MovieBob's thoughts on the ME3 ending controversy

[Ticonderoga117]

*snip*

While I can't speak for everyone of course, I can say that I myself am not demanding a change. I really, REALLY, hope they do, but sadly, at the end of the day I'm not the head-honcho making decisions. However, is just saying "To hell with it" at the end of the day the best course of action? Personally, I don't think so, at least not here.

To keep this short, putting Bioware in the spot light for this disregard of their own promises and standards is much more effective than just shipping the game off. At least, in my opinion it is.

In the short term, you may be right. It sets a dangerous precedent though, especially given Bioware's prominence. That's what scares me, really. If Bioware is able to come out of all of this with massive DLC sales despite failing to deliver on their promises until they wrangled even more money out of us, I'll feel worse as a gamer as a whole, and there will be nothing stopping other companies from following in their footsteps

This is a VERY good point, and I agree that it would sicken me to see game developers make a good game with a crap end just so they can make even more money with a fix. However, considering certain publishers *cough*EA*cough* already seem to be gunning towards a "We're going to milk the money out of you anyway possible" through something like this [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR6-u8OIJTE], I can't say if this will hurry things on.

However, what this does set a good precedent for though is that if you seriously anger gamers, woe to the company that thinks they can do whatever they want. Ok, maybe not such a good idea, but I think it adds some balance into the relationship between us and them, which is a good thing.

 

[anthony87]

Oh man, some video game ending was disappointing and not what we expected. That never happened before. Welp, I better go sign some petition right the fuck now

.......Seriously?

10 pages of discussion about the issue in this thread ALONE and you still manage to miss the point so hard that the point is now so embarrassed for you that its gone home quietly weeping to itself.

Impressive.

 

[Busard]

Oh man, some video game ending was disappointing and not what we expected. That never happened before. Welp, I better go sign some petition right the fuck now

.......Seriously?

10 pages of discussion about the issue in this thread ALONE and you still manage to miss the point so hard that the point is now so embarrassed for you that its gone home quietly weeping to itself.

Impressive.

I seriously do not care.

I tried for a while, answered some stuff in other threads, got interested for a while, but now I just don't.

After seeing the gajillion thread about the same video game, I just decided to go full troll mode until the weeping masses find some other VIDYAGAEM to be outraged about.

 

[richd213]

Pretty sure exactly the same thing happened with the novel Mass effect: deception. The novel didn't fit with the universe they had created and fan feedback got them to change it. What's so bad about that?

 

[WanderingFool]

I look forward to The Big Picture episode where he gets on his soapbox and starts hurling insults at us.

Just wait a few more days and watch his Game Overthinker episode.

I knew once Bob got wind of this, he would of course come out swing at the people complaining. Its going to be like his Escape to the Movies for The Expendables, or any other movie that he feels sets back civilization as a whole.

 

[Yeager942]

I love Moviebob, but I couldn't disagree more.

 

[boag]

No one is holding them at gun point, they are free to not change anything and tell customers to fuck off, but in doing so they will probably get less repeat customers.

And they didnt seem to give to many fucks when they canned Karpyshyn, when his artistic integrity became a bother to them.

No, they are just blowing everything out of proportion, going on a whine-crusade for the better part of 3 weeks now. They only tried to use child's play as a vehicle for their own selfish ambitions and to shame people who actually called them out on their bullshit with "Oh, you must not like CHARITY".

Shrugging all of the sudden and saying "We didn't do anything" doesn't cut it.

Remember Kids: If large corporations whose sole goal is to make profit whatever the means use Charities in order to promote their product and increase profit, then it is completely okay! But dirty Plebs such as yourselves doing this is a big, no-no!


EDIT: Okay, I read up on this Karpyshyn guy and apparently he left because of *gasp* his own personal project (something called Child of Fire), also that he is going to write a TOR novel. Meaning that he probably wasn't canned because of his artistic integrity, considering hes still pursuing projects for Bioware.

Ah yes, because having Walters thrown in to take over his job wasnt absolutely disheartening right? and the rest of the writers just had to swallow their artistic integrity so that Walters and Hudson could do whatever the fuck they wanted, so its ok for them to tell them to shove it, but its not ok for the customer to do so, got it.

http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/5695/article/mass-effect-3-writer-allegedly-slams-controversial-ending/

 

[Yeager942]

I love Moviebob, but I couldn't disagree more.

Honestly it wouldn't be so bad if he was giving an opinion on something he knows something about. And wasn't flooding his argument with hyperbole to make up for lack of an argument.

Honestly, if you've never played the game or had any investment in the story or universe, can you really say what should or should be done? It feels like half the shit the "pundits" of game journalism say is just designed to get page hits. It's hard to defend ME as "art" when its storytelling this bad.

http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=15395

Thanks Shamus. You've described it perfectly.

 

[Yeager942]

Really if the story can't stand up on it's own without an artistic statement to shield it from criticism, then the artistic statement deserves neither my respect or recognition. So if the artistic integrety has to go to make the story make sense, then so be it, don't care. You want your message to remain in tact; I want what I paid for. Guess who takes precedence?

10/10

 

[RanD00M]

I don't think mister Bob Chipman understand that not all games are art, much like not all paintings are art.
We have games like Limbo, pretentious, artsy and in my opinion, quite boring[footnote]This does not apply to all artsy games, I'm talking strictly Limbo.[/footnote].
Then we have games that Bob would call products, lets say for instance League of Legends. It's not for everyone however it's really open for new people, mainstream and not even considered to be close to art.
Would you really class these both games as art because they are both games? Of course not. I just said that.

I think Bob also sees to fail that GAMES are entertainment first, anything else second. Or so they should be.

 

[Sentox6]

I addressed this point with another person here, but the Fallout 3 ending change was different because the developers saw a problem with it and changed it of their own accord so that the story may continue. These changes would have happened regardless of player feedback.

I'm gonna have to ask for a source on that. I linked an interview earlier in the thread where Todd Howard clearly stated that despite their initial inclination to be defensive, they had to admit their mistake and fix it.

That account does not agree with yours.

 

[Smeggs]

Because I've ever cared what MovieBob's opinion was before?

If you want your game to be lauded as art, then don't cop out with a plothole-filled ending in the first place after leading your entire fanbase on saying that's not how it would end.

Trying to claim Mass Effect is a work of art anyway is like trying to claim that Diehard should be played at international film festivals. It's a good action game with some good writing, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

In its base essence, Mass Effect was just another BOOM-GOES-THE-ALIEN.

When a game finally actually puts me to tears, crying to the heavens asking, "WHAT COULD IT MEAN?! THAT WAS SO BEAUTIFUL!" Then I'll consider it art.

I punched way too many Geth into walls to keep up an illusion of anything above a good action RPG.

 

[RanD00M]

Really if the story can't stand up on it's own without an artistic statement to shield it from criticism, then the artistic statement deserves neither my respect or recognition. So if the artistic integrety has to go to make the story make sense, then so be it, don't care. You want your message to remain in tact; I want what I paid for. Guess who takes precedence?

That.That. That couldn't have been said better.

 

[Sentox6]

Sadly, I'm about to get on a flight, so I can't give your response the dignity it deserves. I'll just have to say that it saddens me that we've reached the day in which WE decide the standard all art should meet, and that the artist is not allowed to fail unless they are willing to change everything to what WE want. Art can be bad sometimes, and you have to accept it and move on. To me, that people are unwilling to do that is the far bigger mess

Right, because it's not like I've ever played a game I didn't like without complaining about it. To be frank: get real.

Virtually no one has an issue with moving on from a game they didn't subjectively enjoy. All of us do it all the time. The issue here is that we have a massive interlinked trilogy where the creator has gone out of there way to imbue us, the players, with a sense of ownership (or at least a stake) in the universe, and has made very specific promises regarding the content of the ending. Now people are understandably upset, and want the matter resolved. It's outright wrong to use a concept like artistic integrity as a defense against this, unless we want to discard the meaning of the word "integrity".

 

[Falsename]

Games are Art? Sure... I can work with that.

In a Gallery there is a big, beautiful painting there that captures your emotions and makes you feel incredible. You love this painting but... wait... look there there's a big black smudge!

What do you do? You tell someone, tell them about that smudge that ruins the entirety of the Art. He tells someone else and someone else, soon they get the artist over and say "Sorry to be the bearer of bad new, but there's a smudge on your art".

He says. "Yeah, I put it there on purpose. Wanted to catch your attention, make you remember this image".

Everyone is quiet, rather stunned as the artist looks around with a goofy smile on his face. Then the original one, the noticer of the smudge yells. "WE WOULD HAVE REMEMBERED THIS PAINTING BECAUSE IT'S BEAUTIFUL. NOT BECAUSE OF A GOD-DAMN-SMUDGE!"

 

[Ossifer]

I'm sorry if I missed something, but is it impossible for something to be both art and a product?

Like, if I tell someone that I'm going to make them a 50 dollar portrait of their family, and I show them examples of previous work and explain the details of what I'm going to make, and they agree to it, I can't make them a portrait with random clown noses superimposed over the image and still expect to be paid.

If I was doing it for free, just for myself, I could slap on all the clown noses I wanted. However, if someone else is paying for a certain type or quality of product, then I make it. No questions asked. Any "artistic integrity" flies out of the window when you are being specifically commissioned.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=15395

Thanks Shamus. You've described it perfectly.

Man, I shouldn't have read that. I was slowly working my way towards acceptance of shit like the Star Child and the Cycle. Now I hate it more than ever.

It's just so...so...indefensible.