Movie Defense Force: Batman & Robin
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
Recommended Videos
As someone whose first exposition to Batman was Adam Wests version, I never had a problem with it 
Actually it felt more right than the Batman Returns. Now that one was really stupid. It slashed through the canon like crazy...
Actually it felt more right than the Batman Returns. Now that one was really stupid. It slashed through the canon like crazy...
Well, there was The Brave and the Bold cartoon series, with its retro looks and a tendency to feature as manyDC character as it could fit in both old school and new.
What I don't understand is the people that actually liked Batman Forever, but hated Batman & Robin. Val Kilmer had bat-nipples and gratuitous ass shots of the suit and neon henchmen and on and on and on. Anyone (Warner Brothers Executives!) who saw it should have been prepared for where B&R was going.
I have to say, though, if I had to sit through either the Burton films or the Schumacher films played 10 times in a row for some arbitrary reason, I'd much rather watch BF and B&R. Burton was just as over the top and campy and hammy, but everyone dressed in black so people imagine it was grittier for some reason.
I have to say, though, if I had to sit through either the Burton films or the Schumacher films played 10 times in a row for some arbitrary reason, I'd much rather watch BF and B&R. Burton was just as over the top and campy and hammy, but everyone dressed in black so people imagine it was grittier for some reason.
I never minded the ass shots and nipples - if you're going to craft a chestplate to be shaped like abs then why not nipples.twosage said:
But batman forever treated the characters seriously. The riddler and two face seem genuinely insane even if it's simply in an over the top campy style. Batman and Robin just took it too far.
I think you may need to watch it again. Two-face is just as one-note as Mr. Freeze. He's constantly making duality puns and has basically no motivation beyond he got burned on the face once. Riddler is... well Jim Carrey at his worst. Just constant mugging and dancing around. The only thing that Batman Forever legitimately has going for it is the psychological arc that Bruce has, topped off with "I'm Batman and Bruce Wayne, not because I have to be, but because I choose to be". That has the potential to be a powerful Batman story in the way that Alfred suffering silently with a degenerative disease... actually, that's pretty interesting, too. Both of the movies have genuinely interesting character arcs, but they are just lost underneath all of the silliness.wizzy555 said:
But I still think they both compare favorably to Batman and Batman Returns. All four remind me of the last few years of Roger Moore Bond movies. Just silly, over the top, and a shoe-horned plot about a madman wanting to do a wide-scale bad thing with ridiculous props. Maybe this whole franchise was some sort of reaction to the suddenly-darker Timothy Dalton version of Bond that smuggled cellists across borders and fought drug lords...?
I gotta respect anyone who makes a video and says, without equivocation, that they liked this movie. Props to you Jim.
I remember being disappointed with this movie even before it hit theaters, because at one point they wanted to have a very sympathetic Mr Freeze (similar to the Batman:TAS version) with Patrick Stewart doing it. When they moved away from that to the future Governator...I passed.
And while I can enjoy the idea of a campy style comic book movie, I think you'd really have to work to find the right mix to make it work. It'd almost have to be something along the lines of True Lies, something that is just bordering on self-aware without crossing that line. Otherwise you'd end up something like...well, something like Batman and Robin. And that's just not good.
I remember being disappointed with this movie even before it hit theaters, because at one point they wanted to have a very sympathetic Mr Freeze (similar to the Batman:TAS version) with Patrick Stewart doing it. When they moved away from that to the future Governator...I passed.
And while I can enjoy the idea of a campy style comic book movie, I think you'd really have to work to find the right mix to make it work. It'd almost have to be something along the lines of True Lies, something that is just bordering on self-aware without crossing that line. Otherwise you'd end up something like...well, something like Batman and Robin. And that's just not good.
I like Batman and Robin aswell as Batman Forever. Admittedly, i'm also a huge fan of 60s Batman and still watch some of the episodes once in a while. Shame it never got a DVD release. But i can also see why people were dissapointed by them. I thing if i expected a sequel to Batman Returns i would have been angry myself.
I'd vote for no more new batman. We had about enough batman and any attempt to give batman a new direction would have to be reaching so far that the end product would bear the name but little else of batman.
We have had campy batman before, there was the adam west series and a movie.
Later we had the Tim burton batman movies and animated series. Which i really liked.
Then we had campy batman again in two movies and then we got gritty batman again because apparently there's very little you can do with the character.
But that would also mean that we have already seen everything that can be done with the character.
So why would anyone wish for more batman movies? Maybe if they'd make a million more there will be one where the scarecrow gets a decent part. And another one where we see a gritty dark robin. Maybe there'd even be a batman beyond movie...
But really, i got about enough of gotham.
Why not shake it up and make way too many movies about a totally different character. Maybe one day, we'll get a tankgirl movie that's actually good.
We have had campy batman before, there was the adam west series and a movie.
Later we had the Tim burton batman movies and animated series. Which i really liked.
Then we had campy batman again in two movies and then we got gritty batman again because apparently there's very little you can do with the character.
But that would also mean that we have already seen everything that can be done with the character.
So why would anyone wish for more batman movies? Maybe if they'd make a million more there will be one where the scarecrow gets a decent part. And another one where we see a gritty dark robin. Maybe there'd even be a batman beyond movie...
But really, i got about enough of gotham.
Why not shake it up and make way too many movies about a totally different character. Maybe one day, we'll get a tankgirl movie that's actually good.
Sometimes it feels like you are trying to hard.
So, you liked Street Fighter... fine. It surely has its moments. But this? This movie is irredeemable. Its stupid and campy without acknowledging its campyness. The movie and the actors are all over the place: they make the Batcard reference right before we find out Alfred is dying, and we are supposed to care? Batman and Robin represents what was wrong with comic movies at the time. Its nothing but colorful advertisement for toys aimed exclusively at children.
Not that ultra dark and moody Batman is a lot better as a character, but at least its consistent.
You say that we should appreciate it in a post-Nolan world, but you don't realize that Nolan was the one that restored DC to movies. Before him, Schumacher and Clooney burned down the most profitable franchise DC ever had, and even when they are owned by a movie corporation, it took them 10 years and a massive success to try to make another movie again.
So, you liked Street Fighter... fine. It surely has its moments. But this? This movie is irredeemable. Its stupid and campy without acknowledging its campyness. The movie and the actors are all over the place: they make the Batcard reference right before we find out Alfred is dying, and we are supposed to care? Batman and Robin represents what was wrong with comic movies at the time. Its nothing but colorful advertisement for toys aimed exclusively at children.
Not that ultra dark and moody Batman is a lot better as a character, but at least its consistent.
You say that we should appreciate it in a post-Nolan world, but you don't realize that Nolan was the one that restored DC to movies. Before him, Schumacher and Clooney burned down the most profitable franchise DC ever had, and even when they are owned by a movie corporation, it took them 10 years and a massive success to try to make another movie again.
Jim, I've been with you on all your defense missions...but I just got to say I disagree here. I can see where you're coming from...but no. Just....no. Would it be cool if DC got their act together and tried to make a superhero movie that wasnt depressing? Yes. But you dont have to be retarded to be not depressing. Marvel can make fun movies that are not grimdark and not retarded.
Batman and Robin was retarded back then, I was relatively young when I first saw it and relatively easy to please...and I still facepalmed through the entire thing. It was awful then, and it is awful now.
Batman and Robin was retarded back then, I was relatively young when I first saw it and relatively easy to please...and I still facepalmed through the entire thing. It was awful then, and it is awful now.
Yeah but those versions of two-face and the riddler are manically insane (motivation may be weak but it's there and logically coherent) and portrayed darker. They are both obsessed with batman/Bruce Wayne, the manic delight as they play with him makes sense in the given context.twosage said:
Mr Freeze is suppose to be doing what is necessary to save his wife, poison ivy is trying to save plants, not having fun with toys as they fight the good guys.
Wow... I forgot how nearly every female in this movie is dressed in something extremely kinky. Or how insane Arnold's armor looked. I may have to use this for a drinking game this weekend.
... I actually always liked this movie.
And I can't stand the Chris Nolan Batman movies.
So... there's that.
And I can't stand the Chris Nolan Batman movies.
So... there's that.
Nostalgia Critic, you wanna take this one?
There was one- count 'em, one- moment I remember liking in B&R, and it was one moment that was actually played straight- Mr. Freeze sculpting an effigy of his wife to keep him company in prison. That kind of worked, surprisingly- one tiny moment of pathos in a landslide of neon freakshow.
The rest of it---- gah.
Thing is, I remember liking the Adam West Batman as a kid. But I liked it straight. Sure, in retrospect it was silly and campy and ridiculous. But it also had a certain weird respect for the underlying character and theme. Yeah, Batman was going to be going up against some wacky villain and their overly thematic and/or ridiculously Rube Goldberg-esque killing machine of the moment while the narrator waxed melodramatic about their danger. But Batman and Robin themselves were taking it as straight-men. The world was absurd, but Batman and Robin were still about fighting crime and protecting the innocent and advancing a vertitable Boy Scout code of honor.
Batman and Robin felt like it didn't respect the characters, didn't respect what had been done in the past, didn't even respect the audience. It didn't go quite far enough to move into out-and-out parody, and in that respect, it's hard to credit the idea that its creation was an act of bravery. It felt more like a sneering "You want me to hock my artistic credibility to sell action figures? Fine, we'll see how you like this!"
It wasn't just campy- it was rushed. It was ugly. It was full of action that was poorly staged, poorly shot, and frequently all but indecipherable on the screen. Long minutes of characters speaking out exposition. No one to like, to one to cheer for, and not a thing to care about.
Batman Forever didn't trip this particular switch for me, Bat-Nipples and all. In that, it was a short, "Ha ha, okay, yeah, I get it- the suit is kind of fetishistic." B&R had so much contempt for its audience that it repeated that joke at least twice- and recycled the "chicks dig the car" line.
I'm sorry, Sterling, I'm just not with you on this one. I think Batman and Robin should be buried where only Rifftrax can find it.
There was one- count 'em, one- moment I remember liking in B&R, and it was one moment that was actually played straight- Mr. Freeze sculpting an effigy of his wife to keep him company in prison. That kind of worked, surprisingly- one tiny moment of pathos in a landslide of neon freakshow.
The rest of it---- gah.
Thing is, I remember liking the Adam West Batman as a kid. But I liked it straight. Sure, in retrospect it was silly and campy and ridiculous. But it also had a certain weird respect for the underlying character and theme. Yeah, Batman was going to be going up against some wacky villain and their overly thematic and/or ridiculously Rube Goldberg-esque killing machine of the moment while the narrator waxed melodramatic about their danger. But Batman and Robin themselves were taking it as straight-men. The world was absurd, but Batman and Robin were still about fighting crime and protecting the innocent and advancing a vertitable Boy Scout code of honor.
Batman and Robin felt like it didn't respect the characters, didn't respect what had been done in the past, didn't even respect the audience. It didn't go quite far enough to move into out-and-out parody, and in that respect, it's hard to credit the idea that its creation was an act of bravery. It felt more like a sneering "You want me to hock my artistic credibility to sell action figures? Fine, we'll see how you like this!"
It wasn't just campy- it was rushed. It was ugly. It was full of action that was poorly staged, poorly shot, and frequently all but indecipherable on the screen. Long minutes of characters speaking out exposition. No one to like, to one to cheer for, and not a thing to care about.
Batman Forever didn't trip this particular switch for me, Bat-Nipples and all. In that, it was a short, "Ha ha, okay, yeah, I get it- the suit is kind of fetishistic." B&R had so much contempt for its audience that it repeated that joke at least twice- and recycled the "chicks dig the car" line.
I'm sorry, Sterling, I'm just not with you on this one. I think Batman and Robin should be buried where only Rifftrax can find it.
The one saving grace of this film is that it was so awful, when some near-unheard of director stepped forward with the wacky idea of starting the series all over again, WB said, 'Yeah, why not? It could hardly be any worse.'
You want a cheap and cheerful Adam-West-style Batman film to lighten the mood ahead of the inevitably gloomy Batman vs. Superman? Watch Adam West's Batman the Movie. Adam West's Batman gets away with its awfulness by the age-old defence of being thoroughly of its time. Batman & Robin wasn't only well beyond its time, but it was so tragic it surpassed the standard so bad it's bad, tried a desperate grab for so bad it's good, missed by so much even a Bat-grapple couldn't save it and landed up to its rubber nipples in so-shit-it's-worse.
You want a cheap and cheerful Adam-West-style Batman film to lighten the mood ahead of the inevitably gloomy Batman vs. Superman? Watch Adam West's Batman the Movie. Adam West's Batman gets away with its awfulness by the age-old defence of being thoroughly of its time. Batman & Robin wasn't only well beyond its time, but it was so tragic it surpassed the standard so bad it's bad, tried a desperate grab for so bad it's good, missed by so much even a Bat-grapple couldn't save it and landed up to its rubber nipples in so-shit-it's-worse.