MW2: how did the [spoilers] blow up?

[Shynobee]

Heh, people assume because space is a vacuum that's the only principle of physics you have to obey.
Never mind all the matter and gas introduced into the vacuum of space by a fucking nuclear warhead exploding. That's right people, when something explodes you get a lot of pressurised gas expanding very rapidly. If you don't think gas can carry a shockwave, I can see how you'd nitpick this point.

But please, feel free to ignore this post if you want to ***** about a very good game because it's trendy to do so. While you're at it, complain about why lasers make noise during space battle sequences in Star Wars.

/\

This

 

[gbemery]

Because they filmed it in a sound stage in the desert...oh wait moon landing moon landing. *smack*



Alright lets settle this the old science way. Okay we all formed our hypotheses so now lets conduct our experiments...anyone have a nuke and a usable delivery system?

 

[Rancid0ffspring]

SNIP

Because Call Of Duty: Trade Sanctions would be so much more fun?

 

[Agayek]

Heh, people assume because space is a vacuum that's the only principle of physics you have to obey.
Never mind all the matter and gas introduced into the vacuum of space by a fucking nuclear warhead exploding. That's right people, when something explodes you get a lot of pressurised gas expanding very rapidly. If you don't think gas can carry a shockwave, I can see how you'd nitpick this point.

But please, feel free to ignore this post if you want to ***** about a very good game because it's trendy to do so. While you're at it, complain about why lasers make noise during space battle sequences in Star Wars.

I'm about 85% certain that a nuclear explosion does not create matter, since one of the basic fundamentals of physics is that matter cannot be created or destroyed.

That means the explosion would carry exactly the same total mass as the warhead. This is not enough material to convey a shockwave capable of destroying the ISS. Maybe a few solar panels would be destroyed, or if they're unlucky enough for a significantly large piece (which in and of itself is unlikely in an explosion of that magnitude) were to hit somewhere important they may have to abandon the station. There's not the slightest chance in hell there's enough force carried through that distance uniformly enough to do what's shown.

Yeah, last time I checked there is not only no mass out there but there is no air?

The only thing the bomb would release is energy.... Now that energy has to go somewhere. It is plausible, I suppose.

Energy in a pure form (in this situation almost exclusively electro-magnetic) would not destroy the ISS. It could kill everyone in the station due to radiation poisoning, but it would not destroy the station itself.

 

[crepesack]

SNIP

Because Call Of Duty: Trade Sanctions would be so much more fun?

I see your resolution and raise you an embargo.

 

[Cherry Cola]

But please, feel free to ignore this post if you want to ***** about a very good game because it's trendy to do so.

Or maybe I just don't like MW2 because it's not actually a very good game. Maybe that's possible too.

Regardless of how wrong it is, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Dude, I just gotta say, for everything you've done on this thread...

What's that? You want another one? Well here you go, hero of science

And people say that physics isn't cool. You are an inspiration to all of us, and I bow before you

Now can we end this flame-war thread?

 

[Agayek]

I just found out that an EMP is a nuke detonated at a high altitude. So it is possible that the ISS could have been in the initial blast range of the nuke.

Actually, an EMP is a pulse of electro-magnetic energy that has nasty side-effects on unprotected electronics. If you want an example of what it tends to do, take a relatively weak magnet and put it on your monitor (especially if you have one of those old CRT ones laying around somewhere) or maybe your TV. The picture will get all kinds of screwy. And the stronger/bigger the field, the stronger the effect. Nowadays though, the vast majority of military hardware is shielded from EMPs, otherwise it would be ridiculously easy to completely hamstring any modern fighting force.

 

[XxF1R3B1RDxX]

Plot holes in modern warfare 2.

1. War between Russia and the USA would be nuclear, therefore impossible... unless they agree to fight in some other country with out nukes or allies with nukes.

4. The discovery of a dead foreign agent at the scene of a terrorist attack would not trigger a war. Even if the agent was involved. If anything, it would just trigger another "terrorist attack" on the other side.

2. The launch of a nuclear missile would trigger the launch of everyone else's missiles. There was even a satellite launch that almost started WW3. Launching missiles like that is more dangerous than you think. They need to announce all this launches you know.

3. The ISS would not have been destroyed, no air for the shock wave to travel in space. The burst of Radiation may have killed them though... slowly.

4. I'm also pretty sure Russian aircraft (and American) are hardened against EMP. So the EMP effect from the nuke would have done nothing to the aircraft. Even during a catastrophic engine failure, a helicopter can still land without any power.

5. Starting a major war to get more recruits is like setting houses on fire to get more fire fighters... you'll get more fire fighters... but you've just burnt down the town they were meant to protect.

To be honest, I blame the 'Michel Bay' Syndrome. Sure, Michel Bay knows how to make a movie that pleases your average joe ( or jonny six pack ), But for the intelligent gamer who knows what UAV stands for, and probably has a degree in political science... this game makes as much scene as Mario

Infinity Award. Your Campaign was a bit average, sack the guy who wrote the story and hire a real writer. Don't bother with MW3. Make a new shooter and start afresh. Great multi-player though, kudos for that.

Its a video game it doesn't have to be realistic like that. Although yes there would be no shockwave, the expanding gas from the nuke would destroy the ISS, and the gas came from the nuclear reaction so don't try to say anything about where it came from. Also not every vehicle is protected from EMP. If you people actually knew anything about physics or anything but your parents basements you would be able to connect the dots, they are not that hard to follow.

 

[Agayek]

Its a video game it doesn't have to be realistic like that. Although yes there would be no shockwave, the expanding gas from the nuke would destroy the ISS, and the gas came from the nuclear reaction so don't try to say anything about where it came from. Also not every vehicle is protected from EMP. If you people actually knew anything about physics or anything but your parents basements you would be able to connect the dots, they are not that hard to follow.

Nukes cannot create matter. The expanding cloud from the explosion would have precisely the same mass as that of the missile itself. At the distances we're discussing, the gasses/particles would be so diffuse that the thousands-of-impacts-a-day mini-asteroids would be more dangerous. Simply put, there is no way for the explosion as portrayed to destroy the station was it's shown. It could easily kill everyone in the station through radiation poisoning, or knock out the necessary systems and send it spiraling down to burn up in the atmosphere, but it would not simply disintegrate the station. There's no medium to convey the force necessary to do that.

 

[Blitzkrieg8]

theres only one way to find out if this can happen. We need to blow up the ISS with a nuke

 

[Adanos]

Thermosphere
Temperature increases with height in the thermosphere from the mesopause up to the thermopause, then is constant with height. The temperature of this layer can rise to 1,500 °C (2,730 °F), though the gas molecules are so far apart that temperature in the usual sense is not well defined. The International Space Station orbits in this layer, between 320 and 380 km (200 and 240 mi). The top of the thermosphere is the bottom of the exosphere, called the exobase. Its height varies with solar activity and ranges from about 350–800 km (220–500 mi; 1,100,000–2,600,000 ft).

And


Apogee of ISS: 353 km altitude (191 nmi)
(15 September 2009)

Rezearch

 

[The Big Eye]

So - conceivable, but it was too dang far away.
All the same, if I could choose the circumstances of my own death, I'd probably take those of that astronaut (assuming death by snu-snu was disallowed, of course). Think about it: it would be pretty much the ultimate skydive, and you'd break a world record to boot.
Lucky bastard.

 

[Dalisclock]

I'm more confused about how a Private First Class was assigned straight to the C.I.A.

I'm more confused how he was inserted into Makarovs group in a grand total of one day, closely enough to be one of 5 guys at the airport.

 

[halo2fan120]

um ok ive been reading this thread but to everyone that thinks the explosion cant travel in space you are wrong, what hapens when a sun goes super nova? BIG SHOCKWAVE ok there i stated my point.

 

[ad5x5]

Ho boy, this thread is so full of fail.
the ignorance of physics on here is staggering.

There are a lot of half-truths being floated around and argued as fact.

I'm about 85% certain that a nuclear explosion does not create matter, since one of the basic fundamentals of physics is that matter cannot be created or destroyed.

Energy in a pure form (in this situation almost exclusively electro-magnetic) would not destroy the ISS. It could kill everyone in the station due to radiation poisoning, but it would not destroy the station itself.

I'll start with this. A nuclear explosion does not only not create matter. It destroys matter. the mass coming out of the fissile material is less than that which goes in. Which is why there is such a large 'explosion' as the amount of energy in matter is immense (E=mc^2). While classical physics argues correctly that matter cannot be created or destroyed, quantum physics tells us that this is not true on the quantum level (around an angstrom).

As for the radiation poisoning...
An earlier poster did some crunching on p2 (2nd post down) for a 16kT nuke at 1250km (for the purposes of this argument I'm going to assume that these numbers are correct I'm not going chasing round the interweb to check.
Radiation density was calculated at 0.08J/m^2. Multiply by 1000 for a 16MT -> 80J/m^2
Multiply by 20 for multiple warheads (an exaggeration) -> 1600J/m^2

Seem large?
the standard value for S is accepted at S=1340J/m^2 (S is the value of solar radiation reaching the earth)
So in effect, the astronauts would have seen a brief doubling of the light in the ISS (if they were sun-side). Hardly going to vaporise the station or cause radiation sickness. Might have to blink a few times though, there may have been a few tears. De dums.
So there goes the radiation being so intense the structure collapsed...

Never mind all the matter and gas introduced into the vacuum of space by a fucking nuclear warhead exploding. That's right people, when something explodes you get a lot of pressurised gas expanding very rapidly. If you don't think gas can carry a shockwave, I can see how you'd nitpick this point.

A conventional explosion is the rapid production of high energy gas through rapid combustion. This all requires somewhere to go so expands rapidly, creating a bang and damage.
A nuclear explosion does not do this. It converts a very small amount of mass (<0.01%) into energy.
Gas can carry a shockwave, as can liquids and solids. Shockwave transmission is directly dependent on density - the denser the medium the quicker it travels, assuming it is not a stationary shockwave - check the speed of sound in air against water.
At sea level the standard density of air is 1.27kg/m^3 and at this level can be a force (sic) to reckon with, as demonstrated during hurricanes, tornados and nuclear explosions.
At the altitude of the ISS (perigee 336km, apogee 346km - I'm using 340km because its nice and round), the density of air is so low that it cannot be measured accurately, which is why the particles can reach temperatures of over 1500°C and it still be very very cold.
So shockwave goes out a possible solution.

This occured in real life (See: US invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan) even though they believed they had nuclear weapons they still invaded.

No-one thought Afghanistan had nukes. Its just that no-one likes the Taliban - except the Taliban.
They didn't even think Iraq had nukes, just chems and biological weapons. Also Saddam didn't have the capability to deliver these to US soil.
Note the difference in approach to Iran and N. Korea - who either do or are very close to acquiring nuclear weapons. N. Korea may also have sufficient rocket range to land them on the West coast of America.

Seriously. Hedgehogs aren't REALLY that fast you know.

yes they are.
/joke

On another note to protect against EMP, use a faraday cage.



Oh and why did this topic get resurrected?

 

[Paragon Fury]

The ISS, contrary to popular belief, is often still within the Earth's atmosphere while orbiting the Earth. A nuclear weapon of sufficient strength could produced a large enough shockwave to destroy or harm the station. In addition, if the shockwave had not destroyed the station, the EMP would have, since everyone inside would die due to equipment failure and the station would decay from its orbit and crash into the Earth.

 

[AdambotLive]

Well, i can explain all your answers. pick the correct spoiler first.

Spoiler: A

Spoiler: are you sure you want to pick this one?

WRONG! Pick B instead.

Spoiler: B

Spoiler: are you sure you want to pick this one?

IT'S A FUCKING GAME.

 

[SilentHunter7]

Heh, people assume because space is a vacuum that's the only principle of physics you have to obey.
Never mind all the matter and gas introduced into the vacuum of space by a fucking nuclear warhead exploding. That's right people, when something explodes you get a lot of pressurised gas expanding very rapidly. If you don't think gas can carry a shockwave, I can see how you'd nitpick this point.

But please, feel free to ignore this post if you want to ***** about a very good game because it's trendy to do so. While you're at it, complain about why lasers make noise during space battle sequences in Star Wars.

A nuclear warhead can't weigh that much. 100-200 pounds at the most. By the time the particles from the warhead hit the station (which has to be at least a few thousand miles away), they would have been blown so far apart, that only a few would actually hit the station. And a few atoms could never have the kinetic energy to do that.

Also, even if you could generate a decent shockwave at that altitude, it would have to travel at relativistic speeds to reach the ISS that fast. And not even a nuclear warhead has that much energy.