Muslim Should Not Equal Villain

[Thedayrecker]

Well get used to the demonizing (at least until we turn it towards the Chinese). My dad is convinced they're all "savages that have been fighting since the dawn of time."

*sigh* I guess he forgot the how while the Christians were going full retard in the middle ages, the Muslims were making great advances in science and mathematics (even when the retards came back for their "holy land")

 

[The Big Eye]

maybe if moderate muslims took a more front and center position against extremists, and took back your religion from facists that seek to define it and jihad as some war against non believers, instead of the internal struggle with faith.

back when christianity was putting philosophers and scientists and jews to death as evil and non believers. islam welcomed science and other faiths.

sure does not help the islamic cause when chrisitans on one hand are often ridiculed and made the but of jokes and downright belittlement they take more or less with a grain of salt. but south park dares use the name and "image" of muhammid and they get death threats pouring in so they have to bleep even the name.

islam can be a beautiful religion and people that follow it can be caring generous and accepting even of non believers, but far too often do the vocal minority of the extremists rise to the top and belittle the rest of you.

To be fair, I think the average Muslim doesn't feel the need to distance him/herself from extremist jihadists any more than I feel the need to distance myself from the Ku Klux Klan. Most of them, for good or ill, would prefer simply to live their lives.

I object to that bit on Christianity, though. Even at their worst, the churches of Europe had no objection to scientific progress (though their hands were certainly not clean in other matters). That's more historical retcon than anything else.

Personally, I think the onus is neither on Christians nor Muslims, but on humanity itself to reconcile its differences. By their core teachings, Christianity and Islam are in fact not antithetical, but similar in very many ways. In fact, Muslims use the phrase "brother of the book" to refer to anyone who is Muslim, Christian or Jew.

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

Of course Muslim should equal villain.

However, Christian and Jewish should equal villian as well.

Organized religion is what holds mankind back after all, and should be represented as villainous and hateful wherever possible.

 

[The Big Eye]

'Muslim Should Not Equal Villain' is a laughable travesty of an assertion.

Anyone who condones rape, murder, & slavery (as any Christian, Muslim or Jew must do if they follow their 'holy' texts) is a despicable sociopath in dire need of incarceration.

I'm... not sure how you expect anyone to agree with that statement.

 

[OuroborosChoked]

Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell had Arabs in it? I don't remember that part...

First one took place mostly in Georgia (the country, not the state)
Second one took place in East Timor / Indonesia
Third one was all over the place: Panama, Japan, Korea... no Middle Eastern areas...
Double Agent has some Islamic characters and a Pakistani scientist... but they're only plot facilitators for the main enemy: an American terrorist organization (non-Islamic)
Finally, Conviction was all about a mole hunt in Third Echelon.

So... stupid question perhaps... but in which games were Muslims, Arabs, or other Middle Eastern peoples portrayed as the big baddies? Most of the time you fight Russian mercs and military local to the area you're in... again, not Middle Eastern areas.

Desert Strike? A thinly-veiled allusion to Desert Storm. Hardly anything to get upset about, considering the later title, Urban Strike, which depicts a terrorist attack on the World Trade Center in 2001 by a South American drug lord. I don't hear South Americans complaining about that one...

Metal Slug 2? Funny, I don't recall the enemies in the desert stages proclaiming any kind of religious affiliation... but perhaps you're just offended by the presentation? Well, how about the fact that the enemies you face for most of the game in almost the entire SERIES are nondescript whites? Or the fact that the game is basically a CARTOON?

True Lies? Weren't the "bad guys" in the intro to the story Russians? So what if the big bad for the movie was an Arab... remember the Arab agent who was working against the terrorist? The guy who was holding the news camera in that one scene? The one who died nobly trying to STOP the bad guy? No, let's just forget about the people who don't support the argument.

Let's just come to terms with some facts here: you're upset when Arabs are portrayed as enemies for any reason, even if they're also portrayed as heroes in the same context. Since that is the case, allow me to call bullshit on this, as everyone has had their turn as "the bad guy" in video games and movies over the years.

*Ahem* Bullshit.

Thank you.

 

[hecticpicnic]

sorry, its just the enemies of america are the enemies (of american)video games,
although games don't atmit that the enemies are muslims(cod4)its obiovous they are,
i think maybe its just some anger manegment over the whole you can't depict the prophet thing,
and those muslim extremists(i don't think prince of persia was ment to be prejudice)
but its just easy ,and because there is some truth,there are people who believe america is evil,vulger or what ever and whan it bombed
its there only really enemy

 

[squiggothhunter]

It's not Islam being portrayed. It's extremist groups who follow Islam. No video game I have ever heard of, says all Muslims are bad and all are the same. In the new MoH, the bad guy is not islam. It's the Taliban.

Then again, we all know how Muslims get offended at the slightest remark even when it wasn't intended and must be exempt from any criticism.

So if all Muslims in video games aren't bad, if they're not all the same, surely you must have lots of positive counter-examples to weigh against the dozen or so games w/ evil terrorists?

Your saying their evil terrorists. And that's the point, there's no need for counter-examples. The only real possible game in a shooter might be playing as a Iraqi militiaman against, again, evil terrorists. In shooters, you have to have someone to shoot.

Persecution complexes are fun.

Yeah it's awesome to make this stuff up! In fact *I* actually stabbed a Muslim cabbie in New York (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/muslim-question-leads-cabbie-stabbing-hate-crime-charge/story?id=11480081), and set off a pipe bomb at a Florida mosque (http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/fbi-finds-pipe-bomb-used-in-blast-at-fla-mosque/19475001) JUST SO YOU WOULD TAKE MY BEEF WITH METAL SLUG 2 SERIOUSLY!

TYPING IN ALL CAPS GETS MY POINT ACROSS!!! Seriously? And oh noes! Muslims receive backlash! In fact *I* blew up the twin towers because i don't like western culture or their beliefs. Maybe their wouldn't be backlash if extremist dictators didn't rule nearly every damn country in the Middle East.

And the ground zero mosque? How is that Islamaphobic? An unnecessary and unpaid for mosque is being built near a site of muslim extremists attack on American soil. And its a Cordoba mosque, the thing muslims build when they declare a victory.

How long did it take before any significant percentage of the population wanted to say sorry to Japan? Because its a little freaking soon for muslims to cry foul over being the bad guy. If thats hard to hear then suck it up. At least you weren't rounded up and sent to concentration camps like the wartime japanese

 

[OuroborosChoked]

To everybody telling the author to "get over it":

YOU DO REALIZE THAT THERE IS A NATIONAL DEBATE ON WHETHER A MUSLIM COMMUNITY CENTER SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE BUILT IN AN OLD BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY, AND IT'S BEING TAKEN SO SERIOUSLY THAT OTHER ISLAMIC BUILDINGS IN THE UNITED STATES ARE BEING BURNED DOWN [http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/08/28/national/main6814690.shtml], YEAH? PEOPLE IN AMERICA ARE SO IRRATIONALLY FEARFUL OF ISLAM DUE TO DELIBERATE MISREPRESENTATION THAT THEY ARE DRIVEN TO COMMIT ARSON. SELF-PROCLAIMED PATRIOTS TALK EVERY DAY OF HOW THE CONSTITUTION MAKES THE UNITED STATES THE GREATEST GOD-BLESSED COUNTRY ON EARTH, THEN TURN AROUND AND ARGUE THAT THE INALIENABLE RIGHTS THAT THEY GIVE SO MUCH LIP SERVICE TO SHOULD NOT BE EXTENDED TO PEOPLE THEY SIMPLY DON'T LIKE.

THAT IS SHEER HYPOCRISY, AND IT MAKES ME VIOLENTLY ILL.

You didn't read that article, did you?

CONSTRUCTION EQUIPMENT was burned. No building was burned down, as the building doesn't exist yet.

But yeah, there's a lot of insanity going on right now. I blame Fox News viewers (mostly Fox News), Christianity, and the Republican party. Take a poll of anybody protesting against or assaulting Muslims in this country, guaranteed it'll be someone from one of those three groups. I'd put money on it. Some particular groups just get off on hate.

And before anybody says I'm discriminating by blaming certain groups, consider this: just because you can see a river doesn't mean you hate water.

 

[Whytewulf]

Interesting read.. but...

Shoot em up games, don't typically give a lot of back-story to the bad guys.

Also, interesting is that we are talking about Muslims, were in other cases it was a a country, like Germany or Russia, not a relgious group. Right now, the Taliban is our enimy and they are Muslims. Most group terrorists today are percieved as Muslim/Taliban. So we aren't offending anyone we care about. Its about marketing, these companies want to make money.. Go fig. So it might not be smart to make it Mexico, or Australia as the bad guy.

Also it's not just the US that has these issues with the taliban, but we get all the press and make the most games. Go fig. You may not like them, but today, again only talking about today, you don't see many large groups of Christians killing people in the name of their relgion, or Buddhists, etc. There are fringe groups everywhere. Even the core German Army was just fighting a war based on propaganda, they weren't Nazi's.

 

[Whytewulf]

To everybody telling the author to "get over it":

YOU DO REALIZE THAT THERE IS A NATIONAL DEBATE ON WHETHER A MUSLIM COMMUNITY CENTER SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE BUILT IN AN OLD BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY, AND IT'S BEING TAKEN SO SERIOUSLY THAT OTHER ISLAMIC BUILDINGS IN THE UNITED STATES ARE BEING BURNED DOWN [http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/08/28/national/main6814690.shtml], YEAH? PEOPLE IN AMERICA ARE SO IRRATIONALLY FEARFUL OF ISLAM DUE TO DELIBERATE MISREPRESENTATION THAT THEY ARE DRIVEN TO COMMIT ARSON. SELF-PROCLAIMED PATRIOTS TALK EVERY DAY OF HOW THE CONSTITUTION MAKES THE UNITED STATES THE GREATEST GOD-BLESSED COUNTRY ON EARTH, THEN TURN AROUND AND ARGUE THAT THE INALIENABLE RIGHTS THAT THEY GIVE SO MUCH LIP SERVICE TO SHOULD NOT BE EXTENDED TO PEOPLE THEY SIMPLY DON'T LIKE.

THAT IS SHEER HYPOCRISY, AND IT MAKES ME VIOLENTLY ILL.

You didn't read that article, did you?

CONSTRUCTION EQUIPMENT was burned. No building was burned down, as the building doesn't exist yet.

But yeah, there's a lot of insanity going on right now. I blame Fox News viewers (mostly Fox News), Christianity, and the Republican party. Take a poll of anybody protesting against or assaulting Muslims in this country, guaranteed it'll be someone from one of those three groups. I'd put money on it. Some particular groups just get off on hate.

And before anybody says I'm discriminating by blaming certain groups, consider this: just because you can see a river doesn't mean you hate water.

Why blame any groups.. It's a person's decision. Just like saying all Muslims are terrorists. Geez, Hypocrasy at it's best. Most Republican Christians are just like Democratic Christians that are like Jewish independents, like the Buddist (I ran out of sides)... 99% of this country just wants to get along with their peaceful day. The politicians and media on all sides spark the fires.

 

[Kurt Horsting]

Not to change subjects, but Saladin Ahmed is a fucking awesome name. If there was a new-age game where they had an Muslim as the main good guy, that should be his name.

 

[garfoldsomeoneelse]

You didn't read that article, did you?

CONSTRUCTION EQUIPMENT was burned. No building was burned down, as the building doesn't exist yet.

You got me, there. I remembered vaguely hearing the story, looked it up, and lo and behold, found the article I was looking for. I didn't read it, however, because I wasn't in the mood to put up with Fox's editorializing-passed-off-as-news. They are the primary reason this is even a controversy to begin with, after all.

But hey, thanks for calling me on that; keeps me from becoming overly complacent.

 

[Soxafloppin]

Watch Eagle eye, the lead is a supposed to be a Muslim.

 

[Spitfire]

I can recall how refreshing it was for me as a young geek to sit there controlling the on-screen hero, hanging from ledges, avoiding spiked pits and quaffing potions - doing all the stuff that videogame heroes did - all while being the Prince of Persia! For a young Muslim gamer, it was nothing short of revolutionary.

How so? The Prince Of Persia games are set in ancient pre-Islamic Persia.

 

[nonl33t m4st3r]

No, Muslim =/= enemy. I do argue that, for now, extremists can equal enemy. The Taliban are Islamic extremists who murder, pillage, defy the Afghan government, and are basically a menace to the world at large. I think they deserve the same treatment the IRA gets: they are not bad people due to their religion, but they are bad people due to their actions, and are arguably worse people because they use religion to justify their actions are recruit others to their cause.

 

[Blitzkreg]

I think that for some reason the Islamic religion can be a little more fanatical than say the jewish or christian religions. Besides the 9/11 attacks really imprinted a deep hatred in the american psyche, and although its not fair, many Muslims would feel the same if a bunch of christian fanatics bombed islamic cities.

 

[OuroborosChoked]

And before anybody says I'm discriminating by blaming certain groups, consider this: just because you can see a river doesn't mean you hate water.

Why blame any groups.. It's a person's decision. Just like saying all Muslims are terrorists. Geez, Hypocrasy at it's best. Most Republican Christians are just like Democratic Christians that are like Jewish independents, like the Buddist (I ran out of sides)... 99% of this country just wants to get along with their peaceful day. The politicians and media on all sides spark the fires.

Ok, perhaps you'll understand an allegory instead: You see a car intentionally collide with another car on a highway. The car that caused the accident happened to have either a Jesus fish, a Fox News bumper sticker, or a McCain/Palin 08 bumper sticker, but the driver of that car was otherwise a non-specific whitey. The driver of the other car looked vaguely Middle Eastern.

Merely observing that the guy who caused the accident had at least one of those three items on his car doesn't mean you hate the guy.

However, you ask "why blame any groups?" Because some groups are directly responsible. Specifically, the mosque thing wouldn't even be an issue if it wasn't for right-wing reactionaries in the "blogosphere" looking for any anti-Muslim cause and the right-wing media networks (newspaper editorial writers, talk radio, and again, Fox News) that pick up on these trivial issues and give them what looks like credibility.

Why the increase in violence recently? ^ Pretty much that ^

Also, English isn't your first language, is it?

 

[supermariner]

I think using Muslims, or more specifically, the taliban as an enemy in games is admittedly unfair in its one-sidedness
however i don't think the game makers are trying to incite racial hatred or make Muslims the bad guys or any other ridiculous hypothesis (which is pointless to say on reflection as i imagine nobody believes that)

i think it's just a way for game manufacturers to update their games to a modern, contemporary and relevant setting

Plus they're not by any means making Muslims in general the villains
they're making the Taliban the villains, which for all intents and purposes, seems fair enough
they may use Muslim extremists in games far too frequently but it doesn't necessarily mean they're trying to make the entire faith group an enemy

 

[Treblaine]

Never been impressed by complaints about "orinetalism"

Complain about caricatures? Give me a fucking break EVERY country and region has their caricatures that they are recognised by by the wider world and I suppose the west when looking from that perspective. What makes the middle east so important? If someone wrote a book complaining about British Stereotypes it would be put under "light reading/ comedy" category and nobody would DARE defend if by bringing up the loss of lives in World Wars, or the tension, conflict and history of Europe through crusades, pogroms, inquisitions, revolutions and from 100 Year War to the Cold War.

The difference is I think most other parts of the world have actually DONE SOMETHING to create their own impression. Take the Far East, They have the Hong Kong film industry that to spite serving internally is exported around the world with universal appeal. With ambassadors like Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee and Jet Li's amazing film careers and world famous Japanese film directors of live action and anime.

What media comes out of the middle east that is consumed the world over? I don't know of any, there are stories to tell there but they aren't telling them. Jackie Chan films are loved and watched literally all over the world and have told really important part of Chinese history and about Chinese attitudes in their own terms.

Why does an American company like DISNEY have to tell the tale of Aladdin to the world (it WAS a worldwide release)? Why Non-Arabs make the Prince of Persia games(s)? I don't know of any major middle-eastern video games developers (well, expect for THAT one featured recently... hardly the best example) I was in a shopping mall in Doha today and I couldn't find a single game made even partly in the Middle East.

It's easy to sit on the side lines nit-picking and complaining but there is worse way to damn your own culture than by faint praise! Saying "you have to understand" is just a tiny voice against endless endless news reports where actions speak louder than words.

If Arabs and Muslims want to be better perceived in the West and everywhere they need to be pro-active; make films, anime, TV shows and comedy routines with appeal both in the communities they live both in the Middle East and in the west and for global appeal! Honk Kong can do it, Tokyo can do it, Hollywood can do it, hell even the pitiful British film industry can do it. Violence and conflict isn't the problem, Bruce Lee became a worldwide sensation the same year it was revealed the full extent of American POW's torture at the hands of Vietnamese. You may say China and Vietnam are quite separate but so are Lebanon and Yemen, yet they are tarred with the same brush today as "the middle east".