Uh, that's a Slippery Slope down to its definition.Crono1973 said:
ASIDE: FIVE TIMES NOW. FIVE. The same fucking Captcha Ad!
For two posts, and two revisions since my net keeps chonking on me.
MS, Apple, Blizzard, EA, WB and Disney ban all NY sex offenders
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ASIDE: FIVE TIMES NOW. FIVE. The same fucking Captcha Ad!
For two posts, and two revisions since my net keeps chonking on me.
The sex offender registry is a terrible source of injustice, it should be abolished.
I agree with you, although non-violent drug offenders are another group that face never ending punishments, for example murderers and sex offenders can still get financial aid to go to college, but drug offenders can't.Crono1973 said:
Oh right, all slippery slopes are fallacies, right? It's not like we have Day 1, on disc DLC like all those people with their slippery slope fallacies said we would.Atmos Duality said:
On the captcha thing, don't you feel like a corporate whore typing slogans? I know I do.
I'm going to preface my statement with this; I have never had any kind of "sex crime" committed on me, however, I do know two people who have (both at young ages). Also, I will not continue with this line of discussion since it's somewhat off-topic and honestly, will make a lot of people uncomfortable.Crono1973 said:
This statement is going to sound really strange but hopefully you'll get what I'm trying to say:
From what I've seen, sex crime against someone almost does seem worse. With murder, it's kind of "one and done"; you're dead, it's over. With rape/molestation, it sticks with you and can seriously fuck up your life. I have a friend who completely flips out whenever any guy touches them (I patted them on the back during a video game...you'd have thought that I just murdered his dog right in front of him). Some victims recover right away (person #2 in my life is just fine after what happened to them) but for a lot of people, it completely demolishes their life. Sure, they're still alive but it ruins their relationships, their trust, their friendships, everything.
I didn't know that about drug offenders. That's pretty messed up too "You were involved with drugs so you can't go to college unless you sell some drugs to get the money yourself. Had you murdered or raped someone though, we could help you."isometry said:
Well, I was a victim of a sex crime when I was a child and I can tell you that I would rather be here today than having been dead for the last XX years because I was murdered instead. I only ask that my attacker serve his/her time. I wouldn't want someone punished for the rest of their lives. There's a name for that, vengeance.tippy2k2 said:
People flip out for all kinds of reasons, veterans come back from war all messed up sometimes, maybe we should be punishing the government non stop because of the damage they cause?
My opinion is that this applies to all "sex offenders" as I read this, as opposed to simply specific ones, and "sex offender" can mean a lot of things. What's more with games requiring online connectivity, and everything going increasingly multi-player, this is basically banning anyone who is a sex offender from gaming... and that's pushing it.
Yes, we should be keeping known pedophilles out of games like Disney's "Pirates Of the Carribean" or that "Hello Kitty Online" game, but some guy who did a year in jail after an ambigious date rape conviction (like how people can be convicted of say getting their date drunk and taking advantage of them in some places), public masterbation, or some other thing that is could be considered bad but not "OMG" bad, probably shouldn't be facing this.
Once someone has done their time, that should be it, and I have an issue with discriminating against former convicts based on their records, and feel that this has always been one of the big issues with keeping those kinds of records and making them availible... on a lot of subjects, not just sex offense.
That said, I believe that for many crimes the penelties should be higher. The problem is when a convicted pedophille is simply put into jail and released, without more strict penelties like legally mandated chemical castration. Really we cause a lot of these problems by giving people slaps on the wrist, and running the prisons on a sort of revolving door system. The way we currently interpet "protection against cruel and unusual punishment" which is far differant than the original intent, means that people who committ crimes are more afraid of the other inmates than the prisons and sentences themselves.
Of course at the same time, I think people misunderstand how pedophilles work, they can spend a long time grooming their victims. Generally speaking pedos do not just login to a game, chat mode, or other location and immediatly try and convince victims to go places with them. They can spend weeks, months, or sometimes even years planning thesee things. It's not an accident that a lot of missing persons are never found.
See, the pedo or general sex offender people are afraid of is the one who is going to say talk to some kid for a period of time, earn their confidence, perhaps by allying (covertly) against the parents (all kinds have problems with their parents) and then eventually working things to try ans get the kid to come meet them after a fight. Your teenage or tween runaway going about it with a plan to go meet their friend or whatever and hide out there. Done correctly an abductor might just work by sending a kid a plane (or bus) ticket, and a few bucks, and then picking them up at the desination... with the victim never being seen again (since if done right the abductor might not even live in the area the pick up is made in).
Basically it's not the initially creepy guy people are worried about, and most serious sex offenders, especially repete offenders, tend to be pretty charismatic in their own way, especially those who actually stalk prey as opposed to performing sudden street rapes or whatever (that isn't usually the concern when it comes to electronic devices). That dude in your teenage daughter's guild that she hangs out with might be the sex offender.
In short, I understand the reasons, and they are better than most people who agree with me in not liking what's being done here give them credit for. I just think that there are better ways of handling the situation, this kind of policing is wrong, rather I think we need more strict penelties, and to give the goverment the abillity to castrate sex offenders without needing any permission other than a conviction.
Yes, we should be keeping known pedophilles out of games like Disney's "Pirates Of the Carribean" or that "Hello Kitty Online" game, but some guy who did a year in jail after an ambigious date rape conviction (like how people can be convicted of say getting their date drunk and taking advantage of them in some places), public masterbation, or some other thing that is could be considered bad but not "OMG" bad, probably shouldn't be facing this.
Once someone has done their time, that should be it, and I have an issue with discriminating against former convicts based on their records, and feel that this has always been one of the big issues with keeping those kinds of records and making them availible... on a lot of subjects, not just sex offense.
That said, I believe that for many crimes the penelties should be higher. The problem is when a convicted pedophille is simply put into jail and released, without more strict penelties like legally mandated chemical castration. Really we cause a lot of these problems by giving people slaps on the wrist, and running the prisons on a sort of revolving door system. The way we currently interpet "protection against cruel and unusual punishment" which is far differant than the original intent, means that people who committ crimes are more afraid of the other inmates than the prisons and sentences themselves.
Of course at the same time, I think people misunderstand how pedophilles work, they can spend a long time grooming their victims. Generally speaking pedos do not just login to a game, chat mode, or other location and immediatly try and convince victims to go places with them. They can spend weeks, months, or sometimes even years planning thesee things. It's not an accident that a lot of missing persons are never found.
See, the pedo or general sex offender people are afraid of is the one who is going to say talk to some kid for a period of time, earn their confidence, perhaps by allying (covertly) against the parents (all kinds have problems with their parents) and then eventually working things to try ans get the kid to come meet them after a fight. Your teenage or tween runaway going about it with a plan to go meet their friend or whatever and hide out there. Done correctly an abductor might just work by sending a kid a plane (or bus) ticket, and a few bucks, and then picking them up at the desination... with the victim never being seen again (since if done right the abductor might not even live in the area the pick up is made in).
Basically it's not the initially creepy guy people are worried about, and most serious sex offenders, especially repete offenders, tend to be pretty charismatic in their own way, especially those who actually stalk prey as opposed to performing sudden street rapes or whatever (that isn't usually the concern when it comes to electronic devices). That dude in your teenage daughter's guild that she hangs out with might be the sex offender.
In short, I understand the reasons, and they are better than most people who agree with me in not liking what's being done here give them credit for. I just think that there are better ways of handling the situation, this kind of policing is wrong, rather I think we need more strict penelties, and to give the goverment the abillity to castrate sex offenders without needing any permission other than a conviction.
Aren't there laws or something about punishing criminals beyond their sentences? I mean, granted I can't honestly say I feel particularly sorry for them, but still, is it even legal to do that?
captcha: know the ropes. Yeah, I certainly don't in this case.
captcha: know the ropes. Yeah, I certainly don't in this case.
You do realize that the quote you're incorrectly referencing (the Jews weren't the first ones they came after) is about the Holocaust, right?Crono1973 said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came%E2%80%A6
Murderers and child rapists aren't at all the same.
Child rape is not a crime of passion; it is a complete violation of trust and abuse of power over a child.
I can only assume that you're too young to get the reference I was making to a movie called Airplane. In short: it was a joke.Fr said:
I fully agree that's a bunch of BS. That's public intoxication combined with indecent exposure at the most, certainly not worthy of being considered a sex crime.Kahunaburger said:
Don't think I ever came close to saying that murder is better than talking about penises. But last time I checked, you can't stab someone through your mic.Crono1973 said:
If by "island" you mean "prison", then yeah, toss'em on that "island" and let them pay for their crimes.Crono1973 said:
To all of the above: Look guys, let me be clear by stating that I agree that the punishment should fit the crime. You shouldn't hassel sex offenders that have been released and reintegrated back into society until they commit a crime again. The keyword in my post was "I don't believe you can be fully rehabilitated. You'll always have urges yadda yadda yadda." That doesn't mean I believe people are incapable of fighting their own urges. They should still be watched, however.
All this said, though, while my first post suggested I was kinda on the fence, I am willing to say now that I do think an all-out ban on sex offenders would be wrong. The whole "innocent until proven guilty" notion goes hand in hand with "don't punish until there's a crime". And before you say anything, I don't believe surveillance is a punishment, it's a precautionary measure.
By definition: Yes they are still fallacies. Even in hindsight.Crono1973 said:
Forward thinking is fine. Guesses are fine, and hindsight can prove trends.
Assumptions without evidence? Not fine.
No, the topic itself isn't evidence of that. One action in itself is not a trend. If more companies start expanding this program of theirs, then I'll consider it as a point (but not as proof, Correlation is not the same as Causality). But until then, it's definitely a Slippery Slope, sorry.
Sigh...Strawman Argument. But I'll use this to make a point:
Hindsight alone does not disprove a fallacy, even if the argument turned out to be correct, since that's a recursive argument made under new context.
When that happens, the topic needs a new argument, no matter how similar that new argument might be to the old fallacious one, since the conditions have changed.
(In court, this is part of what New Evidence and Cross-Examination attempts to achieve; to force the opposition to either refine a good argument, and/or to drop a poor argument based on changing context. Not to be confused with intent, such as proving someone innocent/guilty. Arguments are all points towards that intent, and not the intent themselves.)
Sorry if I come across as hostile here, but just approach the topic more logically and with a tad less aggression. Logos before Pathos, and all.
Yup. Still sucks. :/
I get that Ads pay the bills for the site, and that I can eliminate them by buying into their exclusive little club...but I'll be damned if I'm spending 20 bucks on a website that's already exceedingly difficult for me to access on high-traffic days, or when my own internet decides it's going to be squiffy (as it is now).
As a deterrent for bots: I don't see how these fucking things are supposed to work when they're this consistent. Randomization is why they work; otherwise you just write a little parser program for your spambot and off you go (until the inevitable ban anyway).
Look, I told you I wasn't talking about the holocaust, so you can either believe me or not. I really don't care. I told you what point I was making I think you are just refusing to acknowledge that point.fookolt said:
I never said murderers and child rapists are all the same, murderers aren't even all the same. Look, you hate on sex offenders all you like and you wish lifelong vengeance on them. I don't really have much else to say about this.
For the record though, no one cares about why people molest children, they just want to punish them so don't take any half ass studies seriously.
Here's the thing though: child rapists are not a political group nor are they an ethnic group. Being Jewish or a communist is not at all the same thing as being a child rapist.Crono1973 said:
If you actually looked up the point you were making, you'd realize that
I don't hate child rapists.
I just have this apparently very unique idea that they need help and shouldn't be allowed to interact with children either in real life or online.
And there are plenty of public health researchers who care about why people molest children. Why would you say something so ignorant?
Have you ever been in a cockpit before, or ever been in a Turkish prison? Have you ever seen a grown man naked?RJ 17 said:
Yeah, I have to agree that I'm pretty much 100% sure that this will never actually save anyone or stop a sex offender who is determined to reoffend. Pointless politically motivated laws, to make the Attourney General look good.
Just in case you're wondering, I am done with this for now, I gotta cool off. That's why I am not answering the rest of your post.
However, to the quoted part. The Captchas were supposed to be to weed out bots and spammers, not to pay the bills. I have always held out hope that they would eventually take the advice of me and other posters and remove the captchas for accounts in good standing. After all, how many times must we prove we are straight shooters? With the advertising dollars added in now, I know that will never happen.
Okay, I dunno how so many people on this site seem to be saying that all (or at least most) sex offenders are pedophile rapists or some sort of horrible human being. Not all have done something (too) bad. If you turn 18, have a 16 year old girlfriend, and her parents don't like you, if they call the cops, then BAM, sex offender. If one of your friends thinks it would be funny if they pants you and your underwear falls off while a child is nearby and sees you, BAM, sex offender. Both of these happened to people I know. Even though the charges have been dropped both times, it's impossible to get off the sex offender's list.
This whole banning is horrible, sure, some people actually are pedo-rapists, but the majority of sex offenders have done barely anything, or didn't have any malicious intents. I might have a slightly better opinion on this if the whole sex offender list wasn't a load of crap.
heck, you can be put on the list for just talking about sex in public
This whole banning is horrible, sure, some people actually are pedo-rapists, but the majority of sex offenders have done barely anything, or didn't have any malicious intents. I might have a slightly better opinion on this if the whole sex offender list wasn't a load of crap.
heck, you can be put on the list for just talking about sex in public
So they don't care what kind of sex offense is in question? What if someone just grabbed waitresses ass? This law is wrong. If those people are free that means they paid their debt to society. Treating them like that no matter what they've done isn't right.
Oh, so that's where half my friends list went overnight. That sucks. I'd rather play with a bunch of paedos and rapists than no-one at all, I tell ye! It doesn't matter, as long as they play fair.