Here, you kind of new.Dan Steele said:
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Most Tragic Villain
- Thread starter Outcast107
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To perform a spoiler tags you got to do it in brackets [] and do it like this: spoiler and in it in brackets like this [/spoiler]
I think Light from Deathnote would be a good choice. Granted he's the main character, but I think he definitely qualifies as the villain. He started out with good intentions, but I think he just got too caught up in the power of it all. He also made some blatantly dumb decisions for being a genius.
I have to say, I honestly don't see Andrew Ryan as the truly most tragic villian. It might be my own personal reservations on Objectivism, but it is not on my opinion that a real life Rapture would be built on anything less than Avarice. And as time goes on in the story, the more information you get on Andrew Ryan you find that while he had grande aspiritions, they were so seeded in intolerance and heartless dismissal of his citizens that they no longer meant something. And plus he's based off of Ayn Rand, so he probably raped somebody (and rape is wrong).
My mot tragic villain is The Master from Doctor Who. In the old series, the Master was basically the Time Lord equivalent of special ops, sent after a rogue Doctor by his own government, paid n regenerations. So, he's kind of like the Time Lord's Hero, and he keeps getting killed off by a guy in a funny scarf. But if we were to consider the New series as cannon he was damned to an insanity orchestrated by a corrupted Time Lord Counsel from the very moment he looked into the void. The Master had no chance, he was simply a victim of high grade insanity. He even ran from it, tried to become normal and inhabited the body of a helpful scientist. But even then, cruel fate as would have it, that it would all return. He then was killed by his wife (but to be fair he did enslave humanity), and then brought back by, I don't know, Magic? But was brought back with a condition that required him to kill people to stay alive.
And worst of all: his entire life, his one purpose was to act as a catalyst for the Time Lords to return. Yes, his entire life he was meant to be a tool. So to review: insane special op, who is orchestrated by his government to take down a rogue agent, driven insane by both the man he hunted and the people who gave him orders, killed over and over to the point of delirium, only to find out that he had zero control on what he does, that it and his path had already been chosen for him.
My mot tragic villain is The Master from Doctor Who. In the old series, the Master was basically the Time Lord equivalent of special ops, sent after a rogue Doctor by his own government, paid n regenerations. So, he's kind of like the Time Lord's Hero, and he keeps getting killed off by a guy in a funny scarf. But if we were to consider the New series as cannon he was damned to an insanity orchestrated by a corrupted Time Lord Counsel from the very moment he looked into the void. The Master had no chance, he was simply a victim of high grade insanity. He even ran from it, tried to become normal and inhabited the body of a helpful scientist. But even then, cruel fate as would have it, that it would all return. He then was killed by his wife (but to be fair he did enslave humanity), and then brought back by, I don't know, Magic? But was brought back with a condition that required him to kill people to stay alive.
And worst of all: his entire life, his one purpose was to act as a catalyst for the Time Lords to return. Yes, his entire life he was meant to be a tool. So to review: insane special op, who is orchestrated by his government to take down a rogue agent, driven insane by both the man he hunted and the people who gave him orders, killed over and over to the point of delirium, only to find out that he had zero control on what he does, that it and his path had already been chosen for him.
Kefka Palazzo. Noble general turned omnicidal maniac clown due to imperfect Magitek infusion technology. Not the most tragic villain, but pretty high up there.
He's not the most tragic, but definately somewhat tragic. Read some of the posts from before about him if you haven't already. lunnical and I discuss if whether Ryan was a dick from the beginning or just became that way. And he didn't rape anyone, but he did strangle his baby's momma to death.AperioContra said:
I don't know if he's so tragic. Yeah, he wanted to help but in his naive, idealistic and foolish way, Buddy nearly gets himself killed "trying" to help. And in the end, he causes Mr. Incredible to lose the bad guy.Angryranter101 said:
Perhaps it might have been fair if Mr. Incredible could have taken the time to let the boy know just how much danger he'd put himself in and that is unfortunate. But yeah... I'm not seeing the tragic.
But you can't believe what Alan Moore writes as his back story, because what he has the Joker say in one of the panelsLono Shrugged said:
Definately Kerrigan. I'm with you on that one.Leemaster777 said:Lots of good ones so far, but here's one no one's posted yet: Kerrigan, from Starcraft.
I mean, think about it, she spent the first half of her life being experimented on, and after that, she was betrayed by pretty much EVERYONE she trusted, left to die on a planet being overrun by alien nightmares.
And the cherry on top? She DOESN'T die, but instead BECOMES one of said nightmares.
If that isn't tragic, I don't know what is.
King Oedipus, by Sophocles. His own father was going to have him murdered (after pinning his feet together, literally) to stop a prophecy, which of course guaranteed the prophecy's fulfillment. Oedipus then grew up, and *unknowingly* killed his own father, got with his own mother, and became a powerful and successful king... until he discovered that he killed his own father, and married his own mother, etc. He was so screwed up after that he poked his own eyes out with a broach pin >.< Pretty much the definition of tragic imo.
This may be a bit obscure since I will be referenceing a childrens book series (shut up I still enjoy reading it) COunt Olaf from a series of unfortunent events, even though he is evil it is clear people have done bad things too him. Though the series leaves so much to the imagination with its lack of details and hints at possible subplots between charecters you can see it a number of different ways.
Understand, meant the rape thing as a joke toward Ayn Rand (whom Ryan was based off of), who in all of he stories generally had a rape-y feel to them. I do agree with you though, that Andrew Ryan, though misguided was tragic. But the element of his own avarice and heartlessness kind of dampened the tragedy. Hid tragedy was ironic tragedy at best, most certainly doesn't make the most tragic villain.
I was gonna say Porky but I got ninja'd.
So my second one would be the antagonist in the new Bastion. Can't really spoil it, but you'll know when you find out.
So my second one would be the antagonist in the new Bastion. Can't really spoil it, but you'll know when you find out.
Yeah, Rand's kind of weird that way. I always felt awkward reading the romance parts in her books.AperioContra said:
Definitely agree with you on the second point there.
Beat me to it: I've been reading Retribution which goes into some detail about what goes on when Reaper implants overtake an organic host. Saren was always a dick (read Revelation: he's a dick) but to be trapped inside of your own mind while your every action is undertaken by a foreign invader while all you can do is watch and feel the pain? That's gotta be hell. It must have taken a shitload of willpower for Saren to be talked into shooting himself. (sorry about the spoiler but the game is a few years old at this point: also he was the bad guy so it's easy to come to the conclusion that he dies.)Monkestful said:
most tragic villain?
A website a while ago mentioned the kid (I think his name was Wander?) from Shadows of the Colossus.
I mean didn't the kid make a Faustian pact with some demon to murder a bunch of harmless monsters (remember, all of those Colossi were pretty much doing their own thing, mindin their own business until that little bastard started stabbing at them) in order to release it from its prison and bring his woman back from the dead. So murdering the harmless golems and whatnot he does, getting more and more corrupted with every kill, until he becomes full demon and gets resealed by the priests and ends up cutting off his woman from ever leaving that land.
Sure he comes back as a child with horns and his horse didn't actually die and his girl did come back from the dead, but still, he becomes damned and has his identity destroyed for this one woman that had no guarentee of working.
I just figure he's a villain because he does the equivalent of those cults and crazy folks that think if they kill 13 people under the full moon or something they'll gain immortality or bring their child back from the dead.
A website a while ago mentioned the kid (I think his name was Wander?) from Shadows of the Colossus.
I mean didn't the kid make a Faustian pact with some demon to murder a bunch of harmless monsters (remember, all of those Colossi were pretty much doing their own thing, mindin their own business until that little bastard started stabbing at them) in order to release it from its prison and bring his woman back from the dead. So murdering the harmless golems and whatnot he does, getting more and more corrupted with every kill, until he becomes full demon and gets resealed by the priests and ends up cutting off his woman from ever leaving that land.
Sure he comes back as a child with horns and his horse didn't actually die and his girl did come back from the dead, but still, he becomes damned and has his identity destroyed for this one woman that had no guarentee of working.
I just figure he's a villain because he does the equivalent of those cults and crazy folks that think if they kill 13 people under the full moon or something they'll gain immortality or bring their child back from the dead.
Magneto. He was ripped away from his mother just when he was a boy from Nazi's and grew up in a concentration camp. I don't know the details within that but that sounds pretty freaking sad. All he wants is to make sure the same thing doesn't happen to mutants. At any means necessary.
Hansel and Gretel, the Romanian twins from Black Lagoon.
Now, nobody in Black Lagoon is really "hero" material, and you could drop most of them into a different story and make them villains with very little alteration, but Hansel and Gretel (who are maybe 12 at most) do some especially horrific things, and it just isn't their fault. They didn't choose to be raised in an overcrowded orphanage, run by sadists and pedophiles who forced them to perform in pornographic snuff films. They didn't choose to have all of the social responses a normal child learns replaced with either "fuck" or "kill". Their monstrous actions are simply how they were raised: the appropriate response to danger is to kill it, the appropriate way to display gratitude is to lift up your skirt.
They're sick, they're frightening, they're incredibly sad.
captcha: Jacobian ociniss? Either a villain's name or the rare medical disorder which indirectly drives him to crime.
Now, nobody in Black Lagoon is really "hero" material, and you could drop most of them into a different story and make them villains with very little alteration, but Hansel and Gretel (who are maybe 12 at most) do some especially horrific things, and it just isn't their fault. They didn't choose to be raised in an overcrowded orphanage, run by sadists and pedophiles who forced them to perform in pornographic snuff films. They didn't choose to have all of the social responses a normal child learns replaced with either "fuck" or "kill". Their monstrous actions are simply how they were raised: the appropriate response to danger is to kill it, the appropriate way to display gratitude is to lift up your skirt.
They're sick, they're frightening, they're incredibly sad.
captcha: Jacobian ociniss? Either a villain's name or the rare medical disorder which indirectly drives him to crime.