Murders' of Goth have their sentences reduced, WTF!?

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mike1921

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Oct 17, 2008
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cainx10a said:
These are the type of morons that should be given the death penalty. And I still wonder why people find capital punishment to be unethical and barbaric. To think that these monsters would be released in society again.
Agreed. the DP is more ethical than most prisons.
 

stevetastic

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Oct 22, 2008
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beddo said:
Why not use the terrorist legislation on these terrorists? These people that stalk the parks, that will stab or shoot you on the bus or in the pub because randomly or because you stand up to their appauling behaviour? These people terrorise us daily and walk around knowing there's nothing we can do about it. Not only becuase they don't get punished but becuase if you win a fight against them you'll be the one locked up.

The UK is a mess, in my opinion it has gotten worse over the last decade, no wonder so many people want out.
because they weren't brown so they cant be terrorists, *sarcasm
 

kommando367

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Oct 9, 2008
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unless there is some kind of mandatory "be a dickhead to anyone who has an opinion rule" on these forums i suggest you back off my posts poleboy
 

kommando367

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just to clarify from my previous post if someone kills a goth normal people may be next due to the possible unstableness so i too think they should have got a life sentence
 

Seann

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Jun 21, 2008
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Wow. I heard about this earlier, and like most of these disgusting stories just made me hate humanity a little more. It may have made me a tad more bitter too. Now that I've read into it, it almost made me cry. I mean I've resaerched other murders before but this one really got to me. Maybe because i recently met a goth girl and shes actually a really nice person. She is definitly among one of the collest people i know. What kind of life did these teenagers have where they would beat a goth to the point of death? And here i was thinking that people were actually making progress in social acceptance. When is the last time a group of goths beat a jock to death? It's been a while I bet. It always seems to be the jocks dosen't it? I'm probably coming off a little evangelistic, but I'm willing to take that risk. Having them jailed dosen't really do it for me. I'm not suggesting the death penalty hhowever thats almost as bad. As long as they realise what they.ve done that would be good for me. I know I woulden't be able to live with that on MY conciense. Sorry for the rant but if you coulden't tell, I'm fairly passionate about equality.
 

Drift-Bus

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TheDean said:
beddo said:
Today I came across this story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/7696709.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/oct/29/goth-murderer-sentence-appeal

I'm not a goth and don't even really know many. However, I am a human! Their sentences were only reduced by nine months and some of the reduction requests were denied but seriously WTF!?

The principle alone is outrageous, if the judges agreed that the crimes were particularly horrific then WHY did they reduce the sentences of these criminals!?

Furthermore, why are their sentences so short in the first place!? These people can be out by the time they are in their early 30s when they will be able to have a normal life for another 50 or so years. They will be able to have families and carry on, what does this girl's family get!? They have to live with the loss of their daughter.

I feel justified in saying that justice has not been done in this case.

The UK legal system is a mess with systematic weaknesses. Sentences are short, jails are full, judges have their hands tied, politicians are unwilling to act. The system is corrupt, when officers commit crimes they cover it up, they frame people and torture them (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/northamptonshire/7595860.stm) without being punished by law. Justice is almost dead in the UK.

I am going to try and contact the court of appeals or CPS to complain over this matter. I will also contact my MP and try to get a letter to Mr.Brown the Prime Minister for an explanation of his thoughts.

Please let me know your thoughts on the issue.
they'll be out when they're 30? How old are they now?If they are kids, then, despite killing goths being terribe (and i don't get why people would target goths anyway)they are kids-- when they are 30 they are different people, they should be allowed to have a life.

Unfortunatly Dean (yet again), your wrong again (statisically at least). Most people leave prison better educated about a life in crime. Reports show that the younger the person sentenced, the worse crimes they will commit on the outside. You'd know that if you backed up your statements with a little research.

And whether they went to jail or not, just look at them. They are the type of people that join bikie gangs or white power groups. uneducated and unwilling to change, they are proud of their stupidity. They don't think they did anything wrong, and when they grow up they will be the old man in a pub picking fights who should know better.

To quote a man that had the right idea
- "Wipe them out. All of them."


I've always wanted to start a vigilante group, to bring about Yamantake-esque judgment. Or failing that, when I win the lotto, I will hire mecenaries to kill this c***s, along with every other poo stain who commits these acts
 

dalek sec

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Jul 20, 2008
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Well my faith in mankind just dropped a few more points after reading all about this. Can anyone who lives in the UK tell me how these flithy little creatures manage to keep reproducing and manage to keep living? You think with all the drugs, drinking and getting into fights that they can't win you think it would help weed these little things out of the gene pool.
 

Sylocat

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Nov 13, 2007
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TheDean said:
Come on, i know thee victims weren't annoyign them in this instance, but im just saying--just becase they kiled someone and lughed now, that doesn't mean they won't regret it later. They will live with that regret- and that is punsihment enough. And so they laughed--sometimes that's the only way people have of dealing with things.
And i was just saying, if you killed someone you hated, out of anger, you shouldn't be accountable for that for the rest of your life. don't get me wrong, i hate what they did and i hate that they targeted goths.
You reap what you sow, TheDean. They are old enough to know better. So they may regret it later (they won't, people like this never do, but whatever), it won't change what they did. They didn't "kill someone they hated out of anger." They killed a complete stranger, who had not done anything at all to piss them off, out of malice, out of cold-blooded malice. And they laughed about it. And no, laughing is NOT a "way to deal with" having committed murder. Laughing is a sick, awful thing to do.
We owe it to the family of the deceased to put these men away. We owe it to the public to keep them away from even MORE innocent people. We owe it to all the people out there to show that you can't get away with this shit. We owe it to everyone to stop people like this from doing more damage than they've already done.
Should all crimes go unpunished just because the person who committed them regrets it?
 

Avatar Roku

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Wow, never realized goths have it so bad, probably because I've yet to actually meet one. But I guess any group outside of the mainstream is going to be a bit ostracized. I get it a bit for being Jewish, but Judaism is still fairly mainstream, just not to the extent Christianity is. Either way, human nature, I guess. Still, this is way past the point of "Too much."
 

TheDean

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gibboss28 said:
TheDean said:
gibboss28 said:
TheDean said:
gibboss28 said:
TheDean said:
gibboss28 said:
TheDean said:
gibboss28 said:
TheDean said:
gibboss28 said:
TheDean said:
they'll be out when they're 30? How old are they now?If they are kids, then, despite killing goths being terribe (and i don't get why people would target goths anyway)they are kids-- when they are 30 they are different people, they should be allowed to have a life.
They took away one life and ruined another under the justification of 'they looked different' people like that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near anyone else let alone the privilege to breathe.
I hate the "you look different" mindset, but that doesn't mean they should not be allowed to live. THat is unfair. No matter what they did.
THEY KILLED SOMEONE FOR NO GOOD REASON WHAT SO GOD DAMNED EVER Sorry to put this in caps and bold but jesus christ.

Going by your logic i could kill someone just to see what the hell its like and to put me away for life would be 'unfair' sorry but no.
WOAH! SLow down. I never even suggested that. I'm just saying you can't say they're not allowed to breathe. So they did a bad thing. That doesn't make thwm bad people. It also doens't mean we should remove them from socirty.
No, you can't go around killing people. But imagine this: someone really really annoys you. They make you life hell--you get angry, lash out and kill them. oh noes. now you have to spend the rest of your life in jail. Think about how miserable you would be. They should be put in gaol, but not forever.
Murdering someone for no better reason than they look different and showing little to no remorse about doing so, does make them a bad person. There is no if's and no buts about that what so ever.

I can see where your coming from and I do agree I would be miserable. But on the other hand i killed someone because they annoyed me. I would expect to be put away for life.

And the way i see it if you capable of murdering someone in cold blood for an absolutely pathetic reason such as this then you've just lost your human rights by taking away someone elses.
Of course it makes them bad now, but they won't always be like that. And their reasons for what they did certainbly were pathetic. But they will have to live with that forever. And no, no one should EVER lsoe human rights- since they are human. No one should have the rght to take tour rights away. And i know that the victim had the right to live and it was taken away, and that's why the kilers should be punished for a few years. But i just don't think i would like to oive a miserable life in jail because of something i did that i regret 60 years ago.
Your putting it like they stole something of minor value and are suffering a draconian sentence for it. They took away someone's right to exist without a care in the world and your suggesting that people should care about their rights?

No. You are wrong. I know its your opinion but your still wrong.
yes they took away someone's right to exist, but that dioesn't mean we should take away theirs. what gives us the right?
And i know what they did is really really bad, and i hate them for it believe me, but they WILL feel remore oen day. And they should still have rights. always.
Yes they took away soemone's right to exist, but by imprisoning them for 60 years we are essentially doing the same thing to them. Does that bring the victim back? no. (And i'm sure that right now she doesn't want to be back--because she's dead. i'm just sayin').
i feel sorry for the victim, but doing the same to these people who kiled her won't solve anything. It's like the old two wrongs don't make a right thing.
And i think we really should put more time into preventing rime and les into deling with things that have already happened and s we can do nothing about.
After this point unless you actually come up with a different argument and stop going in circles with what you are saying i'm not going to be replying.

No it doesnt bring the person back but its a thing called Justice.

No it wont do anything apart from let the family's and friends of the victims know that the offenders are paying for what they have done.

All that's been done is that they have been given a slap on the wrist and thats just a joke.

Putting them away for 60 years is saying 'You've fucked up big time and this is your punishment' which is god damned fair. They were 16, they were old enough to know the difference between right and wrong.

They didn't feel remorse when they did it, they didn't hand themselves in after what they'd done and said 'i've killed someone' So why should anyone give a fuck about if they feel remorse a few years down the line? Too little too god damned late. You reap what you sew.

And this is the end of the argument whether you like it to be or not cause I'm sick of this already -.-
wow. even if you disagree with me i at least thought you had the intelligence to see where i'm coming from.
You said yourself they are 16. So am i. I don't want to be punished for things i do now in 60 years time. Yes they know the difference between right and wrong- but doesn't everyone make mistakes and do smoething they regret when they're young? I'm not saying they ahould get a slap on thr wrist. They must be punsihed indeed. But not for 60 years. Jail 'em for a few years until they learn their lesson. THat wikll give them enough time to realise what they did was wrong, and if they do it again they'll have to suffer jail again. Keeping them in ther for all their lives doesn't give them the chance to prove they have changed.
I'm sorry... You have the nerve to insult my intelligence? OK I'm going to spell this out for you because you seem to not understand what I am saying.

They know the difference between right and wrong? No. They. Don't. If they did They wouldn't have done it

And again you saying it like they've done something that is easily forgivable. They took away a life under the grounds 'they look different'

oh i see...they killed someone and severely hurt another because 'they look different' Yeah forgive and forget eh?

No. Just god damned NO

Yes i've made mistakes in my past But none of them involve murder.

And why the hell should they have a chance to prove they've changed. Unless they can perform a resurrection on the victim and she says 'its OK I forgive them it was all in good fun' No. Fuck That.

Its people like you that allow wastes of DNA like that to ruin lives. Not everyone deserves forgiveness especially if they can so easily take away life for an absolutely pathetic and monstrous reason.
WOW! Seriously man, EVERYONE deserves a second chance. A chance to prove they've changed. And thre is no reason to believe these people will ever kill again. Punish them yes of course, and then let them prove themselves--otherwise there is no point in the punishment.
 

Fronken

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May 10, 2008
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cant say i like Goth people, but this is just fucked up, my oppinions aside, their legal rights should be NO different from other people, color, religion, lifestyle should make NO difference whatsoever when it comes to Justice, but this seems to be the trend, leaders become corrupt, politicians bullshit the public and steal money from the system, everyday people get trampled by a fucked up system that does NOT work.

What we should do is start using the old Eye For An Eye rule again, that way we could make our mess of a race actually work together with each other, if someone stomps a goth kid to death, they get stomped to death, simple as that.
 

TheDean

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Sep 12, 2008
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Drift-Bus said:
TheDean said:
beddo said:
Today I came across this story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/7696709.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/oct/29/goth-murderer-sentence-appeal

I'm not a goth and don't even really know many. However, I am a human! Their sentences were only reduced by nine months and some of the reduction requests were denied but seriously WTF!?

The principle alone is outrageous, if the judges agreed that the crimes were particularly horrific then WHY did they reduce the sentences of these criminals!?

Furthermore, why are their sentences so short in the first place!? These people can be out by the time they are in their early 30s when they will be able to have a normal life for another 50 or so years. They will be able to have families and carry on, what does this girl's family get!? They have to live with the loss of their daughter.

I feel justified in saying that justice has not been done in this case.

The UK legal system is a mess with systematic weaknesses. Sentences are short, jails are full, judges have their hands tied, politicians are unwilling to act. The system is corrupt, when officers commit crimes they cover it up, they frame people and torture them (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/northamptonshire/7595860.stm) without being punished by law. Justice is almost dead in the UK.

I am going to try and contact the court of appeals or CPS to complain over this matter. I will also contact my MP and try to get a letter to Mr.Brown the Prime Minister for an explanation of his thoughts.

Please let me know your thoughts on the issue.
they'll be out when they're 30? How old are they now?If they are kids, then, despite killing goths being terribe (and i don't get why people would target goths anyway)they are kids-- when they are 30 they are different people, they should be allowed to have a life.

Unfortunatly Dean (yet again), your wrong again (statisically at least). Most people leave prison better educated about a life in crime. Reports show that the younger the person sentenced, the worse crimes they will commit on the outside. You'd know that if you backed up your statements with a little research.

And whether they went to jail or not, just look at them. They are the type of people that join bikie gangs or white power groups. uneducated and unwilling to change, they are proud of their stupidity. They don't think they did anything wrong, and when they grow up they will be the old man in a pub picking fights who should know better.

To quote a man that had the right idea
- "Wipe them out. All of them."


I've always wanted to start a vigilante group, to bring about Yamantake-esque judgment. Or failing that, when I win the lotto, I will hire mecenaries to kill this c***s, along with every other poo stain who commits these acts
You almost swayed me-but then you lost me at the end. We CANNOT go around killing these people that makes us no better than them!
As for jails- perhaps they oughtto educate prisoners about how it is not good to do these things. Teach them. And ok, maybe i was mistakenn- i was not aware that people coem out of jail worse than when they went in. THat defeats the purpose entirely.
Maybe i'm trying to live in a utopia.
 

TheDean

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Sep 12, 2008
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Sylocat said:
TheDean said:
Come on, i know thee victims weren't annoyign them in this instance, but im just saying--just becase they kiled someone and lughed now, that doesn't mean they won't regret it later. They will live with that regret- and that is punsihment enough. And so they laughed--sometimes that's the only way people have of dealing with things.
And i was just saying, if you killed someone you hated, out of anger, you shouldn't be accountable for that for the rest of your life. don't get me wrong, i hate what they did and i hate that they targeted goths.
You reap what you sow, TheDean. They are old enough to know better. So they may regret it later (they won't, people like this never do, but whatever), it won't change what they did. They didn't "kill someone they hated out of anger." They killed a complete stranger, who had not done anything at all to piss them off, out of malice, out of cold-blooded malice. And they laughed about it. And no, laughing is NOT a "way to deal with" having committed murder. Laughing is a sick, awful thing to do.
We owe it to the family of the deceased to put these men away. We owe it to the public to keep them away from even MORE innocent people. We owe it to all the people out there to show that you can't get away with this shit. We owe it to everyone to stop people like this from doing more damage than they've already done.
Should all crimes go unpunished just because the person who committed them regrets it?
ok ok. All this thread is doing is making absolutely everyone hate me. ENOUGH!
I really think people can change. THe whole point of prsons i think should be to explain to these people why what they did is wrong, make them feel remorse, and make sure they don't do it again.
as for the laughing, many young people deal with awkward things by laughing at it. I'm just sayin'.
 

cikame

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Jun 11, 2008
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The main thing i hate about prison sentencing is the term "life", he has been sentenced to "life" imprisonment, of which he will serve 16 years.............?
So, its not life, its 16 years, i'd expect someone to go to prison for 16 years if they kidnapped someone but let them go after a few days unharmed and also plead guilty.
I say a life for a life, if you kill someone you obviously don't want a life, and going to prison for even something like 70 years isn't going to change that, the only thing that has changed is you're now too old to even try and kill someone, so what are prison sentences for?
To teach someone a lesson?
To make them realise what they did was wrong?
They already KNOW it was wrong, THATS WHY THEY DID IT, because they don't CARE!
If your living a terrible life prison is not a bad place to live, its a care free haven, execution is the only thing that will deter people from killing and thats we need.
 

k3v1n

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Sep 7, 2008
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i'm so disgusted, I'm not even going to bother commenting, apart from that killers have the perfect right of getting their life taken off in the most gruesome way possible(and this is applied to rapists,but instead of killing them, sticking a BIG BIG rusty pole inside their anus until they beg for mercy,and if they do, cutting their balls off...no point in killing rapists, you have to humilate them for the rest of their miserable life, which is probably more satisfactory)
 

Samirat

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May 22, 2008
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TheDean said:
gibboss28 said:
TheDean said:
gibboss28 said:
TheDean said:
gibboss28 said:
TheDean said:
gibboss28 said:
TheDean said:
gibboss28 said:
TheDean said:
they'll be out when they're 30? How old are they now?If they are kids, then, despite killing goths being terribe (and i don't get why people would target goths anyway)they are kids-- when they are 30 they are different people, they should be allowed to have a life.
They took away one life and ruined another under the justification of 'they looked different' people like that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near anyone else let alone the privilege to breathe.
I hate the "you look different" mindset, but that doesn't mean they should not be allowed to live. THat is unfair. No matter what they did.
THEY KILLED SOMEONE FOR NO GOOD REASON WHAT SO GOD DAMNED EVER Sorry to put this in caps and bold but jesus christ.

Going by your logic i could kill someone just to see what the hell its like and to put me away for life would be 'unfair' sorry but no.
WOAH! SLow down. I never even suggested that. I'm just saying you can't say they're not allowed to breathe. So they did a bad thing. That doesn't make thwm bad people. It also doens't mean we should remove them from socirty.
No, you can't go around killing people. But imagine this: someone really really annoys you. They make you life hell--you get angry, lash out and kill them. oh noes. now you have to spend the rest of your life in jail. Think about how miserable you would be. They should be put in gaol, but not forever.
Murdering someone for no better reason than they look different and showing little to no remorse about doing so, does make them a bad person. There is no if's and no buts about that what so ever.

I can see where your coming from and I do agree I would be miserable. But on the other hand i killed someone because they annoyed me. I would expect to be put away for life.

And the way i see it if you capable of murdering someone in cold blood for an absolutely pathetic reason such as this then you've just lost your human rights by taking away someone elses.
Of course it makes them bad now, but they won't always be like that. And their reasons for what they did certainbly were pathetic. But they will have to live with that forever. And no, no one should EVER lsoe human rights- since they are human. No one should have the rght to take tour rights away. And i know that the victim had the right to live and it was taken away, and that's why the kilers should be punished for a few years. But i just don't think i would like to oive a miserable life in jail because of something i did that i regret 60 years ago.
Your putting it like they stole something of minor value and are suffering a draconian sentence for it. They took away someone's right to exist without a care in the world and your suggesting that people should care about their rights?

No. You are wrong. I know its your opinion but your still wrong.
yes they took away someone's right to exist, but that dioesn't mean we should take away theirs. what gives us the right?
And i know what they did is really really bad, and i hate them for it believe me, but they WILL feel remore oen day. And they should still have rights. always.
Yes they took away soemone's right to exist, but by imprisoning them for 60 years we are essentially doing the same thing to them. Does that bring the victim back? no. (And i'm sure that right now she doesn't want to be back--because she's dead. i'm just sayin').
i feel sorry for the victim, but doing the same to these people who kiled her won't solve anything. It's like the old two wrongs don't make a right thing.
And i think we really should put more time into preventing rime and les into deling with things that have already happened and s we can do nothing about.
After this point unless you actually come up with a different argument and stop going in circles with what you are saying i'm not going to be replying.

No it doesnt bring the person back but its a thing called Justice.

No it wont do anything apart from let the family's and friends of the victims know that the offenders are paying for what they have done.

All that's been done is that they have been given a slap on the wrist and thats just a joke.

Putting them away for 60 years is saying 'You've fucked up big time and this is your punishment' which is god damned fair. They were 16, they were old enough to know the difference between right and wrong.

They didn't feel remorse when they did it, they didn't hand themselves in after what they'd done and said 'i've killed someone' So why should anyone give a fuck about if they feel remorse a few years down the line? Too little too god damned late. You reap what you sew.

And this is the end of the argument whether you like it to be or not cause I'm sick of this already -.-
wow. even if you disagree with me i at least thought you had the intelligence to see where i'm coming from.
You said yourself they are 16. So am i. I don't want to be punished for things i do now in 60 years time. Yes they know the difference between right and wrong- but doesn't everyone make mistakes and do smoething they regret when they're young? I'm not saying they ahould get a slap on thr wrist. They must be punsihed indeed. But not for 60 years. Jail 'em for a few years until they learn their lesson. THat wikll give them enough time to realise what they did was wrong, and if they do it again they'll have to suffer jail again. Keeping them in ther for all their lives doesn't give them the chance to prove they have changed.
Good gods, man. This isn't larceny, vandalism, or auto theft.

This is murder. Quite frankly, a few years isn't enough to either punish them or rehabilitate them. While life in prison isn't a good option, giving them the same sentence that you might get for car theft, or serious vandalism, simply isn't just. What if somebody killed you, or one of your friends or family? Would you want them walking away in 6 years, as if it had never happened, quite possibly to repeat their crimes? You sympathize far too much with the criminal, or far too less with the victim.
 

Samurai Goomba

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Oct 7, 2008
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Samirat said:
TheDean said:
gibboss28 said:
TheDean said:
gibboss28 said:
TheDean said:
gibboss28 said:
TheDean said:
gibboss28 said:
TheDean said:
gibboss28 said:
TheDean said:
they'll be out when they're 30? How old are they now?If they are kids, then, despite killing goths being terribe (and i don't get why people would target goths anyway)they are kids-- when they are 30 they are different people, they should be allowed to have a life.
They took away one life and ruined another under the justification of 'they looked different' people like that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near anyone else let alone the privilege to breathe.
I hate the "you look different" mindset, but that doesn't mean they should not be allowed to live. THat is unfair. No matter what they did.
THEY KILLED SOMEONE FOR NO GOOD REASON WHAT SO GOD DAMNED EVER Sorry to put this in caps and bold but jesus christ.

Going by your logic i could kill someone just to see what the hell its like and to put me away for life would be 'unfair' sorry but no.
WOAH! SLow down. I never even suggested that. I'm just saying you can't say they're not allowed to breathe. So they did a bad thing. That doesn't make thwm bad people. It also doens't mean we should remove them from socirty.
No, you can't go around killing people. But imagine this: someone really really annoys you. They make you life hell--you get angry, lash out and kill them. oh noes. now you have to spend the rest of your life in jail. Think about how miserable you would be. They should be put in gaol, but not forever.
Murdering someone for no better reason than they look different and showing little to no remorse about doing so, does make them a bad person. There is no if's and no buts about that what so ever.

I can see where your coming from and I do agree I would be miserable. But on the other hand i killed someone because they annoyed me. I would expect to be put away for life.

And the way i see it if you capable of murdering someone in cold blood for an absolutely pathetic reason such as this then you've just lost your human rights by taking away someone elses.
Of course it makes them bad now, but they won't always be like that. And their reasons for what they did certainbly were pathetic. But they will have to live with that forever. And no, no one should EVER lsoe human rights- since they are human. No one should have the rght to take tour rights away. And i know that the victim had the right to live and it was taken away, and that's why the kilers should be punished for a few years. But i just don't think i would like to oive a miserable life in jail because of something i did that i regret 60 years ago.
Your putting it like they stole something of minor value and are suffering a draconian sentence for it. They took away someone's right to exist without a care in the world and your suggesting that people should care about their rights?

No. You are wrong. I know its your opinion but your still wrong.
yes they took away someone's right to exist, but that dioesn't mean we should take away theirs. what gives us the right?
And i know what they did is really really bad, and i hate them for it believe me, but they WILL feel remore oen day. And they should still have rights. always.
Yes they took away soemone's right to exist, but by imprisoning them for 60 years we are essentially doing the same thing to them. Does that bring the victim back? no. (And i'm sure that right now she doesn't want to be back--because she's dead. i'm just sayin').
i feel sorry for the victim, but doing the same to these people who kiled her won't solve anything. It's like the old two wrongs don't make a right thing.
And i think we really should put more time into preventing rime and les into deling with things that have already happened and s we can do nothing about.
After this point unless you actually come up with a different argument and stop going in circles with what you are saying i'm not going to be replying.

No it doesnt bring the person back but its a thing called Justice.

No it wont do anything apart from let the family's and friends of the victims know that the offenders are paying for what they have done.

All that's been done is that they have been given a slap on the wrist and thats just a joke.

Putting them away for 60 years is saying 'You've fucked up big time and this is your punishment' which is god damned fair. They were 16, they were old enough to know the difference between right and wrong.

They didn't feel remorse when they did it, they didn't hand themselves in after what they'd done and said 'i've killed someone' So why should anyone give a fuck about if they feel remorse a few years down the line? Too little too god damned late. You reap what you sew.

And this is the end of the argument whether you like it to be or not cause I'm sick of this already -.-
wow. even if you disagree with me i at least thought you had the intelligence to see where i'm coming from.
You said yourself they are 16. So am i. I don't want to be punished for things i do now in 60 years time. Yes they know the difference between right and wrong- but doesn't everyone make mistakes and do smoething they regret when they're young? I'm not saying they ahould get a slap on thr wrist. They must be punsihed indeed. But not for 60 years. Jail 'em for a few years until they learn their lesson. THat wikll give them enough time to realise what they did was wrong, and if they do it again they'll have to suffer jail again. Keeping them in ther for all their lives doesn't give them the chance to prove they have changed.
Good gods, man. This isn't larceny, vandalism, or auto theft.

This is murder. Quite frankly, a few years isn't enough to either punish them or rehabilitate them. While life in prison isn't a good option, giving them the same sentence that you might get for car theft, or serious vandalism, simply isn't just. What if somebody killed you, or one of your friends or family? Would you want them walking away in 6 years, as if it had never happened, quite possibly to repeat their crimes? You sympathize far too much with the criminal, or far too less with the victim.
I very much agree. How can somebody say, "Give the killers a second chance"? What? How does it make sense that the KILLERS should get another chance? The victims didn't. And how does anyone know this ISN'T their second chance? Do you have any proof that this particular group of individuals haven't done anything like this before? How many chances should they get? One? Two? Ten? How many times can we afford to be wrong? How can you be sure that even ONE of the killers feels genuine remorse of what he did (as opposed to lying to avoid jail time)? Did they learn their lesson? And have you thought about the lessons that others might learn based on how we treat these murderers? Like maybe if they get a reduced sentence, how other jocks might decide to do the same thing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAS1PAh1jbw&feature=related

I hate to trot out a country song, but this one seems fitting. I don't suggest people take the law into their own hands, but I do support the death penalty for people who have been proven completely guilty of, or who have confessed to murder.
 

electric discordian

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Apr 27, 2008
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May I play devils advocate for a second, this will not be a popular view... But I am of the opinion that the initial attack that started this situation was in some part the responsibilty of the victim's themselves. Everyone knows there are areas of town the "alternative" people shouldn't venture. I am in no way vindicating this notion but it is simple common sense, for example there is a park where four women have been raped this year and yet female students still walk through late at night alone when they could add two more minutes to the journey and be in the view of CCTV. They are shocked when the unthinkable happens to them. This I am convinced was the case here, it is a well known scally blackspot there according to my friends...

As to the matter of a reduced sentence, this may not be justice but it is the law. Who is to say that after thiry years in prison they will not be changed men. Whose to say they cannot benefit society as they help young gang members out of an ever spiralling circle of violence?

Apologies is this appears to be offensive/ill judged or indeed a wee bit trolly it was in no way my intention to upset anyone, just to hopefully start a lively debate. I am not an advocate of what happened to these poor kids, it could have been any of my friends.
 

Fruhstuck

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Jul 29, 2008
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I think people who purposefully kill (or rape for that matter *tangent*) should be killed
They sacrifice all rights to be in society by partaking of such activity
And i'd happily pull the trigger or lever, kick the stool give them the injection myself
Happy in the knowledge i was making the world a better place for the people i love

EDIT: what's the difference between capital and corporal punishment?