Morrowind as Life Affirmation

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KaynSlamdyke

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Kaisharga said:
Even remembering that occurrence pisses me off. If you won't let me thieve, why ask me if I want to? Jerks. I guess a 'solution' to this task probably involves some sort of item granting invisibility, but cripes--for a starting character? Seriously now. Not all of us want to be warlords or warlocks.

Right, where was I? I'd better stop remembering the story if I want to make good on my saying I'm giving the game another chance.
Unfortunately, as my friend pointed out the best way to solve that puzzle is to BUY the diamond from her. Preferabbly by selling her some of your looted equipment and pillaging from her bedroom and selling the gear to the pawnbroker in town.

It's a conversation I was having with a friend today. The whole "go anywhere, do anything" thing has it's merits, but there are parts of the game (like quest giving, or the combat, or the magic system, or the AI, or the constant feeling of being alone) that make me dislike it and should have some serious work focussed on them.

It's no more advanced than Vice City in my opinion - you can go anywhere, do the same quests over and over again until you pass them, skip optional plotlines out... and at least in Vice City you could actually hit someone worth a damn.

Well now that we've got Oblivion looking pretty, maybe ES5 and Fallout3 can have more attention to thier world detail so that complainative bastards like me can enjoy them more.

Mind you, seeing that seven minute speedrun makes me want to see if I can do that... Morrowind is indeed a place you can be anyone you want to be - Fighter, Mage, Thief, Alchemist, Healer, Speedrunner... and the humourous tone of the first post makes me think I should stop taking the serious-rpg-games so seriously and actually go out there and blow stuff up and mod me a castle full of dancing girls up in the middle of an island.

Always wanted a Doom Fortress.
 

tiredinnuendo

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I fell into Morrowind a few years back after my friend picked it up on the XBox. I (wisely, it was later determined) picked it up on the PC and thus was able to experience the joys of mods, fast load times, no crashes, and a generally better play experience. My friend came over and played on my PC for a time, and together we reached the conclusion that Morrowind really was a game intended for the PC. It was beautiful, easy to lose yourself in, and fully followed the mantra of "Be whatever you want, do whatever you want. This is not a game to play, it is a world to live in."

Oblivion was exactly the opposite. It felt like a game designed for the 360 and then ported to the PC.

The skills were paired down more than I liked. The quests were incredibly linear and had waypoints each step of the way. Every dungeon was created by a computer, not hand drawn, so they were all collections of the same ten dungeon "pieces" (see: CoX instances). Enemies and loot were entirely based on level. Every piece of loot laying out in the open was garbage. The game was finishable (and, in fact, easier) at level 1 and with fast travel only took about 3 hours if you were trying. When you were outside, you were either in the woods or it was snowing. When you were inside, you were in an aleyid (sp?) ruin, a fort, an aleyid ruin, an aleyid ruin, or a cave. What this means, for those keeping track, is that every time you passed a place to explore you knew what would be inside, exactly, because you knew all the indoor layouts and the enemies and loot were based on your level. Several NPCs could not be killed, several items could not be dropped, and the whole thing generally felt much more "on rails" than an Elder Scrolls game really had any right to. Finally, the whole UI was obviously designed for players who sat ten feet away from the screen.

To say that I was discouraged by Oblivion would be an understatement, however, I will admit that they did combat *right* in that game, which was a welcome change from Morrowind's route of "combat should hurt the gamer".

Also, first post.

- J
 

Iceman23

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Dec 20, 2007
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Ahh Morrowind, a shining example of teaching the player through punishment. I remember the first time I played the game, and just how confused my 11 year old brain was at the shear size of the game. I literally spent 30 minutes looking around Seyden Neen before I decided to leave the city and try to make it to Balmora on foot, just for the fun of it. Not 5 minutes into my little stroll did I hear someone screaming. I went to investigate the source only to find a small book lying on the ground. A second later and a small man in a fancy robe came flying out of the sky and slammed into the ground, narrowly missing my avatar's head.

I sat there for a minute, stunned, after noticing he was dead, I promptly loated his corpse and put on his fancy sword and robe. Satisified with my new gear I decided to try one of the scrolls I had just taken, and being the stupid 11 year old that I was, I completely ignored the description in the mans journal and his overall demise before I activated one and took a random leap to try their super jumping abilities out.

Needless to say I ended up somewhere near the city walls of Ald-Ruhn in a big bloody heap.

I decided it was best to read the item's description before using it from that point on.

Although slamming head first into the city walls of Ald-Ruhn told me of its overall presence, so I decided to go there after I loaded from my last save. I wasn't walking around for very long before I discovered the Guard Towers near the city's entrance, and went inside.

Once inside I noticed a town guard, dressed in some very badass armor, some very badass armor that I thought would look very nice one me. So again with my 11 year old stupidity I pulled out the sword I had taken off of the flying man earlier and proceeded to stab the guard with it.

20 seconds later I was dead on the ground with a sword plunged straight through my spleen.

I then decided that it was best to not pick a fight with guards, no matter how much I wanted their armor.

Morrowind did have its faults though, like someone already mentioned, it had the whole "find this one specific object in a two mile radius, good luck" sort of quest just a little too often, I remember how I was searching for nearly two hours before I found that freaking Dwarven Puzzle Cube thing, not to mention other quests with a similar objective. And I'm not even going to start with the combat system.

Which things like this were thankfully fixed in Oblivion, which might be why I favor Oblivion to Morrowind just a bit, but they're both great games none the less and have provided me with more good times than I can count.
 

AlexanderAstartes

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Jan 1, 2008
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I'm around an hour and a half in to Oblivion, still level 1 and into the first Oblvion gate. An hour and a half of Morrowind saw me fighting for my life on more than one occasion. I find the start to Oblvion surprisingly easy...especially compared to the rat-induced death of the last game. I would have never dared taking on scamps at lvl 1 in Morrowind, but here I am kicking ass in an alternate plane of existence. Disillusioning much?
 

yourself

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Jan 3, 2008
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Oh morrowind getting a little pat on the booty by the odd-jawed custom's officer and stealing enough monie to hitch a ride on that stiltstrider are all fond mermories to me. Oh yea, and trying to go to Solstiem at level 3ish was fun too, got my but kicked by a wolf and remember every boat is "the last boat to solstiem".

exelent review good reading and all that.
 

Jakeb Smith

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Nov 12, 2007
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Excellent writing. But I have one question: did anyone else collect candles? You know how you'd commandeer a room somewhere to keep all our things. Did anyone else fill every available surface with multi-coloured, blooming light sources to hang out in and take moonsugar?

Also, did anyone use the Summon Daedra spell to make cash by looting their weapons before they disappeared? It was a tactic that became redundant with the expansions.
 

Girlysprite

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Nov 9, 2007
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Daggerfall was my sweetheart. Morrowind may drop you right in the middle of a game, Daggerfall dropped you on the bottom of a dungeon. Good luck.
Of course, the mapping system was so friggin' horrible that I used cheats to get to the place I wanted to get to...or get utterly lost. Morrowwind was nice, but when I had taken a break in playing for a week and then returned to my quest journal, I didn't really have an idea where to go to and couldn't complete them anymore. In those aspects, Oblivion is better. The game mechanics are better worked out, the systems work smoother. I find em all as good, though Daggerfall wins because it has this shine of nostalgia for me, the first game I ever really played.
 

Thegreatoz

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Jan 5, 2008
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A fantastic game, so easy to get lost, distracted and completely forget what your main mission was...seriously i left the starting ton and the treid to level up as much as possible so a random band of ...bandits doesnt kill me and then laugh at my pathetic corpse. I soon found myself doing small quests in towns and then i moved up to the guilds and the military...and then i remembered i was actually suposed to do something! of course i blew it off for a bit and enjoyed some good ole sky gazing. I miss it, although Oblivion was a good game, i have to agree that it was a bit of a let down.
 

Santhenar

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Dec 27, 2007
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I recall when I first started up Morrowind, my first act of business was to accidentally sell the package I was supposed to deliver. Yet this is the only game ever where having abysmally failed the first mission I didn't feel the need to restart the game for another hundred hours or so, I just spent my time wandering the land...
ah...
 

Santhenar

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Dec 27, 2007
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Jakeb Smith said:
Excellent writing. But I have one question: did anyone else collect candles? You know how you'd commandeer a room somewhere to keep all our things. Did anyone else fill every available surface with multi-coloured, blooming light sources to hang out in and take moonsugar?
I tried to collect every item in the game. I had a big house in Balmora filled with weapons and armour and stuff all neatly laid out- And a copy of every book, which I used to build a massive tower in the sky. That's one thing I don't know if many people noticed, some of the books in the game were actually genuinely enjoyable to read.
wow... Just remembering the fun I had with that game is great.
 

Sib

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Dec 22, 2007
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thats the sort of game i put down and never really started, i just got utterly lost and confused and scared witless. but the whole time i was enjoying myself, even when i was huddled in a corner in my magical robes (which made me look like a retard) clutching my enchanted sword while hiding from an evil rat which would eat my yummy little face, damn rats doom of all the saviours of the planet/whatever
 

madfool2

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Dec 30, 2007
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I've just brought it today, after playing Oblivion and the harshness of Morrowind being somehow what I expected, Oblivion has only 1 advantage over Morrowind.

The compass.
 

Lostanddamned

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Jan 5, 2008
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Hello - this is my 1st post here etc...

Not only are the way the missions and so on play out much better (and more punishing) in Morrowind, but the setting is much better too, Oblivion is your bog-standard, utterly vanilla flavoured European Fantasy setting, there are forests, mountains, ancient elven ruins, medieval castles with knights, goblins, trolls, wizards and all the races live in perfect harmony. Make the Orcs bad guys and we have LOTR.

Morrowind has Slavery, Racism, Getting lifts in Giant Fleas, Mushroom Trees, A City Like Venice, but made of pyramids as well, A Giant Floating Meteorite that is actually a Fortress/Prison, a scary virus that has caused a large part of the country to be shielded off by a magical "force field" thing, there was also a tavern with dancing wenches and the plot (that which I remember of it) seems much more convoluted and original than Oblivions frankly poor effort (except for Mankar Camorans Paradise, which was fun...). Shivering Isles was at least a little more intresting, as the world there seemed to be a lot more Morrowind-like, although not as brilliant, Morrowind-lite if you will, also the main plot felt more fun, as you were acting at first on the whim of a god.

I would be very interested in seeing a Total Conversion mod of Oblivion to transfer the story and setting (at least the main quest) of Morrowind into the game. It would be very fun to play the game with the newer engine and all the spanky aspects that it does have, specificly the physics ones, which made Oblivions traps rather fun.

Another advantage of Morrowind was the loading screens, which would show you a particular Monster, which almost certainly would be massively scary, and because you had seen it so many times before, when you first encounter one in-game, it felt like you had heard legends of them and feared them - a nice touch. I remember the elation I felt the first time my character killed a Daedroth in Daedric ruins somewhere near Khuul, It was a long fight and really quite scary. My character in Oblivion kills Deadroth with a single shot from his bow, which is absolutely no fun at all, and really subtracts something from the game.

Also - the way the "play area" is limited, in Morrowind there is (I think) infinite randomly generated sea, which is pretty cool really, in Oblivion "You cannot go that way, Turn back", which is pathetic because sometimes creatures spawn outside this area, and the land is clearly explorable.

In conclusion - whilst Oblivion is fun (especially the Dark Brotherhood), and much more accessible than Morrowind - ultimately I feel Morrowind is the Better Game.
 

yourself

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Jan 3, 2008
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The biggest problem I had with Oblivion was probably the game pacing. Once you get past level 15ish you already have the best armor weapons and are fighting the toughest enemies, this means I've played about ten files where I've gotten to about level 17 and started over. I remember Morrowind you had to be around level fifty to enjoy parts of the game, like solstiem.
I have found, however, that if you play Oblivion by the Morrowind rules it does make the game better. If you don't use the fast travel feature and turn up the diffuculty a little bit the game plays a little more like morrowind. It will never be the same, but it makes it a little closer.
 

Easykill

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Ahh.. Morrowind. I used to go to the levitate shrine in Vivec, then use the power of god to kill ordinaters, "Divine soldiers," and then loot their stuff. I then went so high I couldnt figure out if I was going up or down because I was in a cloud. Then the spell wore off. Ever since, I've had this irrational fear of skydiving... But I never fell for the Icarus' flight scrolls! It's name gave it away!
 

FaceInTheSand

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Jan 10, 2008
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Firstly, I thank you for your thoughtful and beautifully phrased post, which I'm tempted to call a "treatise", in the vein of old essays written by Enlightenment philosophers, as it is such a refreshing change from the "lol Morrowidn r0x oblivion sux!!1!11" posts I so often see.

I think that Morrowind had some points that Oblivion is lacking. Each new town you visited and creature you encountered in Morrowind was different and unique in gaming terms and gave me some of the most memorable first impressions of any game. The tiny fishing villages of the Bitter Coast, lit only by the central torches and constantly harassed by flying jellyfish of doom. The kingdom carved from the carapace of a crab was a truly inspired point of culture and history in Tamriel. The North-Eastern areas with mushroom-citadels looming in the middle of islands lush with oversized vegetation. The emaciated, headless four legged Nix Hounds and the Crocodile-Chicken-crossbreed Alits. They were all marvels of art design.

I remember having one of my best experiences of gaming ever in Morrowind, where I had broken into a fortress (Peligiad), and stole many shiny objects. During the burglary, I was spotted and forced to leap from the battlements, and run through the town as the chase began. Over the next week (game time), my speed was the only thing that saved me as I got increasingly lost in the swamps until I eventually circled back to Balmora, and paid my fine off.
It was a marvellous gaming moment, not because of the events - but because I was not compelled to reload. I had messed up a simple theft, and yet I was happy; lost, diseased and marked.


But, Morrowind hates you. And as much as I like the ocassional feeling of discomfort in a game, Morrowind was an abusive marriage. You covered your bruises because of these few moments of gaming bliss, and convinced yourself you were falling down the stairs every time.

As soon as you stepped out of the Ascadian Isles or the Bitter Coast, you were confronted with miles and miles soul-destroying ochre, brown, red or grey landscape, the only features being tangled trees and pteradactyls that chased you incessantly.
As soon as you stepped into a hole in the ground in the hope of finding loot you would be confronted with an insurmountable enemy, who would instantly stab you in the face until you were forced to exploit the AI's inability to go through doors.

The missions were badly designed, especially in the Theives' Guild or Morag Tong. One mission, which required you to steal a Dwemer Tube from a box from a shop in Gnaar Mok, had five NPC's staring at it, 24/7. Assassination missions required you to walk into an inn and shiv someone in broad daylight, and present a piece of paper to the police to "get away with it". Awful, repetitive mission design, that was there seemingly just to spite you.

The skills system was infuriating, especially enchant and Marksman. It was such a terrible grind to level up enchant, because you would have to make dozens of "Shirts of 1% shield" or something before you were good enough to make something worth having. Marksman, similarly, was useless because of the seemingly random boundary boxes drawn around creatures. You could witness an arrow pierce a netch, but do no damage, and then find it later on the ground half a mile away.
Levelling up therefore, provided no real sense of achievement as it represented an arbitrary percentage increase in your skills, which, despite your first person perspective, had very little control over.

Oblivion, while being dishearteningly unoriginal has corrected these flaws considerably.

Every town you visit in Oblivion is familiar, with just slightly different vegetation, a different wood/stone mix and slightly different racial demographics. Each medieval city is unimpressive, and the Imperial City an uninspired Minas Tirith-esque white city with little character in each district.
Most of the creatures you meet in Oblivion have none of the unique flair of Morrowind's other-worldly design, and instead retreat to the standard RPG fare of wolves, goblins, trolls and ogres.

But, the exterior of Oblivion is lush. Not just graphically, with shiny HDR and nice textures, but it's so FULL. The grass is verdant and green, the trees are tall and majestic, the rivers flow gorgeously over waterfalls and the deer skip carelessly through the forests. You never feel as lonely as you did in Vvardenfell's empty north and middle, which makes Oblivion much more fun to wander around.
The fact that ruins and caves are marked on your map means you never have to wander around looking for a brown door in a brown hill, after being given some vague directions, looking for something to do. It's all around you. All the time. The world is literally bursting at the seams with places to explore, and - thanks to the much-improved levelled list system - exploring them might actually BE enjoyable, rather than a one way ticket to face-stabbingville.

By making you control the character directly, rather than relying so much on dice rolls, Oblivion helps you feel much closer to the protagonist. If you shoot an arrow at someone in Oblivion, you will hit them. If you stab someone in the face, they get hurt. It is a marvel of RPG gameplay. You can (and I have) gone through many dungeons without having any armour, because simply stepping backwards will mean you do not get hit - without having to suspend your disbelief as a sword slips effortlessly through your characters trunk but, due to a calculation deep in the game's mechanics, you are left unscathed.
Similarly, Oblivion fixes the pointlessness in levelling up by providing you with perks for doing well in a skill, such as the disarm or dodge/flip perks. This gives you a sense of achievement Morrowind never managed as you sat letting a kwama bite your face until you were good enough at block to stop it.

Oblivion also puts a lot more effort into it's quests. Granted, there is still an array of "Go and find me this specific item" quests, as in all RPGs, but there are many more quests of such exquisite beauty. The Dark Brotherhood murder mystery mission, for instance, is excellently choreographed. The Thieves' Guild's epic final mission and epilogue are beautiful. All executed perfectly, and all achievable without having to remind yourself you are playing a game.

While Morrowind is much more inspired a project, delivering beautiful, unique art direction and moments of brilliance; Oblivion is a much more polished game that is much more enjoyable and infinitely less infuriating to play.
 

Narrator

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I'm positively weepy with nostalgia.

And yeah. The amount of my life I sunk into Morrowind? That's one of those things I have to file under "I wouldn't trade it for the world, but I'd never do it again."
 

Private Custard

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Jakeb Smith said:
Excellent writing. But I have one question: did anyone else collect candles?
Check out what I did to my Morrowind save on the XBox, 3500 hours and one totally broken game later and I was satisfied..........oh and my glowing house is fit for a Pimp!! The candles and lamps are one of the things I miss most whenever I venture into Oblivions mediocrity. I lost about 1000 candles under an overflow loot bag though, I was distraught!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxyOclNtkZc

Never before have I given so much of my life to a game, I thought about it constantly, I even quit work for a while to finish finding ALL the items! Morrowind was/is a masterpiece.........Oblivion is basically 'my first RPG', very much like a supermodel.......pretty but ultimately shallow.
 

Jakeb Smith

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Nov 12, 2007
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Private Custard said:
Check out what I did to my Morrowind save on the XBox, 3500 hours and one totally broken game later and I was satisfied..........oh and my glowing house is fit for a Pimp!! The candles and lamps are one of the things I miss most whenever I venture into Oblivions mediocrity. I lost about 1000 candles under an overflow loot bag though, I was distraught!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxyOclNtkZc

Never before have I given so much of my life to a game, I thought about it constantly, I even quit work for a while to finish finding ALL the items! Morrowind was/is a masterpiece.........Oblivion is basically 'my first RPG', very much like a supermodel.......pretty but ultimately shallow.
You are my hero. Seriously, that video is a triumph of human endeavour. And god it brings back some pleasant memories. :)

My only grip about getting to that point in the game is that, apart from that lack of inherent challenge in being invincible, there's no chance to really take over the world. Perhaps that's WAY beyond the scope of the game, but it represents probably the greatest break in Morrowind's immersion. By the time you've achieved godhood, usually through nefarious means, your activities are reduced to exploring, collecting things and pimping your house. I want to make and break states at that point, to force my religion and ideals on people. It need only manifest in text, or something similarly simplistic, but there is a definite wall at the end of the game that is disconcerting.

It's funny I guess, that the game's praised freedom eventually becomes restrictive to immersion, as your character's power spirals beyond the game's scope. I still love it though.