 1 diner in that 1 food chain in that 1 town sent my mind reeling at possible total of perfectly fine food that got wasted all because of company policies.

I heartly believe there is enough resources in this world for everybody to have shelter, clothing, and atleast 3 meals a day.

also Consider the following: At the beginning of World War II the US had a mere 600 or so first-class fighting aircraft. They rapidly overcame this short supply by turning out more than 90,000 planes a year. The question that they asked themselves at the start of World War II was: Do we have enough funds to produce the required implements of war? The answer was No, we did not have enough money, nor did we have enough gold; but we did have more than enough resources. It was the available resources that enabled the US to achieve the high production and efficiency required to win the war. Unfortunately this is only considered in times of war.

 

[Reklore]

Not to sound arrogant however socialism is an idealistic fantasy that cannot function in its purest state, which is why it has net to be implicated.

The same thing can be said of capitalism, with an equally well made motivation behind it.

It's quite interesting how easily sold some people are on the idea of "free trade" being the solution to all the world's problems...

Dam it people! Socialism has and stall is being use.

The USA is socialist.

Socialism in a nutshell is when you pay your taxis and the government gives it to the place the country needs it most. IE the bank bale out.

 

[Olikunmissile]

I have a feeling this one has fallen in with The Zeitgeist movement. They believe that... I'll just find a link, it's a very interesting video. http://vimeo.com/6346955

I sat there and watched it, agreed with a couple of their points, but they're a cult just like the rest of everything else.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Not to sound arrogant however socialism is an idealistic fantasy that cannot function in its purest state, which is why it has net to be implicated.

The same thing can be said of capitalism, with an equally well made motivation behind it.

It's quite interesting how easily sold some people are on the idea of "free trade" being the solution to all the world's problems...

I never stated it was the solution to all the world's problems, I am saying it is what is the most effective as of now. Capitalism is not perfect, it has flaws just like everything else. However there is no system at this juncture that can be implicated.

Capitalism isn't a fantasy, it is a reality currently and what we have is not capitalism in its purest form.

 

[captainwillies]

I have a feeling this one has fallen in with The Zeitgeist movement. They believe that... I'll just find a link, it's a very interesting video. http://vimeo.com/6346955

I sat there and watched it, agreed with a couple of their points, but they're a cult just like the rest of everything else.

so what do we do? live with what we've got? or hope for something more?

because that is the ultimate question of this thread.

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

Capitalism isn't a fantasy, it is a reality currently and what we have is not capitalism in its purest form.

No no, capitalism isn't a fantasy. Neither is socialism. It is the expected results of the two ideologies that are fantasies.

As for "the most effective method". Well this "effective method" of yours has left the U.S with one of the world's highest financial debts in the world. Tell me, where's the efficiency in that?

Another thing to consider is the fact that most people who like capitalism are the same people who've never had to be on the butt-end of capitalism... Strange "coincidence". : P

 

[Olikunmissile]

I have a feeling this one has fallen in with The Zeitgeist movement. They believe that... I'll just find a link, it's a very interesting video. http://vimeo.com/6346955

I sat there and watched it, agreed with a couple of their points, but they're a cult just like the rest of everything else.

so what do we do? live with what we've got? or hope for something more?

because that is the ultimate question of this thread.

So you didn't even bother to watch the video. Replied with poor grammar and expect me to sum it up because you're too impatient. Here's a question for you.

"so what do we do? live with what we've got? or hope for something more?"

What does your comment on my post have to do with this thread?

Honestly. Whatever.

These guys are all about getting rid of a monetary system and pooling all of our resources into a supply and demand system. Everyone would work their jobs, and in response to it, everyone would get exactly what they need, no more no less. Should something break a replacement is sent out. They think it'll lower crime because everyone will have exactly the same. It's some sort of new age communism. And then they talk a whole lot about rebuilding our cities in a certain way to make things easier and a load more shit. My point is in that video. If you need to know so bad go watch.

 

[Queen Michael]

Shiver me timbers! If it be money ye dislike, why not start using diamonds and other precious booty?

 

[asinann]

How is murder a bad idea again?

 

[KingPiccolOwned]

cheese

You know what, go fu...oh hell im not even in the mood for an argument tonight. Whatever, this whole thread is hypothetical and irrelevant anyway.

Cranberries. Because I enjoy them so very much. And also because every valid point has already been stated, to my knowledge anyways.

 

[The_Prophet]

What socialist crap is this? We need legal tender, our economy revolves around it, and any proposed economic changes would be based around money-systems. The only other option is going back to the barter system and the dark age economies.

You are in the wrong place, posting socialist shit that no-one is agreeing with. You sir... HAVE FAILED!

Op is poor as fuck.

Oh shut up you brainwashed yankee twats.

OT: Uhmm no, we are still pursuing knowledge and nothing is slowing down the pursuit.

 

[Queen Michael]

How is murder a bad idea again?

Well, ye might be sendin' some other buccaneer than ye intended to Davy Jones! If ye aim for Barnacle Billy, but ye hit Starboard Stephen, it be mighty embarrassing!

 

[obliterate]

Ugh, no. You will never replace legal tender unless we go back to buying and selling people. Stop being so um....damn i cant find a nice word to say...anyway you get the point.

Yup...totally...this comment totally made this topic useless

 

[Kontar]

It really doesn't matter if we're talking about money, or bone, or whatever else any possible human ever used as something to trade for something else. The simple fact is we will always have "currency", some people work way harder than others, and thus should get rewarded for their effort. For example, I am a pilot, I worked my ass of for 5 years after highschool, and finally got a job with an airline, I get paid for the work that I put into it, I get paid much more than someone who dropped out of school when they were 13 and started working at Walmart.

Are you all saying we should just let anyone who wants to contribute to society get the same rewards? If so then I shall sit on my ass at home, eat pizzas and post "entertaining" replies on forums such as this, while some people learn how to cure human dieseases, fly airplanes, learn the intricacies of human debate, and everyone gets rewarded the same.

I am sorry but the only way human society works is if we are properly compensated for the amount of work we put into stuff, it is how we evolved. Think of the hunters 100,0000 years ago, you think they came back after a week tracking a Mastadon, losing a comrade or two but finally killing it and thinking "well, all of you lazy arses who sat around get an equal share as us hunters who worked our arses off getting this?" no they didn't think that, that's why humanity evolved into the strong force we are now, instead of dieing out because lazy morons dragged us down.

Without currency human kind would have died off a millenia ago, we need something to motivate us to make life better for our fellow men and for ourselves, and greed is an unfortunate side effect of that. Live with it.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Capitalism isn't a fantasy, it is a reality currently and what we have is not capitalism in its purest form.

No no, capitalism isn't a fantasy. Neither is socialism. It is the expected results of the two ideologies that are fantasies.

As for "the most effective method". Well this "effective method" of yours has left the U.S with one of the world's highest financial debts in the world. Tell me, where's the efficiency in that?

Another thing to consider is the fact that most people who like capitalism are the same people who've never had to be on the butt-end of capitalism... Strange "coincidence". : P

Bill Clinton left the United States in one of the best financial states it has been in since the founding of the Country. George W. Bush took over and... here we are. Maybe going to war for eight years and spending trillions of dollars wasn't such a good idea.

Oh I wouldn't say that. Up until mid July I lived without a fridge for a year, good exercise having to walk to the store daily though. I know we could have rented one, just never got around to it. Also I haven't slept in a bed beyond rare family visits in three/four years, as I do not own one. Granted with the way I sleep (I pass out on the couch or chair constantly) I really do not need one.

People would be amazed how people with capitalist mindsets have lived before life starting moving in their direction. I mean I was hardly without considering what I have, just noting that I have seen the bad side of capitalism.