More school, yay or nay?
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if the teachers arnt teaching what they need to now will an extra hour in every class really going to help? people who want to learn, learn, going longer isnt going to magically fix stupid people. EDIT: if anybody outside of america has ever had a game of tag where 16 and 17 year olds were jumping on desks chasing each other I'd really like to know
Seems to me that as many people have said, America needs better quality teachers and teaching methods. Longer hours could actually be detrimental to education standards. Students will be more tired and less able to focus properly after so long.
It also seems to me that this is a cheaper way for obama to look like he is actually doing something with education, without actually doing it
Of course, this is from an outside, british perspective
It also seems to me that this is a cheaper way for obama to look like he is actually doing something with education, without actually doing it
Of course, this is from an outside, british perspective
Well there we go! If school started later, you'd not have to get up as early, so you'd be more awake and so more alert for longer, right?WrongSprite said:
I just started going to an Online College a Month ago and I find it to be radically different--and quite possibly better--than the Face-to-Face (FtF) method of teaching used in my High School/Previous College.
Hell, both colleges said that students should spend "two hours for every hour in the classroom", but each one stresses the idea of spreading this time out, instead of a marathon. I do a lot of reading books here at College, and while some of the text books are interesting...I can't keep my eyes open for long on these things (and I enjoy reading too). Instead, College suggests that small times of reading, but frequently occurring in the day work better for students. A good time management plan will work as well.
I also find the idea of Online learning very enjoyable compared to the FtF method. I can actually voice my opinion in discussion boards (forums, like this one), and learn from the instructor, the book, as well as what everyone else is saying in the classroom. It just feels more interactive then the typical lecture classes.
I find it odd how the teaching methods in College, while in some ways similar, feels more like a radical improvement compared to the public teaching I got from my High School. My vote is to improve the quality.
Hell, both colleges said that students should spend "two hours for every hour in the classroom", but each one stresses the idea of spreading this time out, instead of a marathon. I do a lot of reading books here at College, and while some of the text books are interesting...I can't keep my eyes open for long on these things (and I enjoy reading too). Instead, College suggests that small times of reading, but frequently occurring in the day work better for students. A good time management plan will work as well.
I also find the idea of Online learning very enjoyable compared to the FtF method. I can actually voice my opinion in discussion boards (forums, like this one), and learn from the instructor, the book, as well as what everyone else is saying in the classroom. It just feels more interactive then the typical lecture classes.
I find it odd how the teaching methods in College, while in some ways similar, feels more like a radical improvement compared to the public teaching I got from my High School. My vote is to improve the quality.
Exactly. Extending the time won't do a darn thing if the teaching is cruddy.Fat Man Spoon said:
Just this year, they made our school days longer (high school) by seven minutes total, claiming that it's to help us learn better. Then I have a question. What is seven minutes a day going to do? Nothing.
"I'm to school for cool!"
Extending the hours won't do a blasted thing; Obama needs to find a way to improve the quality of teaching. My History teacher, Mr. Southgate, is a brilliant example. He spends about 20 Minutes of an hour long lesson just talking to us, about nothing. What did we do at the weekend, do you like TV Program X or whatever; just general stuff like that.
Sure, it wasted 20 Minutes, but everyone in my History class enjoys it and learns more because they like the way he teaches us.
Extending the hours won't do a blasted thing; Obama needs to find a way to improve the quality of teaching. My History teacher, Mr. Southgate, is a brilliant example. He spends about 20 Minutes of an hour long lesson just talking to us, about nothing. What did we do at the weekend, do you like TV Program X or whatever; just general stuff like that.
Sure, it wasted 20 Minutes, but everyone in my History class enjoys it and learns more because they like the way he teaches us.
Sitting in an auditorium with a teacher in front rambling on about who knows what will only do so much good. Boring drivel won't be any less boring with more shit stacked on. I suspect if the school day/year was extended, millions of kids will be catching up on their sleep in class. Not to mention the amount of homework they already get already takes many hours to do. I can't imagine lessening that time will help in the long run since most teachers don't allow you to do homework in class.
Expect the dropout rate to skyrocket if this happens.
Expect the dropout rate to skyrocket if this happens.
yeah cause 7 hours is such a long time, seriously that's nothing, try working 8-12 hours a day with maybe an hour off, do that for a few years and then come talk to me about how 9-4 with 1 hour is a bad thingDanny Ocean said:
as for the topic on hand, i think it's a bit of both, they need more teaching AND a better quality of teaching.
I was a victim of American public school for 2 years. Two wasted years, mind you. I got the worst possible education I could imagine. The coursework was piss-easy, the teachers were inept, and the students were idiots (HOW CAN YOU NOT KNOW HOW TO DO PERCENTAGES IN SEVENTH GRADE!?). Geography knowledge was, at best, atrocious. PE was a joke, since you were graded on "effort" solely, and not on ability, aptitude or skill at all. "Science" class was basically doing my 4th-5th grade Natural Sciences class again. All tests were multiple choice, even mathematics (as if it weren't easy enough to have a test on perimeters of basic geometric shapes in seventh grade).
You don't need more hours, you need to get better teachers, who'll make the children work hard and study their asses off.
You don't need more hours, you need to get better teachers, who'll make the children work hard and study their asses off.
If you can't stand sleeping 5-6 hours on a weekday, truly life must be so joyful and easy for you. I get up at 5:30, so I have breakfast, get changed, and catch a train that will drop me off 10 blocks from my school at 7. I stay in school until 3-4pm, then have at least one hour a day teaching English privately, and I've never had problems with awareness or sleepiness.Danny Ocean said:
Also, it they were to shift hours, they should make them earlier, to give you more time off in the afternoon to study and work.
Ahem...cleverlymadeup said:
I never said it wasn't a bad thing, no need for sarcasm. Take note that I excluded the hour for lunch, although really, if you want to do well, you'll work at lunch, too. I do work part-time, as well as going to school. Most of the kids here have stuff after school, which extends the school day to the length of the standard working day of 9-5. On top of that, we also get two or three extra hours of homework a night. Don't tell me that my routine is easy, I can assure you it isn't. Besides, you're forgetting a few things:Danny Ocean said:
1. Teenagers (Ages 13-18), especially guys, need more sleep than adults. Average recommended amount for adults is just 6 or 7. For Teenage guys it's 8, 9, or even 10.
2. Regardless of whether or not my school day of 9-4 is enough to knacker you, it clearly is enough to knacker most kids. The schools do not cater to your endurance, but to the majority. It certainly knackers me.
3. It can be argued that we do a lot more activity in schooling- both physical and mental- than quite a few professions. How mentally and physically taxing is a 12-hour shift sitting at the tills?
I disagree. Surely we should harness the natural propensity for people of my age group to stay up late by shifting the hours later?Clashero said:
Maybe I'm some kind of freak who actually works at school, I dunno. Perhaps it's because I'm privately educated- lots of A's. By the time I get home, after an extra-curricular hour, I'm already ready for bed. Then I've got homework- two or three hours- which I have do to a high standard. Then I've got between one and 4 hours free time, depending on how tired I can let myself be for the next day. It's a choice between going to bed at 10pm, or 1am. Tonight I'm thinking 12am.
Sorry if I offended anyone with this post, but to be honest I feel offended that some seem to be able to dismiss all the work I do as nothing compared to a job. I do both, and I think that my schooling is actually harder than my work (I'm a waiter, by the way. I'm struggling to hold onto my job, just like every adult here.).
People look down on kids, but some of us do work hard. Please remember that.
There is something that hasn't been mentioned before in this forum: not increasing the school hours, but increasing the school calendar.
Currently, the American school system is based upon an agrarian calendar, summer vacation is long, so kids can go help their parents work on the farm. However, this creates a big blank hole in the educational development of children. Studies have shown that kids lose about 2-4 months worth of education over the two-month summer vacation. If this time was shortened considerably, say to three weeks, they would lose far less then they currently are.
I say: increase class hours so that each class is about 1h 30m, instead of 45m, which is about average, and increase the length of a break-time between classes, instead of 5 minutes to rush from one class to the next, give them 15 minutes to actually decompress a little, then get to their next class. Also: make the summer vacation shorter, and all other vacations longer. 2 weeks during the winter, 2 weeks during the spring, and 3 weeks during the summer.
Also, I hate to say this, but increase the amount of homework. It sounds cruel, but practice really does make perfect. Every kid probably spends about 2 hours doing homework, and spends the rest of the time zonking out in front of the TV. Make it 3-4 hours, and really let the assignment sink in. This way, lessons do not have to be repeated ad nauseum.
The biggest problem is that people are saying we should teach better, not increase hours, but in reality learning is a 24 hour experience. A kid receiving 45 minutes of history isn't going to learn very much, and the half-hour of homework isn't going to help matters. A large problem with this is that most of school is rote memorization, of course it's boring, whereas college should be more about learning how to research.
People here are right, sometimes it's the teacher that makes a difference, and I couldn't agree more. My best teachers were the ones who made their subject interesting, who spoke about them with excitement and odd facts that help draw in their students. Unfortunately, not only has there been a dirth of accredited teachers entering the system, but the system itself has failed to correct itself on countless occasions, advising the removal of schools and teachers that do the worst, when, very likely, these are the ones who need the most help. The creation of pass/fail programs, rewarding the best and punishing the worst has only exacerbated the problem, forcing teachers to hammer into their students only the questions that will be on the test, rather than actually teaching them.
Currently, the American school system is based upon an agrarian calendar, summer vacation is long, so kids can go help their parents work on the farm. However, this creates a big blank hole in the educational development of children. Studies have shown that kids lose about 2-4 months worth of education over the two-month summer vacation. If this time was shortened considerably, say to three weeks, they would lose far less then they currently are.
I say: increase class hours so that each class is about 1h 30m, instead of 45m, which is about average, and increase the length of a break-time between classes, instead of 5 minutes to rush from one class to the next, give them 15 minutes to actually decompress a little, then get to their next class. Also: make the summer vacation shorter, and all other vacations longer. 2 weeks during the winter, 2 weeks during the spring, and 3 weeks during the summer.
Also, I hate to say this, but increase the amount of homework. It sounds cruel, but practice really does make perfect. Every kid probably spends about 2 hours doing homework, and spends the rest of the time zonking out in front of the TV. Make it 3-4 hours, and really let the assignment sink in. This way, lessons do not have to be repeated ad nauseum.
The biggest problem is that people are saying we should teach better, not increase hours, but in reality learning is a 24 hour experience. A kid receiving 45 minutes of history isn't going to learn very much, and the half-hour of homework isn't going to help matters. A large problem with this is that most of school is rote memorization, of course it's boring, whereas college should be more about learning how to research.
People here are right, sometimes it's the teacher that makes a difference, and I couldn't agree more. My best teachers were the ones who made their subject interesting, who spoke about them with excitement and odd facts that help draw in their students. Unfortunately, not only has there been a dirth of accredited teachers entering the system, but the system itself has failed to correct itself on countless occasions, advising the removal of schools and teachers that do the worst, when, very likely, these are the ones who need the most help. The creation of pass/fail programs, rewarding the best and punishing the worst has only exacerbated the problem, forcing teachers to hammer into their students only the questions that will be on the test, rather than actually teaching them.
As a senior in high school im pretty sure it wouldnt effect me. But what they should do is instead of increasing the hours, increase the quality. The education in my school is terrible. Only like 24% of the kids passed the state standardized tests. (i passed though yay for me!)
I've had that exprience too. The majority of ppl who are teachers today, don't often like kids. Here is my mini-story. I had an amazing as hell history teacher last year. This man came busting through the door on the first day of class and yelled. "YEAH! EDUCATION!". I learned more in that teacher's class, cause he made learning fun and entertaining. Now, my freshman year, I had a history teacher who was a mean, spiteful old woman. I survived her class, but only thing I took from that class was to appriciate my second semster history teacher.Furburt said:
So, the attitude of the teachers and the quality of the education is what needs to change, not the hours. And a lot of the schools in my area offer a "Zero Hour" option for students who want to get ahead. I took a zero hour class and I loved it, but I had an awesome teacher.