Murdering of innocents in video games (Morality topic, nothing to do with gaming)

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Nieroshai

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MrNickster said:
You're MEANT to go apeshit and start hacking up anyone you can find in Prototype! It's a sandbox game and you're a crazy mutant who can morph their limbs into various sharp objects intended for mutilating people. If you dislike that concept, then don't play the thing. What you may find disgusting and totally unneccessary, others may find hilarious and over-the-top.

'Civilised western society'? 'Conserving taste and consveratism'? Jack and Michael are censorship Nazi's who think all games with Prototypes content are aimed at 11 year olds, Jack told all gamers to got to hell and you're on THEIR side?!

Who quashed someones rare gem of an idea that's beautiful and why are you being so arty and pretentious about it?
Quoting for truth!

Seriously, games have ratings for a reason, and warn you about their content. Most kids who play these games didnt just go buy it, their parents didn't bother reading the clear warnings on the back of the box. 11 year olds technically aren't even supposed to play Halo, and that game is TAME.
 

default

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Nieroshai said:
poiumty said:
A couple of hours later though I was running through a crowded street with my claws out. I turned to look at something, and as I did I accidentally hit the mouse button, and I hacked a girl in half. I stood there and looked at her dead face and mutilated body. This was meant to represent a person who lived and breathed, had a loving family, partner and maybe even children. She had hopes and dreams. Now she was gone. I was horrified at what I had done.

I turned off the game, took out the disk, put it in a drawer and I haven't played it since.
You murderer.


Now after reading that last line, go ahead and think about how ridiculous it is. I won't get into detail (because i'd end up writing a wall of text), but suffice to say that brutally murdering pixels on your screen shouldn't be taken as a moral implication no matter what those pixels represent.
And yes, you are overly sensitive.
And you also entombed an entire civilization inside your drawer so they wouldn't have to die.
Awww, too late. I couldn't resist, and I had to play it again. CURSE ME, I MADE THEM SUFFER.

Now it's YOU guys who are reading too much into this! I'm not some emotionally unstable retard who can't tell the difference between a game and reality, I was just expressing discomfort that there are simulations where you can go on extremely gory murderous rampages of innocents and no one bats an eyelid!
 

Nieroshai

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Digi7 said:
Nieroshai said:
poiumty said:
A couple of hours later though I was running through a crowded street with my claws out. I turned to look at something, and as I did I accidentally hit the mouse button, and I hacked a girl in half. I stood there and looked at her dead face and mutilated body. This was meant to represent a person who lived and breathed, had a loving family, partner and maybe even children. She had hopes and dreams. Now she was gone. I was horrified at what I had done.

I turned off the game, took out the disk, put it in a drawer and I haven't played it since.
You murderer.


Now after reading that last line, go ahead and think about how ridiculous it is. I won't get into detail (because i'd end up writing a wall of text), but suffice to say that brutally murdering pixels on your screen shouldn't be taken as a moral implication no matter what those pixels represent.
And yes, you are overly sensitive.
And you also entombed an entire civilization inside your drawer so they wouldn't have to die.
Awww, too late. I couldn't resist, and I had to play it again. CURSE ME, I MADE THEM SUFFER.

Now it's YOU guys who are reading too much into this! I'm not some emotionally unstable retard who can't tell the difference between a game and reality, I was just expressing discomfort that there are simulations where you can go on extremely gory murderous rampages of innocents and no one bats an eyelid!
Read your VERY LAST sentence and see why we think this is stupid. You are comparing a game to genuine homicidal mania, and I don't take well to that. I'm sorry for your feelings, but the rest of us know what isn't real.
 

default

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Nieroshai said:
Digi7 said:
Nieroshai said:
poiumty said:
A couple of hours later though I was running through a crowded street with my claws out. I turned to look at something, and as I did I accidentally hit the mouse button, and I hacked a girl in half. I stood there and looked at her dead face and mutilated body. This was meant to represent a person who lived and breathed, had a loving family, partner and maybe even children. She had hopes and dreams. Now she was gone. I was horrified at what I had done.

I turned off the game, took out the disk, put it in a drawer and I haven't played it since.
You murderer.


Now after reading that last line, go ahead and think about how ridiculous it is. I won't get into detail (because i'd end up writing a wall of text), but suffice to say that brutally murdering pixels on your screen shouldn't be taken as a moral implication no matter what those pixels represent.
And yes, you are overly sensitive.
And you also entombed an entire civilization inside your drawer so they wouldn't have to die.
Awww, too late. I couldn't resist, and I had to play it again. CURSE ME, I MADE THEM SUFFER.

Now it's YOU guys who are reading too much into this! I'm not some emotionally unstable retard who can't tell the difference between a game and reality, I was just expressing discomfort that there are simulations where you can go on extremely gory murderous rampages of innocents and no one bats an eyelid!
Read your VERY LAST sentence and see why we think this is stupid. You are comparing a game to genuine homicidal mania, and I don't take well to that. I'm sorry for your feelings, but the rest of us know what isn't real.
Yeah, go back and read properly next time. I clearly said 'simulation'. That's what 'games' are.

Fuck it, I don't even play or like games that much. Why am I arguing this point?
 

MrNickster

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I was playing New Super Mario Bros. and I was in a castle stage, going on to face Bowser Jr. I ran and stomped on a Koopa, who quickly retracted into his shell to avoid being hurt by my plumbers feet, but I was still holding down the run button and I picked up the Koopa's shell. I released the button and Mario threw the Koopa shell in a straight line-right into a pit of lava.

I was shocked. I started shaking. I had murdered an animal, throwing him to burn alive in a pit of lava. In all the other levels up till now, I had simply jumped over my enemies, but now I had done the unthinkable. I had killed an innocent creature, something with hopes and aspirations. Snuffed out by me.

I threw my DS to the ground in horror, smashing it. The fact that this kind of disgusting violence is targeted at chidren made me more outraged and horrified then I had ever been in my entire life. Ban these sick video games, they are nothing but mindless slaughter.

DO YOU SEE HOW IDIOTIC THAT IS!?
 

Blunderman

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Jun 24, 2009
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There's arguably only one relevant difference between murder in reality and murder in simulations.

When you kill someone in a video game, nothing happens.
When you kill someone in real life, someone dies.
 

Merkavar

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Aug 21, 2010
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Digi7 said:
Nieroshai said:
Digi7 said:
Nieroshai said:
poiumty said:
A couple of hours later though I was running through a crowded street with my claws out. I turned to look at something, and as I did I accidentally hit the mouse button, and I hacked a girl in half. I stood there and looked at her dead face and mutilated body. This was meant to represent a person who lived and breathed, had a loving family, partner and maybe even children. She had hopes and dreams. Now she was gone. I was horrified at what I had done.

I turned off the game, took out the disk, put it in a drawer and I haven't played it since.
You murderer.


Now after reading that last line, go ahead and think about how ridiculous it is. I won't get into detail (because i'd end up writing a wall of text), but suffice to say that brutally murdering pixels on your screen shouldn't be taken as a moral implication no matter what those pixels represent.
And yes, you are overly sensitive.
And you also entombed an entire civilization inside your drawer so they wouldn't have to die.
Awww, too late. I couldn't resist, and I had to play it again. CURSE ME, I MADE THEM SUFFER.

Now it's YOU guys who are reading too much into this! I'm not some emotionally unstable retard who can't tell the difference between a game and reality, I was just expressing discomfort that there are simulations where you can go on extremely gory murderous rampages of innocents and no one bats an eyelid!
Read your VERY LAST sentence and see why we think this is stupid. You are comparing a game to genuine homicidal mania, and I don't take well to that. I'm sorry for your feelings, but the rest of us know what isn't real.
Yeah, go back and read properly next time. I clearly said 'simulation'. That's what 'games' are.

Fuck it, I don't even play or like games that much. Why am I arguing this point?
murderous rampages of innocents. i didnt think pixels could be innocent or guilty or have anything at all like that. so why would anyone bat an eye about some pixels?
 

Merkavar

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Aug 21, 2010
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i just find it odd that any one that has a stable mental state can be affected by murdering pixels. and after reading some of the things you said im starting to think you might be crazy to some degree. you killed a pixel women who you then created a whole life and back story involving possible children and a boyfriend, and this caused some sort of emotion in you that caused you to ejected the game and put it in a drawn.

coo f***ing coo coo

can i say f*** on this site?
 

archvile93

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Digi7 said:
archvile93 said:
Digi7 said:
You're way too sensitive. Also if we want to play games that have more violence than your comfortable with, what right do you or the government have in stopping me so long as no one is being killed, by which I mean I could see your argument if somebody was going to a roman style gladiator match instead of playing a game. If you can't handle it that's fine, but don't tell me I can't handle it and take it away from me. Besides, while playing aggressive games does stimulate aggression, there is no evidence that it will cause you to go from sane and normal one minute to heartless killer the next. Maybe you'll get angry at somebody more easily but I doubt you'll stab them, and if you do you probably were unstable to begin with. You are also wrong, studies show that just witnessing violence (Say Iron man beating the crap out of some bad guys) also stimulates aggressive responses even if you did not interact with it.

An analagy: how would you like it if I said your art was innappropriate and had the government come in and burn it so no one would see it and get bad ideas?

Edit: I probably shouldn't have quoted you OP, for that I apoligize. However this is an important topic to me and I wanted to be sure you actually read what I have to say.
Thankyou, I did read it.

I never wanted to take that experience away from you or anyone, mate. You have the God-given right to do whatever the hell you like on this earth. I'm not going to labour my point any more, though. You can watch, play, read, create, say or do whatever you want.

Ahh, I loved that Iron Man scene. Great hate-mongering. Didn't you feel so satisfied when he shot all the terrorists in the face after what they did? Isn't storytelling powerful? That is related to the points I'm making.
Yes, yes I did, which proves you don't have to interact with violence to be affected by it. Just one more question. How can you claim not to want to take away certain games so no one can view them (or at least remove all semblence of violence from them) when you also claim to support Jack Thomphson and Michael Atkinson when clearly their overall goal is just that?
 

Moosh50

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Digi7 said:
Moosh50 said:
So it was horrible when you accidently killed a young girl, but not when you slaughtered/watched Alex slaughter several soldiers, who were all hardworking men trying to provide for their families? So it's ok to kill 'bad people' in games but when you sniff an 'innocent' suddenly it gets too violent and scary and boo-hoo there's a boogeyman under the bed.

Try the game again after your balls drop.
Just take off your arrogant douchebag nerd hat for a second and have a read of the points I'm making.

Yes, I felt the same for the police officers and soldiers I killed, but they were a necessary loss. I know and accept that, it's part of the story and the experience. They knew what they were getting into.

But it is not right to murder innocent bystanders just for fun, EVEN IN A GAME.

Just think how the hell would you feel if some dude jumped from the sky and ripped your head off coz he needed some health?
"They knew what they were getting into."
Soo, when a a policeman/soldier gets killed on line if duty it was his fault? Because, you know, he knew what he was getting in to.

Don't worry. You're not over sensitive, you're just a hypocrite.
 

ThePurpleStuff

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I just want to say, that anybody with horrific and violent urges out there, kill millions of virtual chunks of code in a video game to blow off some steam than kill millions of flesh and blood people in real life. Keep that shit off the streets, you're destroying innocent life out there, video games help you to escape from reality so use them.

Killing a virtual human being is no different than the millions of demons, monsters and other various living things in all the games I have played through my time as a gamer. There are games out there where the only purpose is to kill everything in sight to reach your goals, do I feel bad and put the game in time-out? No, I had the choice to put it in my game system so I'm gonna play it, that's the whole point games exist. I'm not saying your views are wrong or idiotic at all, we're all different.

Though, I am tired of war games, never played one before, but I wish they would stop, all the millions of soldiers who fought in actual wars roll around in their graves whenever someone buys another of those games.
 

SL33TBL1ND

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Y'see, I don't care about people. So it doesn't bother me at all. Family and friends sure. But random people off the street I couldn't give a shit about.
 

the Dept of Science

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I sortof agree with this guy, even though I've never been particularly offended by violence in videogames.

Put it this way, if we make a comparison with other media, then gaming does not come out favourably. Imagine a book which had about 10 pages of set up, 150 pages of the protagonist shooting random people (your average game has a body count in the 100s at least) and then 10 pages of conclusion. Firstly, it would be dismissed as an unbeleivably trashy and low brow fiction, secondly, I wouldn't want to be in the same room with anyone that had read it more than once. Furthermore, even in particularly violent books, the body count is rarely more than about 10, and each one generally has a good reason for it. Considering this, is anyone surprised that the Jack Thompsons of this world look at gaming and see that it might not be entirely wholesome? Heck, he may even be right.* There is plenty of proof that a great game can be made with little to no violence.

*I disagree that playing games causes violence, but I think it would be pretty hard to deny that your average game contains a level of violence that would be shocking in a film or book, even nowadays.
 

captainwolfos

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Eh, I kill things in video games, unless I have a genuine reason not to. Like if they were needed for the plot or something. Clicking a mouse to kill someone is as much a death simulator as is spitballing someone. [small]Bad analogy, but I can't think of anything better right now.[/small]

Games are a form of escapism. Of course you wouldn't kill someone in real life, that sort of thing actually has consquences. But tell me you don't kill people in your mind when they really get on your nerves or something. If my imagination was even remotely related to my actions, my sisters would be long since six feet under, and I'd have probably gotten myself a nice ol' death sentence XD
It's the same basic principle. There's nothing immoral about it in my mind. Being a douchebag on games is fun, but do so in real life having no friends and no job is not quite as fun.
 

Vrach

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DarthFennec said:
Most of the things I do in games, I wouldn't think of doing irl. It's just a game, the girl you just sliced open is just a mesh with a blood texture that just experienced a slay event, you didn't actually kill a real person though. You know how sometimes it's fun to play paintball against your friends, but you would never go out and shoot at each other with real guns? That's a lot like what this is. There is an infinite difference between playing a game and doing any of that in real life, and I think that's something that a lot of the anti-gaming community doesn't understand. Games, like movies, are built to be an escape from reality, and doing morally questionable things in a game is always going to lower your chances of doing it in reality, if you had any chances of that in the first place. That's what I think.
^Pretty much this. If you think about the stuff in the game like real people, yeah it can feel a little fucked up (and I have felt this at times, though rarely), but it's just a game. It's no different than when I was 7-8 years old, playing with my Legos and envisioning a battle between crusaders and pirates. In my mind, they were also dying, the blade stabbed underneath their armpits. But it's not a real death and it doesn't carry the same consequences or the morality.

I do apply morality in games where necessary though. I usually go for the good guy route in RPGs though I sometimes enjoy the bad guy route as well, even more at times (but those are roleplaying, while most of the stuff "I'd do" is the goody two shoes approach). It's not because I wanna go around killing people, it's because I wanna go around killing computer characters.

Try to apply the same morality to other things in life and you'll find a lot of controversy as well. Let's take the easiest/most popular route - eating meat. Do you think about the way the animal was slaughtered, force-fed and similar stuff every time you take a bite of something?

Let's apply it to insects. You know when you've got that annoying mosquito flying around and you smash it with your hands? Do you realise how violent that is if you apply the same morality you would for killing humans, or if you're heavily into animal protection, non-insect animals? I mean it's the equivalent of throwing a car onto someone from the third floor and watching their brains and organs splash across the pavement, yet we feel nothing (most of us anyway) just because something is small and therefore somehow 'insignificant'.

Simulation of violence is not like violence. It's not even like thinking about violence. Look at martial arts practitioners. Most of them are actually famous for their aversion to violence, even though they practice 'violent acts' all the time - and this is practicing that stuff in reality. They're not living out perverted imaginations of kicking/punching the life out of someone every time they train, they do it for entirely different reasons.

Problem with people who think games (and a lot of other things for that matter) are disgusting/all about violence/etc. is that their view on the matter is VERY shallow. Mind you, you can almost always go deeper into it and yes, on some level, there is a part that's about violence. But that part is not at all greater than a lot of other activities which are perfectly socially acceptable and not commonly linked to any violent activities.
 

Verlander

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the Dept of Science said:
I sortof agree with this guy, even though I've never been particularly offended by violence in videogames.

Put it this way, if we make a comparison with other media, then gaming does not come out favourably. Imagine a book which had about 10 pages of set up, 150 pages of the protagonist shooting random people (your average game has a body count in the 100s at least) and then 10 pages of conclusion. Firstly, it would be dismissed as an unbeleivably trashy and low brow fiction, secondly, I wouldn't want to be in the same room with anyone that had read it more than once. Furthermore, even in particularly violent books, the body count is rarely more than about 10, and each one generally has a good reason for it. Considering this, is anyone surprised that the Jack Thompsons of this world look at gaming and see that it might not be entirely wholesome? Heck, he may even be right.* There is plenty of proof that a great game can be made with little to no violence.

*I disagree that playing games causes violence, but I think it would be pretty hard to deny that your average game contains a level of violence that would be shocking in a film or book, even nowadays.
Not at all, in fact there are films and books that are much worse than computer games. Just games are now more mainstream than other "R" rated media, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist or has a massive fanbase.

Digi7 said:
I don't think that it's oversensitivity on your part, I think that maybe it's the concept that people may find this enjoyable. Very few games market themselves on "innocent slaughter" alone. Other games include it as an option, which is hardly surprising when people are pushing for "realism" in games more and more. In theory, you can just walk out the house and kill people in real life. The fact that this is a touching and personal subject many helps with the immersive experience.

I haven't played Prototype, but in MW2 the section isn't pleasant. It's in a familiar location to many, and can be distressing. It's a war game based on terrorism, and instead of burying heads in the sand, the creators tackled a darker element of it. If it really offends you, you don't HAVE to shoot anybody. The first time round, I wasn't sure if I was supposed to, so I didn't.

There are lots of people on here saying "they're only games", which is rubbish. Yes that is their primary function, but they also teach about history or current events, and tell stories, and have thought provoking morality. It's the fact that many people think "they're only games" that gets MoH banned because there are Taliban in it, without even thinking that there may be a lesson taught/learned, a self reflective moral question raised. Without challenging dominant ideology, you cannot make a safe judgement of your own, which is the only way that people can find peace with themselves - we aren't robots to be told what to do.

And like another guy said, it's better than gladiator fights
 

Cazza

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I tried to play through GTA SA without killing anyone I didn't need to. Abut half way through a stupid com jumps in front of my car during a very hard mission. Right then I thought "These are not people. They are poorly scripted people" and finshed the game without caring who I killed.

In real life the outcome would be very differnt.
 

FallenJellyDoughnut

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I just slaughtered and pillaged 12 villages in Mount and Blade (which is a very profitable) and as I did it I wondered "Am I a bad person for doing this?"