arc1991 said:
Sometimes, i can't believe some people, just take a read at this Article. It acctualy made me sick.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8126357/Muslims-clash-with-police-after-burning-poppy-in-anti-Armistice-Day-protest.html
I mean, i can see where they are coming from, but burning a poppy was extremely out of order, and the chants they were doing as well.
Your thoughts?
My thoughts are that the western world has gotten far too liberal and no longer have to tools needed to deal with problems like this. Nor am I entirely sure that people entirely comprehend the issues here.
See, the problem is that today "we" have gotten into a position where our current morality has not only rendered us militarily ineffective, it's also given enough weight that people can come forward with protests like this, especially as what are perceived as minority groups, and cause problems. I think we're seeing more and more of this kind of thing, especially from Muslims, because they have increasingly noticed they can get away with it. Ironic given the current situation that they get away with more after starting a global war and all that... but at any rate.
Something to understand is that The Muslim World was not always quite as poor as it is now. It used to be a hotbed of civilization, and one of the big things it was based around was the drug trade. Indeed terms like "Assasin" are actually corruptions of an arabic word that was pretty much associated with enforcers for their drug cartels. One of the "lol whut" things that some people bring up with the "Assasin's Creed" game (the first one) since Altair's exploits have nothing to do with drugs.
At any rate, a lot of wealth and power was involved in the drug trade, and international drug cartels located out of The Middle East and Asia were massively powerful throughout the Western World and so influential that they were undermining goverments.
A lot of Europe's wars throughout The Middle East and Asia were actually in response to drug cartels (no matter how they were remembered). To put it bluntly nations like Britan send troops out who wandered into countries slaughtered farmers, killed drug merchants, and pretty much wiped out anyone that got in their way. It wasn't so much a "don't do drugs" thing as a matter of power due to the money and the influance cartels could gain over addicted politicians and such.
People tend to forget about this kind of thing when talking about the modern "War On Drugs" both what transpired with Opium and Poppy/Heroin cartels, and why a lot of nations don't want them legalized (especially when your looking at the abillity of non-Western nations to export as opposed to domestic production of course). When some people talk about heading down to say South or Central America and blowing the living crud out of the cartels down there to reduce the US drug issue, a lot of people seem to overlook that things like this have already happened (and it worked).
At any rate, if you read a lot of vintage stuff from like the 1920s or written closer to the dawn of the 20th century it's a hot topic. Stuff like "The Shadow" involved eastern mysticism and a hero who was formerly a drug dealer (something they kept for the movie) which is why he "knew the evil that lurked in the hearts of men" since he was a massive bastard at one time but reformed. The Fu Manchu stories were also heavily into this, and of course when you read stories about guys like "Conan" and similarly themed characters they referance the "Lotus Trade" which is a direct referance to ancient drug cartels and the like.
The job done on the international drug trade pretty much gutted the economies in The Middle East and Asia and all religious and political BS aside, a lot of the bad blood and desire for social vengeance revolves around this. Afghanistan for example has a TON of poppy fields but no wealthy nations they can sell to, which is a big part of why they are so poor.
This is all intentionally basic, and I'm aware of this, so no need to correct me on those grounds. My referances to fiction are largely because of the crowd (on The Escapist) I'm speaking to.
At any rate, those signs, combined with burning a poppy is absolutly ridiculous in the overall scheme of things. Oh sure, I understand WHY Muslims are upset on so many levels, and the same can be said for people from a lot of Asian nations (unrelated to this), but when we've become so tolerant that we let this kind of thing go on, I think we need to re-assess our priorities throughout The Western World, and adjust our morality and laws accordingly because it's just going to get progressively worse.
I think the US, UK, and other nations need to consider modifying laws on demonstrations like this along cultural grounds, and based on historical conflicts. To put things bluntly when you start letting things like this go, it's going to cause society wide problems especially if people listen and don't understand the context. I mean when people lose wars, or suffer in the long run even after winning and forcing someone off, thy are going to have plenty of hardship and dead people to whine about. However these things were done for some good reasons, especially given what was known at the time, and rarely is that context going to remain or be understood, especially as morality changes.
To put things into perspective I think Muslims with militant signs burning poppies to protest British Wars (as I understand it) is ridiculous. It's sort of like how in another 50 or 60 years from now when World War II is as old as the various "Opium Wars" and other drug wars and such we have Nazi descendants coming out of hiding and protesting their treatment and having to have remain in hiding. Given the passage of time people might think this is fair and "OMG these people need repairations".
It's no more ridiculous than say a group of murderous drug deals who would addict people, squeeze them for everything they had, and then send vicious fanatical killers after them, while trying to addict politicians and take direct control of govermental policies, coming out and pulling the "oh poor, oppressed us, how could you kill us over something like this" card. The kingpin in his Poppy Ranch or opium lord probably didn't seem much more benevolent than the Nazis did. When time comes, and enough spin, things can change. I think you need to stick to your guns on certain issues or you fail to learn from the past.
