MW3 plot worries

[ZeroMachine]

You're wrong.

Dead wrong.

So, so, dead wrong.

I posted this in another thread and have yet to get any sort of real response to it. So I think whenever I see people who don't understand the story to Modern Warfare 2 and think it's riddled with plot holes, I'll just leave this for them...

Ninja'd, thanks for explaining it.
He's right, it isn't a terrible plot, but it was badly explained, so I can understand everyone's confusion.

Also, I think Shepherd did it so he would be recognised as a war hero: If he was the one to lead the U.S.' successful defence against the Russians, he'd be revered for being a stalwart guardian of the country.

Nah- he's dead. Leave him dead.

Now this would be a plot hole.
Realistically, the likelihood that he is dead is highly minimal.
Soap was very wounded, drowsy, and in a bad position to throw a knife. At best, he could muster up the strength to impale Shepherd's eye completely.
It's pretty much impossible that the knife, with it's blade being bigger than the hole in your skull, would penetrate through to the brain with such little force applied to it.
Even so, if it did puncture Shepherd's brain, it would hardly kill him. Stabbing that lobe of the brain?
Meh, it might cause Shepherd to have some change in personality, but it would most certainly not cause enough damage to kill him.

There are cases (Phineas Gage being the most prominent) where much larger sections of brain have been damaged or removed entirely, and the person has survived such damage and made a full physical (Not necessarily mental) recovery.

Having said that, I just know IW will announce him dead.
If anything, that is by far the most unrealistic part of the MW series.

OT: I'm not worried at all for the plot. I expect I'll enjoy it immensely. As I've said so many times before, when MP has the customisation of Black Ops and then some, then I'll take an interest. So far I'm only in it for the campaign, I enjoyed MW1+2's greatly.

Stretching realism and plot holes are two separate things. Saying that killed him is a stretch of the imagination.

Having him come back with no visible scar would be a plot hole.

 

[Xanadu84]

First off, CoD follows in the tradition of things like 007, so wild and unrealistic scenarios aren't really an issue. This isn't a complex examination of realistic global politics, it's the equivalent of a popcorn action flick. The standard for an acceptable break from reality is much lower, and that is not a bad thing. Just style.

Secondly, No Russian really wasn't a plot hole. You needed to gain Makarovs trust so you could get intel to bring down the ENTIRE terrorist organization, as opposed to just killing and making a martyr out of him, and then the terrorists release a chemical weapon or something. The only way to gain his trust so you could save millions of lives is to assist in killing allied civilians. But in gaining his trust, you theoretically kill hundreds to save millions. Disagree with the philosophy all you want, the logic was reasonable. Makarov was just a step ahead the whole time. MW really isn't about Russia as the Antagonists versus America as the Protagonists, it's about the soldiers you play as the protagonists fighting Makarov and General whatshisface as the antagonists, who are manipulating Russia into a war. The fact that America did something to legitimize the attack just makes the conflict more interesting and tragic, and really, is quite the argument against CoD being a giant, Macho America love-fest. It's over the top and unrealistic, but surprisingly compelling.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

You say that you were on the Russian's side, but if you remember they were already planning to attack America before the airport massacre. They's already stolen the crashed ACS module and stolen it's codes so they could launch a cyber attack to precede the full scale invasion. All the airport massacre gave them was a convenient excuse.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

Spoiler: Reason for the War

After Modern Warfare 1, Ultranationalists took over Russia. Zakhaev is labeled a martyr, and the controlling party in Russia is just waiting for a reason to attack the United States.

They find it. Makarov, one of Zakhaev's lieutenants, leads an attack on a Russian airport. A CIA agent who is attempting to take Makarov down from the inside is found out, killed, and framed for the attack- making it seem at a glance like the entire thing was funded by the US. The Ultranationalists jump at this opportunity and attack the States. Why didn't they investigate further? Most likely, they put Makarov up to it. The U.Nationalists hated America, so they had them framed.

Sure, it isn't realistic- but it isn't supposed to be super realistic. It's supposed to make sense and make for a good war plot. Whether or not it's good is up to the player- but it definitely makes sense.

The thing that always bothered me in this part is: Have you ever noticed that Another one of the terrorists Die in No Russian. And I don't mean he CAN die. I mean that I have played that level 4 times and EVERY.SINGLE.TIME, he dies at the Exact same place, namely, in front of the Landing gear of the 2nd plane docked to the terminal. And EVERY time, Makarov says "Leave him!". That death wasn't coincidental. It was scripted. So if Allen is NOT the only terrorist casualty, WHY oh why did no-one find that guy and go "Hey, this guy is Russian!".

For that matter, why would they find a single dead body and just KNOW that the guy is american? What did he have his passport on him? A tiny American Flag? So what if he spoke "no russian". He could've been British. Or Hungarian for all the Russians knew.

It simply is in NO way whatsoever believable that Russia would go to War because "someone" attacked it's civilians, and they just happened to be pissed off at America at the time. Why did they even NEED an excuse?

I'm not worried about the plot at all. And chances are, it won't be "Russia vs the World", it'll be "Russia vs the United States". There was no hinting to other countries getting involved. If they do, though, they'll probably not have it all against Russia.

Uhh, did you not see all the teasers? There's definitely going to be fighting in London, Paris, Hamburg(I think) and Dubai. A few more I can't remember.

 

[Ponce Master-General]

With the way Call of Duty stories have been going since World At War, MW3's story will be even more vomit inducing than last time.

 

[cke]

You're wrong.

Dead wrong.

So, so, dead wrong.

Could you, perhaps, explain why the US didn't retaliate with nukes?
I mean it's the current doctrine, "You invade us, we nuke you to stone age".

 

[SilentCom]

Aftering seeing the trailer to MW3, I have to say that the plot looks the same as MW2, except in New York.

 

[ZeroMachine]

You're wrong.

Dead wrong.

So, so, dead wrong.

Could you, perhaps, explain why the US didn't retaliate with nukes?
I mean it's the current doctrine, "You invade us, we nuke you to stone age".

Because that's never been the current doctrine and humanity isn't that stupid. Every hear of the concept of "Nuclear war is MAD"?

Mutually Assured Destruction. The only outcome of Global Nuclear War. Plus, if we used a nuke, we'd become the bad guy in the eyes of the rest of the world. We had the advantage of the fact that the people in charge of Russia at the time were Ultranationalists who cared little for UN sanctions.

Spoiler: Reason for the War

After Modern Warfare 1, Ultranationalists took over Russia. Zakhaev is labeled a martyr, and the controlling party in Russia is just waiting for a reason to attack the United States.

They find it. Makarov, one of Zakhaev's lieutenants, leads an attack on a Russian airport. A CIA agent who is attempting to take Makarov down from the inside is found out, killed, and framed for the attack- making it seem at a glance like the entire thing was funded by the US. The Ultranationalists jump at this opportunity and attack the States. Why didn't they investigate further? Most likely, they put Makarov up to it. The U.Nationalists hated America, so they had them framed.

Sure, it isn't realistic- but it isn't supposed to be super realistic. It's supposed to make sense and make for a good war plot. Whether or not it's good is up to the player- but it definitely makes sense.

The thing that always bothered me in this part is: Have you ever noticed that Another one of the terrorists Die in No Russian. And I don't mean he CAN die. I mean that I have played that level 4 times and EVERY.SINGLE.TIME, he dies at the Exact same place, namely, in front of the Landing gear of the 2nd plane docked to the terminal. And EVERY time, Makarov says "Leave him!". That death wasn't coincidental. It was scripted. So if Allen is NOT the only terrorist casualty, WHY oh why did no-one find that guy and go "Hey, this guy is Russian!".

For that matter, why would they find a single dead body and just KNOW that the guy is american? What did he have his passport on him? A tiny American Flag? So what if he spoke "no russian". He could've been British. Or Hungarian for all the Russians knew.

It simply is in NO way whatsoever believable that Russia would go to War because "someone" attacked it's civilians, and they just happened to be pissed off at America at the time. Why did they even NEED an excuse?

I'm not worried about the plot at all. And chances are, it won't be "Russia vs the World", it'll be "Russia vs the United States". There was no hinting to other countries getting involved. If they do, though, they'll probably not have it all against Russia.

Uhh, did you not see all the teasers? There's definitely going to be fighting in London, Paris, Hamburg(I think) and Dubai. A few more I can't remember.

As I explained, the Ultranationalists in control of Russia at the time of Modern Warfare 2 were waiting for a reason to invade the US, so they didn't look too deeply at the details surrounding the No Russian mission.

As for your second comment, someone already pointed that out to me earlier in the thread... last night. Go check it out.

 

[artanis_neravar]

Russia, and North Korea are the biggest threats in the world right now.

Perhaps I am just reading this wrong, but are you honestly putting Russia on a par with North Kore?

Not on par, no Russia is the only country that could actually launch an invasion against the US, Korea is a bigger issue over all because they have show their disregard for the UN and launched attacks against South Korea, while also having a nuclear arsenal of unknown size

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

Spoiler: Reason for the War

After Modern Warfare 1, Ultranationalists took over Russia. Zakhaev is labeled a martyr, and the controlling party in Russia is just waiting for a reason to attack the United States.

They find it. Makarov, one of Zakhaev's lieutenants, leads an attack on a Russian airport. A CIA agent who is attempting to take Makarov down from the inside is found out, killed, and framed for the attack- making it seem at a glance like the entire thing was funded by the US. The Ultranationalists jump at this opportunity and attack the States. Why didn't they investigate further? Most likely, they put Makarov up to it. The U.Nationalists hated America, so they had them framed.

Sure, it isn't realistic- but it isn't supposed to be super realistic. It's supposed to make sense and make for a good war plot. Whether or not it's good is up to the player- but it definitely makes sense.

The thing that always bothered me in this part is: Have you ever noticed that Another one of the terrorists Die in No Russian. And I don't mean he CAN die. I mean that I have played that level 4 times and EVERY.SINGLE.TIME, he dies at the Exact same place, namely, in front of the Landing gear of the 2nd plane docked to the terminal. And EVERY time, Makarov says "Leave him!". That death wasn't coincidental. It was scripted. So if Allen is NOT the only terrorist casualty, WHY oh why did no-one find that guy and go "Hey, this guy is Russian!".

For that matter, why would they find a single dead body and just KNOW that the guy is american? What did he have his passport on him? A tiny American Flag? So what if he spoke "no russian". He could've been British. Or Hungarian for all the Russians knew.

It simply is in NO way whatsoever believable that Russia would go to War because "someone" attacked it's civilians, and they just happened to be pissed off at America at the time. Why did they even NEED an excuse.

As I explained, the Ultranationalists in control of Russia at the time of Modern Warfare 2 were waiting for a reason to invade the US, so they didn't look too deeply at the details surrounding the No Russian mission.

No I get that, but my point is then, that Shepard literally had no REASON to frame Private Allen by offering him to Makarov to use as a scapegoat. He didn't need to deal with Makarov AT ALL. If the Russians were so pissed off at Americans that even a nose twitch would've set them on the Battle March.....why not just call them up and say:

"Hey Vodka-face! Attack America so I can get new recruits for the army(which I agree with the OP is just retarded reasoning)!! Also I slept with you're MOM.....who is FAT!! >"

Voila. Problem solved. No unnecessary terrorist plot. No framed American Dumbass. Ofcourse, I'm well aware that this would also rob them of the opportunity to add a Scandalous, controversial bit to the game to generate Publicity and turn heads which is the only......no wait that needs to be emphasized....
[HEADING=2]ONLY[/HEADING]
reason they added that segment. NOT for the story. NOT for complexity. For the Publicity.

Do you deny this fact? If you do.....I Pity you.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

I don't see why you are worried after the pile that was MW2. Also if you don't like the direction/what they have done with something speak the language of companies. This is money. So just don't buy the game this is probably the only way companies will ever learn that they are doing it plain wrong. I did it for MW2 cause of Dedis but now I am doing it after BO because of a subpar game multiplayer side.

 

[Still Life]

MW2's campaign was like a nice block of Swiss cheese. Tasty, but full of holes. I don't plan on buying MW3, but I hope they pay more attention to narrative consistency this time around; I felt bewildered after completing MW2.

 

[ZeroMachine]

Spoiler: Reason for the War

After Modern Warfare 1, Ultranationalists took over Russia. Zakhaev is labeled a martyr, and the controlling party in Russia is just waiting for a reason to attack the United States.

They find it. Makarov, one of Zakhaev's lieutenants, leads an attack on a Russian airport. A CIA agent who is attempting to take Makarov down from the inside is found out, killed, and framed for the attack- making it seem at a glance like the entire thing was funded by the US. The Ultranationalists jump at this opportunity and attack the States. Why didn't they investigate further? Most likely, they put Makarov up to it. The U.Nationalists hated America, so they had them framed.

Sure, it isn't realistic- but it isn't supposed to be super realistic. It's supposed to make sense and make for a good war plot. Whether or not it's good is up to the player- but it definitely makes sense.

The thing that always bothered me in this part is: Have you ever noticed that Another one of the terrorists Die in No Russian. And I don't mean he CAN die. I mean that I have played that level 4 times and EVERY.SINGLE.TIME, he dies at the Exact same place, namely, in front of the Landing gear of the 2nd plane docked to the terminal. And EVERY time, Makarov says "Leave him!". That death wasn't coincidental. It was scripted. So if Allen is NOT the only terrorist casualty, WHY oh why did no-one find that guy and go "Hey, this guy is Russian!".

For that matter, why would they find a single dead body and just KNOW that the guy is american? What did he have his passport on him? A tiny American Flag? So what if he spoke "no russian". He could've been British. Or Hungarian for all the Russians knew.

It simply is in NO way whatsoever believable that Russia would go to War because "someone" attacked it's civilians, and they just happened to be pissed off at America at the time. Why did they even NEED an excuse.

As I explained, the Ultranationalists in control of Russia at the time of Modern Warfare 2 were waiting for a reason to invade the US, so they didn't look too deeply at the details surrounding the No Russian mission.

No I get that, but my point is then, that Shepard literally had no REASON to frame Private Allen by offering him to Makarov to use as a scapegoat. He didn't need to deal with Makarov AT ALL. If the Russians were so pissed off at Americans that even a nose twitch would've set them on the Battle March.....why not just call them up and say:

"Hey Vodka-face! Attack America so I can get new recruits for the army(which I agree with the OP is just retarded reasoning)!! Also I slept with you're MOM.....who is FAT!! >"

Voila. Problem solved. No unnecessary terrorist plot. No framed American Dumbass. Ofcourse, I'm well aware that this would also rob them of the opportunity to add a Scandalous, controversial bit to the game to generate Publicity and turn heads which is the only......no wait that needs to be emphasized....
[HEADING=2]ONLY[/HEADING]
reason they added that segment. NOT for the story. NOT for complexity. For the Publicity.

Do you deny this fact? If you do.....I Pity you.

Your insulting tone is completely and utterly unnecessary.

 

[Zantos]

Okay, so far, there's been two trailers at time of writing, one showing the US and one showing England.

So, we have the US, the UK and Russia in a war. With 3 major countries fighting, I can guess that the writers are going with a fictional World War 3 this time around.

As we all know, the war between the US and Russia surrounds the events of No Russian.
Ignoring the massive plot holes for a moment, Russia invaded america because they believed it was a US supported massacre of russian civilians... which it, oddly enough, was. I mean sure, they went there to, if I remember correctly, get info on Makarov and put him on trial (Even though he was a known terror-sorry, I said ignoring plot holes) but to do that, they gave Allen full permission to kill every civilian he saw.

Again, ignoring the massive plot holes, this was the biggest problem with MW2's plot for me, I was on Russia's side the whole time.

Given that Russia is always the antagonist in FPS games, this means that it's going to be russia against the world, when it should be the world against the US. At least in my eyes.

Let's take a look at the ending of MW2, we have the ranger squad, who knows nothing about what's going on and the TF141 guys who are the only guys who know what's going on.
So there is a possibility that TF141 could somehow get the truth out... no, wait, their terrorists know, who the fuck would listen to them?

Well there you go, we don't even have any details yet on the plot of MW3 and I've already gone and given reasoning as to why the plot will totally suck.

So people, am I right, wrong or something completely different?

Russia invaded America because they wanted to (because of the corrupt and very anti-american russian leadership set up previously), that's why they'd already stolen and reprogrammed the satellite uplink thing by the time you had to go retrieve it. The massacre was just something put together by Makarov to get the people to support it.

Knowing he's involved and being able to prove it are two completely different things. How do you think organised crime works? He was collecting evidence so they could put a full case together. That isn't a plot hole, it's called real life situation.

This was all pretty much on display for people who were paying attention.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

Spoiler: Reason for the War

After Modern Warfare 1, Ultranationalists took over Russia. Zakhaev is labeled a martyr, and the controlling party in Russia is just waiting for a reason to attack the United States.

They find it. Makarov, one of Zakhaev's lieutenants, leads an attack on a Russian airport. A CIA agent who is attempting to take Makarov down from the inside is found out, killed, and framed for the attack- making it seem at a glance like the entire thing was funded by the US. The Ultranationalists jump at this opportunity and attack the States. Why didn't they investigate further? Most likely, they put Makarov up to it. The U.Nationalists hated America, so they had them framed.

Sure, it isn't realistic- but it isn't supposed to be super realistic. It's supposed to make sense and make for a good war plot. Whether or not it's good is up to the player- but it definitely makes sense.

The thing that always bothered me in this part is: Have you ever noticed that Another one of the terrorists Die in No Russian. And I don't mean he CAN die. I mean that I have played that level 4 times and EVERY.SINGLE.TIME, he dies at the Exact same place, namely, in front of the Landing gear of the 2nd plane docked to the terminal. And EVERY time, Makarov says "Leave him!". That death wasn't coincidental. It was scripted. So if Allen is NOT the only terrorist casualty, WHY oh why did no-one find that guy and go "Hey, this guy is Russian!".

For that matter, why would they find a single dead body and just KNOW that the guy is american? What did he have his passport on him? A tiny American Flag? So what if he spoke "no russian". He could've been British. Or Hungarian for all the Russians knew.

It simply is in NO way whatsoever believable that Russia would go to War because "someone" attacked it's civilians, and they just happened to be pissed off at America at the time. Why did they even NEED an excuse.

As I explained, the Ultranationalists in control of Russia at the time of Modern Warfare 2 were waiting for a reason to invade the US, so they didn't look too deeply at the details surrounding the No Russian mission.

No I get that, but my point is then, that Shepard literally had no REASON to frame Private Allen by offering him to Makarov to use as a scapegoat. He didn't need to deal with Makarov AT ALL. If the Russians were so pissed off at Americans that even a nose twitch would've set them on the Battle March.....why not just call them up and say:

"Hey Vodka-face! Attack America so I can get new recruits for the army(which I agree with the OP is just retarded reasoning)!! Also I slept with you're MOM.....who is FAT!! >"

Voila. Problem solved. No unnecessary terrorist plot. No framed American Dumbass. Ofcourse, I'm well aware that this would also rob them of the opportunity to add a Scandalous, controversial bit to the game to generate Publicity and turn heads which is the only......no wait that needs to be emphasized....
[HEADING=2]ONLY[/HEADING]
reason they added that segment. NOT for the story. NOT for complexity. For the Publicity.

Do you deny this fact? If you do.....I Pity you.

Your insulting tone is completely and utterly unnecessary.

Insulting tone? What are you...? You mean just for that last line?

......seriously? How the flippin heck is "I pity you" insulting? You're on the Internet, my man! Best not to be such a softie.

Now are you going to refute my claim or not? Or Was that you're way of backing out?

 

[ZeroMachine]

Spoiler: Reason for the War

After Modern Warfare 1, Ultranationalists took over Russia. Zakhaev is labeled a martyr, and the controlling party in Russia is just waiting for a reason to attack the United States.

They find it. Makarov, one of Zakhaev's lieutenants, leads an attack on a Russian airport. A CIA agent who is attempting to take Makarov down from the inside is found out, killed, and framed for the attack- making it seem at a glance like the entire thing was funded by the US. The Ultranationalists jump at this opportunity and attack the States. Why didn't they investigate further? Most likely, they put Makarov up to it. The U.Nationalists hated America, so they had them framed.

Sure, it isn't realistic- but it isn't supposed to be super realistic. It's supposed to make sense and make for a good war plot. Whether or not it's good is up to the player- but it definitely makes sense.

The thing that always bothered me in this part is: Have you ever noticed that Another one of the terrorists Die in No Russian. And I don't mean he CAN die. I mean that I have played that level 4 times and EVERY.SINGLE.TIME, he dies at the Exact same place, namely, in front of the Landing gear of the 2nd plane docked to the terminal. And EVERY time, Makarov says "Leave him!". That death wasn't coincidental. It was scripted. So if Allen is NOT the only terrorist casualty, WHY oh why did no-one find that guy and go "Hey, this guy is Russian!".

For that matter, why would they find a single dead body and just KNOW that the guy is american? What did he have his passport on him? A tiny American Flag? So what if he spoke "no russian". He could've been British. Or Hungarian for all the Russians knew.

It simply is in NO way whatsoever believable that Russia would go to War because "someone" attacked it's civilians, and they just happened to be pissed off at America at the time. Why did they even NEED an excuse.

As I explained, the Ultranationalists in control of Russia at the time of Modern Warfare 2 were waiting for a reason to invade the US, so they didn't look too deeply at the details surrounding the No Russian mission.

No I get that, but my point is then, that Shepard literally had no REASON to frame Private Allen by offering him to Makarov to use as a scapegoat. He didn't need to deal with Makarov AT ALL. If the Russians were so pissed off at Americans that even a nose twitch would've set them on the Battle March.....why not just call them up and say:

"Hey Vodka-face! Attack America so I can get new recruits for the army(which I agree with the OP is just retarded reasoning)!! Also I slept with you're MOM.....who is FAT!! >"

Voila. Problem solved. No unnecessary terrorist plot. No framed American Dumbass. Ofcourse, I'm well aware that this would also rob them of the opportunity to add a Scandalous, controversial bit to the game to generate Publicity and turn heads which is the only......no wait that needs to be emphasized....
[HEADING=2]ONLY[/HEADING]
reason they added that segment. NOT for the story. NOT for complexity. For the Publicity.

Do you deny this fact? If you do.....I Pity you.

Your insulting tone is completely and utterly unnecessary.

Insulting tone? What are you...? You mean just for that last line?

......seriously? How the flippin heck is "I pity you" insulting? You're on the Internet, my man! Best not to be such a softie.

Now are you going to refute my claim or not? Or Was that you're way of backing out?

Backing out? No. Ignoring someone who can't stake a claim without calling someone out like that? Yes. But I may as well explain it... again.

It. Is. Fiction. It doesn't have to make perfect sense. Do you nitpick every other story out there like this?

Also, as for the OP? Go read our other posts. He eventually was convinced, it's a good, fun story. It doesn't have to be Lord of the Rings to be good.

And as for the reason for the "No Russian" mission, no shit. Doesn't make it any less enjoyable of a story for me and many others.

EDIT: For the record, I don't care if you or anyone else doesn't like it. I'm just sick and tired of people saying that it makes no sense.