MovieBob's thoughts on the ME3 ending controversy

Recommended Videos

Sentox6

New member
Jun 30, 2008
686
0
0
So, I wanted to share my thoughts (for what they're worth) on MovieBob's tweets regarding the ME3 ending controversy:

Bob Chipman said:
Congratulations, "Mass Effect" crybabies. You've officially set the entire medium back a DECADE as an art form

Also, Bioware? SHAME on you for caving. You've chosen to make coloring books instead of The Mona Lisa.

This is the WORST thing that has happened to gaming since Sega abandoned consoles.

How many more times do I need to explain that this has NOTHING to do with whether or not you "liked" the ending?

if your going to accept a game as ONLY a "product" then yes. But that means we CANNOT ask anyone to take gaming "seriously."

Look, a medium can produce ART or it can produce PRODUCT. If games can be changed at the whims of fanboys, then they are just product and we have no right to demand that Ebert etc take them (or US) "seriously."
To be blunt, I wrote the first three tweets off largely as hyperbole. I'm not saying that invalidates the underlying viewpoint, but it's very hard to build any sort of reasonable discussion from them. Let's say they release a new Fast and Furious movie, and fans hate the ending so much they release a new cut with different footage. Has the medium been set back 10 years? Can it no longer be called art in any context? Clearly not (I would hope).

The next point, I agree with. It's not about whether you liked the ending or not. Subjective dissatisfaction with narrative content is not really a compelling reason for a change to that content. It's perfectly reasonable to assert that you don't like the content - there's nothing wrong with fan feedback - but it's not really a campaign platform.

It's the final two quotes that I really take issue with. They're a surprisingly binary perspective (they seem to imply that a game can be either art or a product, with no middle ground), and frankly, they strike me as a little naive. Part of the issue is clarifying exactly what Bob feels subverts the artistic integrity (if you will) of a game. I can see two possible interpretations:

1) Changing the content of a game as a result of external criticism by financially contributing parties is a betrayal of artistic integrity. If this is the intended meaning, then games are already lost as art. There is no way that publishers (especially since BioWare is now a division of its publisher) and investors (and therefore consumers, albeit indirectly) don't have an impact on the creative direction and development of the game. Mass Effect 3 was a commercial project developed by commercial artists in order to generate revenue. Art or not, the decision-making process undoubtedly involved concerns relating to product sales.

2) Changing the content of a game as a result of external criticism subsequent to release is a betrayal of artistic integrity. I don't find this line of reasoning convincing at all (so financial and fan interests can dictate the development of art, but not any amendment of it?). Either way, though, the existence of the Broken Steel DLC renders this interpretation irrelevant. The 'damage' is already done; the precedent is set. There's nothing new to see here.

Returning back to the point that it's not about one's subjective preference for the ending, the real problem in my mind is that - whether you call it art or a product - gamers did not receive what they were lead to believe they would. Here is one pre-release quote (of many in the same theme):

Casey Hudson said:
This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we?re taking into account so many decisions that you?ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It?s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.
Anyone who has experienced the endings of ME3 can attest that this is the exact opposite of the actual content we received. The importance of "artistic integrity" should not be used as a shield to avoid this. Clear statements were made about the type of ending players would receive, and those statements were not adhered to. Is moral integrity worth less than a concept of artistic integrity? Is artistic integrity a defence against simple bad business?

Whether or not you want games to be considered art instead of products (if indeed those two concepts are entirely mutually exclusive), the fact remains that this game was sold as a product, and many indications of the content of that product were given. Those indications turned out to be patent falsehoods, and consequently some consumers are upset. Apparently they can't have the product they were lead to believe they would receive, though, because that would violate "art".
 

DustyDrB

Made of ticky tacky
Jan 19, 2010
8,365
3
43
I'm gonna do something crazy and say...I understand both points of view and am pretty conflicted about it myself.
 

Fr]anc[is

New member
May 13, 2010
1,893
0
0
The endings have to have artistic integrity in the first place for it to be betrayed or violated.

I'd rather have awesome, enjoyable games than have some stuck up artsy douchebag take shitty games "seriously"

Also I'd like to hear his opinions on comic books as art, since you know he did multiple episodes about how fans changed Green Lantern, and the world did not implode once that happened.
 

RedEyesBlackGamer

The Killjoy Detective returns!
Jan 23, 2011
4,701
0
0
I look forward to The Big Picture episode where he gets on his soapbox and starts hurling insults at us.
 

him over there

New member
Dec 17, 2011
1,728
0
0
I'm going to agree with Bob in a different way and say; Who cares? The games are still sweet as hell, If they were considered art it wouldn't make publishers try harder because making a mediocre experience sells like hot cakes and investing more time and resources aren't going to bolster sales, and honestly it isn't like games are part of some "Not Art" club. barely anybody thinks movies or music are art anymore either. Yes they are crafted and yes they are sometimes moving but not many people care. All of these things are just entertainment, and not calling them art isn't suddenly going to make them bad for the same reason that calling them art doesn't suddenly make them better.

To be fair though about everyone at this point should take Bob "I champion woman's rights Piranha 3-D is a fantastic movie because it has boobies" Chimpman's opinions with a grain of salt anyway. Also again they already did literally this exact same scenario only a slightly smaller scale with Metal Gear Solid 4:
Replacing the honour suicide of Snake with the revelation that Big Boss was alive and they have a schmaltsy heart to heart talk
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

I never asked for this
Sep 8, 2011
6,651
0
0
To put it simply, Movie Bob is...well, wrong.

Mass Effect stopped being art the moment it's creators decided to screw up the ending with all those plot holes and inconsistencies.

And just because Mass Effect might not be art doesn't disqualify video games as an art form. Some games are art, some are just products. Same with everything else. Not all movies are art, not all books, paintings, sculptures etc. are art.
 

SpaceBat

New member
Jul 9, 2011
743
0
0
SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Heres a question for all you artsy geniuses out there, what is more immature:

1) A community spending every waking moment foaming at the mouth about a stories ending, review bombing, dismissing everything Bioware's ever done, constantly whining, clinging onto the words of someone who is not a source of reliable info and more.

2) Spending every waking moment lecturing other people on your personal interests because you cannot, you just CANNOT enjoy something without knowing a majority of people are no longer indifferent on the subject?
While I don't disagree with what you said, you do realize that the examples above (which I fixed) are incredibly biased, right? The former could have been done in a more mature way, but right now, both groups have been acting in an equally childish manner.
 

boag

New member
Sep 13, 2010
1,623
0
0
Also consider this, apparently Hudson and Walter completely disregarded the artistic view of the rest of the writers so that they could put in the ending THEY wanted, where is the artistic integrity in that?
 

The Madman

New member
Dec 7, 2007
4,404
0
0
As a general rule I tend to disagree with Movie Bob whenever he talks about video games, this is no exception.

I have not played Mass Effect 3, nor will I likely any time soon for various reasons, but that doesn't mean I'm oblivious to what's going on around me. Hell, one of my best friends wouldn't and still hasn't shut up about how much he hates the ending for that game and how it 'ruined his experience' and whatnot. Disappointing considering how till he reached the end he'd had nothing but good things to say about the game. Now however? It's difficult to get anything but bitterness and complaints out of him when it comes to the series.

And you know what? That's fine. People should voice their concerns, if they didn't nothing would ever be done about it. My understanding of it is that Bioware, for lack of better words, broke the trust and failed to deliver on their promises. If that's the case they should be held accountable for it. Game developers and publishers aren't god-like monolith exempt from criticism after all.

It's perfectly reasonable.

On a side note I also find it hilarious when as I recall one of the first video of his I was ever linked was a lengthy rant about how SEGA screwed up Sonic and how he thought it could be salvaged and fixed. Unless there's something I'm missing, I can't help but find his actions now a bit hypocritical.
 

Hal10k

New member
May 23, 2011
850
0
0
Look, Bioware can change or leave the ending as far as I care. I'd personally prefer that they pull a mulligan, though by no means do I consider it to be a necessity. But by no means would changing the ending somehow set games back as an artistic medium. For starters, this wouldn't exactly be unprecedented. Bethesda altered the ending of Fallout 3 to make it more logical in some areas, and were met with a modest degree of praise for doing so, because the new ending was seen as superior. Valve retconned the happy ending of the original Portal so the progression to Portal 2 would make more sense. In both cases, the altered product was seen by some, particularly the developers, as being the superior version.

One of the unfortunate facts about art for commercial purposes is that, in some cases, the original artists retain control over the product even after it has been published, and have the liberty to make alterations should they see fit. George Lucas is an unfortunate side effect of this policy, but the fact of the matter is that artistic expression as a whole would be severely limited if not for the sort of liberties granted to him. So long as the original ending is still around for the curious to witness, I see no reason why changing the ending would be an inherently bad thing.
 

SpaceBat

New member
Jul 9, 2011
743
0
0
boag said:
Also consider this, apparently Hudson and Walter completely disregarded the artistic view of the rest of the writers so that they could put in the ending THEY wanted, where is the artistic integrity in that?
Do you have some kind of source for this?
 

Fr]anc[is

New member
May 13, 2010
1,893
0
0
SpaceBat said:
boag said:
Also consider this, apparently Hudson and Walter completely disregarded the artistic view of the rest of the writers so that they could put in the ending THEY wanted, where is the artistic integrity in that?
Do you have some kind of source for this?
http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/5695/article/mass-effect-3-writer-allegedly-slams-controversial-ending/
 

Kahunaburger

New member
May 6, 2011
4,141
0
0
Considering that his defense of Other M basically boiled down to:



...I tend to take whatever he has to say about video game controversies with a grain of salt.
 

Savagezion

New member
Mar 28, 2010
2,455
0
0
Sentox6 said:
Bob Chipman said:
This is the WORST thing that has happened to gaming since Sega abandoned consoles.
Well, at least that explains why he isn't GamerBob.

Me and him disagree most of the time, so its no surprise I think he is wrong yet again. I don't care about a poor movie critics view on the subject. It isn't shocking he has nothing new to add to the discussion, just recycled statements of gaming site articles playing up to Bioware's PR that coincidentally have motive to protect their ad space.