Murdering of innocents in video games (Morality topic, nothing to do with gaming)

[haddaway234]

No offense but this shows you have some problems. By that I mean you seem to have trouble distinguishing what is real and what is not. If you still don't understand what I mean, the woman you "killed" was not real. She did not have a "loving family, partner, etc" this is all just something you came up with in your own head.

If every time you kill an "innocent" person in a video game, you drop to your knees and scream to the heavens "What treachery hath I brought!!!!!!!!!" I think you may need to take things down a notch and stop taking everything so seriously.

 

[default]

No offense but this shows you have some problems. By that I mean you seem to have trouble distinguishing what is real and what is not. If you still don't understand what I mean, the woman you "killed" was not real. She did not have a "loving family, partner, etc" this is all just something you came up with in your own head.

If every time you kill an "innocent" person in a video game, you drop to your knees and scream to the heavens "What treachery hath I brought!!!!!!!!!" I think you may need to take things down a notch and stop taking everything so seriously.

........you serious bro? I don't know what's real?

I was talking about what she represented. Do you think I'm retarded? Do I really come across like that to you?

Actually... Don't answer that...

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

As long as you understand the difference, I don't see the problem. You are not hacking up a person with a family. You are destroying a game designers creation made out of 1s and 0s. The excessive blood and dismemberment is simply an Amy of Darkness pit scene style fun time.

Also, in the words of a great villain, what is innocent? Is it because you never killed anyone? Is it because they never harmed you? Where do you draw the line between necessary collateral damage and killing innocents?

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Games are only as violent as you want to be so I say bring on more 18+ games. You can finish Postal 2 without killing a single person but if you want you can turn it into the most fucked up game ever. You accidentally killed the civilian the game did not force you to do so. A game that does this is not wrong in any sense. In Prototype you make it as violent as you want or not it is up to you. Also a lot people all over the world don't have a little fucked up sadist in them.

Personally I think you are probably a bit too sensitive or connected to your games emotionally. Yes I felt sad when Aeris died same as I would for any other well developed main character. I will not feel sorry however, or any empathy for a mesh and a blood texture on the floor that is not more than binary code represented using colour on a monitor. You can feel sad for what it represented but I think you are feeling too much sorrow over something that is not really there.

 

[haddaway234]

As long as you understand the difference, I don't see the problem. You are not hacking up a person with a family. You are destroying a game designers creation made out of 1s and 0s. The excessive blood and dismemberment is simply an Amy of Darkness pit scene style fun time.

Also, in the words of a great villain, what is innocent? Is it because you never killed anyone? Is it because they never harmed you? Where do you draw the line between necessary collateral damage and killing innocents?

What villain said that? Because thats actually pretty true.

 

[haddaway234]

No offense but this shows you have some problems. By that I mean you seem to have trouble distinguishing what is real and what is not. If you still don't understand what I mean, the woman you "killed" was not real. She did not have a "loving family, partner, etc" this is all just something you came up with in your own head.

If every time you kill an "innocent" person in a video game, you drop to your knees and scream to the heavens "What treachery hath I brought!!!!!!!!!" I think you may need to take things down a notch and stop taking everything so seriously.

........you serious bro? I don't know what's real?

I was talking about what she represented. Do you think I'm retarded? Do I really come across like that to you?

Actually... Don't answer that...

She didn't represent anything. Again, you are the one thinking this up. I highly doubt that the developers were thinking about what the randoms civilians "represent and meant". You are looking far too deep into this.

Also I'm very interested in you answering this question: Why does it matter if its not even real?

 

[haddaway234]

Just think how the hell would you feel if some dude jumped from the sky and ripped your head off coz he needed some health?

I would not care even a little bit, in fact I would probably be flattered that they decided to put me into a video game. Again, your avoiding the main point of what every counter-argument is saying to you: its not real, and its not actually happening.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

As long as you understand the difference, I don't see the problem. You are not hacking up a person with a family. You are destroying a game designers creation made out of 1s and 0s. The excessive blood and dismemberment is simply an Amy of Darkness pit scene style fun time.

Also, in the words of a great villain, what is innocent? Is it because you never killed anyone? Is it because they never harmed you? Where do you draw the line between necessary collateral damage and killing innocents?

What villain said that? Because thats actually pretty true.

I don't remember exactly, but I think it was Heath Ledger as the Joker in The Dark Knight. I think the actual quote was something like "No one is innocent. Given the chance, these people will eat each other." Still good though.

 

[Jimson]

To be honest, if I remember correctly this game did it in an amazing way. It kind of sought to remind you that you are in fact killing real people, by having you take on there memories when they die (Now of course I think this was only with plot driven characters) needless to say they did a lot to try and remind you of WHAT exactly your doing.

They also did a good job of making you question your morals by putting the maincharacter in a situation where he himself was only trying to survive, and protect (initially) those he loved.

 

[HK_01]

Yep, probably overly sensitive. Just make it clear to yourself that those are just pixels that look like humans.

Also, the soldiers have family too, don't you think? So you'd have to stop playing every single game ever (well, almost).

 

[mooncalf]

To plagiarise Hicks... I had a great time playing violent videogames. Never murdered anyone, never robbed anyone, never raped anyone, never beat anyone, never lost a job, a car, a house, a wife or kids, laughed my ass off, and went about my day.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

It is not real. Your feelings exist due to making the assumption that the person you killed is real. The reason we play games is to do what we can't do in real life. You can't cut people in half, jump from bloc to bloc and fly in real life because that would break the laws of physics and most likely your sense of morality. The reason we can do this in a game is because what you're killing isn't actually a person. It does not have dreams, goals, a family and friends. It is a program designed with a single goal in mind. We can attribute as many things as we want to that program. We can characterize it as a person with goals, views, family and friends but it never goes beyond the realm of the unreal. All attributes we humans give a program are not real, they're imagined. We use our imagination to give meaning to a useless piece of code.

In regards to your EDIT. Why NOT indulge in senseless violence when it does not hurt anyone? Like I've said before, we play games to escape reality. For a few minutes/hours/days you are not Joe, the office clerk. You're Alex Mercer, a supposedly mutated human with extremely powerful abilities. You said it yourself, violence is a part of life. It's in schools, it's on the streets and why shouldn't it be in video games? Why should we constrain our imagination due to morality when morality does not apply to the unreal? You're applying human characteristics to something that is not human and isn't even tangible. It doesn't even have free will. It's a piece of code programmed with a goal in mind.

 

[MazzaTheFirst]

I was going to agree with you overall when reading, but when you mentioned that you are glad 18+ games are banned then I got a bit of a frown.

I am not saying I demand my bloody games so I can slaughter innocents, in fact some of my favourite games are things like Doom, shooting daemons from hell, and Black and White, looking after my little towns making sure they have their needs. But when you say you support the people who can press their opinions onto other people that kinda rattles my cage. Fair enough if you don't want to be further involved with a violent game, I can agree that imagining the people you harm are actual loved ones can be a bit disheartening. But when you force this onto other people who can distinguish a game from reality that is too far.

I can play games and be fine with killing innocents, I know they are scripted entities that will dissolve the second I leave the screen, or quit the game. These bits of data do not have full lives. I don't feel disgusted when I close a word document, it is the same process. You are ending a piece of data from currently running.

Games just give it a more literal visualization. The difference is I know intellectually and emotionally that this is bits of data stringed together. Similar to reading a book. When I read a fictional story and character has a troubling past, friends killed, village destroyed, contact with mafia or hitman etc etc. I can tell that it is suppose to tug at me emotionally but I can also tell it isn't real. Now if it was a news report it is slightly different. But as I have stated, I know intellectually the difference from fiction and reality.

But to my main point. Again, fair game if you don't want to expose yourself or your children or your friends to this kind of media. But if you ever dare try to impose your view onto other people you can bet I will be there to fight back. I can not stand in any shape, way or form censorship, especially against a type of media that is fictional. Snuff films I can understand. A game where pixels and sprites have the possibility to be harmed I can not.

Overall: No, I do not think the current state is morally wrong. People are genuinely smart enough to distinguish reality from fiction. But it is fine if people don't want to fully participate in those types of media. No one if forcing them to. But if you force other people to not be involved, that is just despicable and selfish. Censorship is ethically wrong.

 

[haddaway234]

As long as you understand the difference, I don't see the problem. You are not hacking up a person with a family. You are destroying a game designers creation made out of 1s and 0s. The excessive blood and dismemberment is simply an Amy of Darkness pit scene style fun time.

Also, in the words of a great villain, what is innocent? Is it because you never killed anyone? Is it because they never harmed you? Where do you draw the line between necessary collateral damage and killing innocents?

What villain said that? Because thats actually pretty true.

I don't remember exactly, but I think it was Heath Ledger as the Joker in The Dark Knight. I think the actual quote was something like "No one is innocent. Given the chance, these people will eat each other." Still good though.

Meh, I like your version better, gonna keep that saved somewhere for later.

 

[Merkavar]

obvious troll is obvious?

looks to me like your to sensetive and/or are not mature enough and shouldnt have been playing the game in the first place. im not talking about age here im talking about maturity and being able to recognise that it is just a game (i know you mention this line of arguement). for me there is so much i would do in game that in real life i wouldnt consider doing.

And on the whole r18 games being banned, to me its not so much about preserving taste and conservatism, its about someone else controling what im able to do in my free time as an adult in this country. the rating system is there to advise people of the content. so as an adult i am allowed to watch 18+ movies but im only allowed to play m15 games that are also played by people much younger. how many here have been owned by a 10 year old in MW2?

i think that games and movie and every other developer is going to make things for where the money is and at the moment the money is in blood and gore and if enough people change their tastes these developers will move onto other things. so people should be free to make and use what they want as long as its not harming others.

its seems to boil down to freedom

 

[Merkavar]

double post

 

[Nieroshai]

Now tell me this: say you managed to get super powers. You spent hours on this bloody murder game, hacking people to bits with your talons, relishing in the score and happy that their deaths made you stronger. Yet you now have powers. In the real world, would you go out on a killing spree? No, because you deep down know the difference between a cardboard cutout of a woman and a real human being. Video game characters aren't human, nor are they animals or even plants. They are computer code and light. You do nothing immoral by slaying them, unless tearing a drawing in half is equally bad. As for affecting the mind, I personally have never been affected. I am a happy, loving person. But I play some pretty graphic games. I go in knowing I'm hurting no one, and am not even intending to. I know I'm simply playing cops and robbers or dungeons and dragons, but with added realism. I don't let pixels rule my reality.

 

[MrNickster]

You're MEANT to go apeshit and start hacking up anyone you can find in Prototype! It's a sandbox game and you're a crazy mutant who can morph their limbs into various sharp objects intended for mutilating people. If you dislike that concept, then don't play the thing. What you may find disgusting and totally unneccessary, others may find hilarious and over-the-top.

'Civilised western society'? 'Conserving taste and consveratism'? Jack and Michael are censorship Nazi's who think all games with Prototypes content are aimed at 11 year olds, Jack told all gamers to got to hell and you're on THEIR side?!

Who quashed someones rare gem of an idea that's beautiful and why are you being so arty and pretentious about it?

 

[Nieroshai]

A couple of hours later though I was running through a crowded street with my claws out. I turned to look at something, and as I did I accidentally hit the mouse button, and I hacked a girl in half. I stood there and looked at her dead face and mutilated body. This was meant to represent a person who lived and breathed, had a loving family, partner and maybe even children. She had hopes and dreams. Now she was gone. I was horrified at what I had done.

I turned off the game, took out the disk, put it in a drawer and I haven't played it since.

You murderer.


Now after reading that last line, go ahead and think about how ridiculous it is. I won't get into detail (because i'd end up writing a wall of text), but suffice to say that brutally murdering pixels on your screen shouldn't be taken as a moral implication no matter what those pixels represent.
And yes, you are overly sensitive.

And you also entombed an entire civilization inside your drawer so they wouldn't have to die.