MW3 plot worries

[GrizzlerBorno]

Backing out? No. Ignoring someone who can't stake a claim without calling someone out like that? Yes. But I may as well explain it... again.

It. Is. Fiction. It doesn't have to make perfect sense. Do you nitpick every other story out there like this?

Also, as for the OP? Go read our other posts. He eventually was convinced, it's a good, fun story. It doesn't have to be Lord of the Rings to be good.

And as for the reason for the "No Russian" mission, no shit. Doesn't make it any less enjoyable of a story for me and many others.

EDIT: For the record, I don't care if you or anyone else doesn't like it. I'm just sick and tired of people saying that it makes no sense.

First of all, I kind of apologize if my original post seemed offensive. My intent was not to insult you. My intent was to emphasize my point. That being said, It's unfair to judge me/ignore me because you're tired of hearing what other people may have said because .....well, I didn't say them so....it's unfair. Simple really.

Do I nitpick every story like this? No. But every story ISN'T based in our world. And in OUR world certain rules apply that we ALL know of.

For example, In Mass Effect, when they said "The Krogan Genophage essentially neuters the Krogan race on a Genetic level." I didn't go "What! hey? There's no such thing in real Biology! Foul!" because Mass Effect takes place in a WHOLLY different setting then ours. I have to take the devs' word for it, because I don't know that world as well as they do.

Not the same thing for games based in OUR world. Take Black Ops for example: Did it have a bad story? Not really. But did anyone take it too seriously? No; because we KNOW that there was no guy in the 70's who single-handedly Blew up a Soyuz rocket. We KNOW that there was no mystery Chemical Weapon that was this close to wiping out the Continental US. Same Goes for.....I dunno, Castle Wolfenstien. They could have tried to seriously tell us how Hitler was actually a Gattling-gun toting Mecha......but no-one would take it seriously. No-one would remember the story, but for a chuckle in their past.

In those cases "It's Fiction" doesn't apply, because the World they are based in is NOT fictional. A Modern day Nuclear Super power will not hurl all of it's Military might onto another Nuclear Superpower over a farcical excuse, because of the MAD concept, which I have reason to believe you are well aware of..... You can't change that fact with "But it's fiction", because it is a fact that each and every one of us are well-aware of.

They gave no reason as to why the US, upon detecting a full Russian Naval armada hurtling towards it (or the Brits noticing FOR them), wouldn't launch a barrage of Nuclear missiles that would drag Russia back to the Stone Age. The same would happen to US, of course.

Am I really expected to believe that the in-game Russian Government thought: "Yes! We finally have our excuse! Let's pack all the soldiers in our entire nation and drop them over Washington. THEN once the Rest of Russia burns to the ground in a blaze of Atomic Hell-fire, we can rebuild Russia on occupied US soil using just our soldiers(who are all men btw)"? Because the problem here is NOT that that "doesn't make complete sense". The problem is that......that's not HUMAN. No government composed of Human Beings could POSSIBLY come up with that plan, let alone thinks it's a good idea worth executing!

And if Modern Warfare 2 was based on a planet populated entirely with psychotic, genocidal Howler Monkeys, then I would have absolutely NO problems with the plot. Un/Fortunately, it isn't.

 

[ZeroMachine]

Backing out? No. Ignoring someone who can't stake a claim without calling someone out like that? Yes. But I may as well explain it... again.

It. Is. Fiction. It doesn't have to make perfect sense. Do you nitpick every other story out there like this?

Also, as for the OP? Go read our other posts. He eventually was convinced, it's a good, fun story. It doesn't have to be Lord of the Rings to be good.

And as for the reason for the "No Russian" mission, no shit. Doesn't make it any less enjoyable of a story for me and many others.

EDIT: For the record, I don't care if you or anyone else doesn't like it. I'm just sick and tired of people saying that it makes no sense.

First of all, I kind of apologize if my original post seemed offensive. My intent was not to insult you. My intent was to emphasize my point. That being said, It's unfair to judge me/ignore me because you're tired of hearing what other people may have said because .....well, I didn't say them so....it's unfair. Simple really.

Do I nitpick every story like this? No. But every story ISN'T based in our world. And in OUR world certain rules apply that we ALL know of.

For example, In Mass Effect, when they said "The Krogan Genophage essentially neuters the Krogan race on a Genetic level." I didn't go "What! hey? There's no such thing in real Biology! Foul!" because Mass Effect takes place in a WHOLLY different setting then ours. I have to take the devs' word for it, because I don't know that world as well as they do.

Not the same thing for games based in OUR world. Take Black Ops for example: Did it have a bad story? Not really. But did anyone take it too seriously? No; because we KNOW that there was no guy in the 70's who single-handedly Blew up a Soyuz rocket. We KNOW that there was no mystery Chemical Weapon that was this close to wiping out the Continental US. Same Goes for.....I dunno, Castle Wolfenstien. They could have tried to seriously tell us how Hitler was actually a Gattling-gun toting Mecha......but no-one would take it seriously. No-one would remember the story, but for a chuckle in their past.

In those cases "It's Fiction" doesn't apply, because the World they are based in is NOT fictional. A Modern day Nuclear Super power will not hurl all of it's Military might onto another Nuclear Superpower over a farcical excuse, because of the MAD concept, which I have reason to believe you are well aware of..... You can't change that fact with "But it's fiction", because it is a fact that each and every one of us are well-aware of.

They gave no reason as to why the US, upon detecting a full Russian Naval armada hurtling towards it (or the Brits noticing FOR them), wouldn't launch a barrage of Nuclear missiles that would drag Russia back to the Stone Age. The same would happen to US, of course.

Am I really expected to believe that the in-game Russian Government thought: "Yes! We finally have our excuse! Let's pack all the soldiers in our entire nation and drop them over Washington. THEN once the Rest of Russia burns to the ground in a blaze of Atomic Hell-fire, we can rebuild Russia on occupied US soil using just our soldiers(who are all men btw)"? Because the problem here is NOT that that "doesn't make complete sense". The problem is that......that's not HUMAN. No government composed of Human Beings could POSSIBLY come up with that plan, let alone thinks it's a good idea worth executing!

And if Modern Warfare 2 was based on a planet populated entirely with psychotic, genocidal Howler Monkeys, then I would have absolutely NO problems with the plot. Un/Fortunately, it isn't.

Well, if you can't suspend disbelief to enjoy a good story, that's your business. But to an extent it's unfair to judge MW on that and not Mass Effect. After all, Mass Effect is supposed to be what happens to us only 170 years in the future.

It happens all the time in fiction. We may not know that there was no guy that single handedly destroyed a... whatever it was (never played BlOps). It's called a cover up.

And I already explained why we wouldn't nuke them to all hell. That isn't even suspension of disbelief. Go check out one of my earlier posts.

EDIT: Also, apology accepted, and I apologize if I was being too harsh. I haven't been having the best weekend ever.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

First of all, I kind of apologize if my original post seemed offensive. My intent was not to insult you. My intent was to emphasize my point. That being said, It's unfair to judge me/ignore me because you're tired of hearing what other people may have said because .....well, I didn't say them so....it's unfair. Simple really.

Do I nitpick every story like this? No. But every story ISN'T based in our world. And in OUR world certain rules apply that we ALL know of.

For example, In Mass Effect, when they said "The Krogan Genophage essentially neuters the Krogan race on a Genetic level." I didn't go "What! hey? There's no such thing in real Biology! Foul!" because Mass Effect takes place in a WHOLLY different setting then ours. I have to take the devs' word for it, because I don't know that world as well as they do.

Not the same thing for games based in OUR world. Take Black Ops for example: Did it have a bad story? Not really. But did anyone take it too seriously? No; because we KNOW that there was no guy in the 70's who single-handedly Blew up a Soyuz rocket. We KNOW that there was no mystery Chemical Weapon that was this close to wiping out the Continental US. Same Goes for.....I dunno, Castle Wolfenstien. They could have tried to seriously tell us how Hitler was actually a Gattling-gun toting Mecha......but no-one would take it seriously. No-one would remember the story, but for a chuckle in their past.

In those cases "It's Fiction" doesn't apply, because the World they are based in is NOT fictional. A Modern day Nuclear Super power will not hurl all of it's Military might onto another Nuclear Superpower over a farcical excuse, because of the MAD concept, which I have reason to believe you are well aware of..... You can't change that fact with "But it's fiction", because it is a fact that each and every one of us are well-aware of.

They gave no reason as to why the US, upon detecting a full Russian Naval armada hurtling towards it (or the Brits noticing FOR them), wouldn't launch a barrage of Nuclear missiles that would drag Russia back to the Stone Age. The same would happen to US, of course.

Am I really expected to believe that the in-game Russian Government thought: "Yes! We finally have our excuse! Let's pack all the soldiers in our entire nation and drop them over Washington. THEN once the Rest of Russia burns to the ground in a blaze of Atomic Hell-fire, we can rebuild Russia on occupied US soil using just our soldiers(who are all men btw)"? Because the problem here is NOT that that "doesn't make complete sense". The problem is that......that's not HUMAN. No government composed of Human Beings could POSSIBLY come up with that plan, let alone thinks it's a good idea worth executing!

And if Modern Warfare 2 was based on a planet populated entirely with psychotic, genocidal Howler Monkeys, then I would have absolutely NO problems with the plot. Un/Fortunately, it isn't.

Well, if you can't suspend disbelief to enjoy a good story, that's your business. But to an extent it's unfair to judge MW on that and not Mass Effect. After all, Mass Effect is supposed to be what happens to us only 170 years in the future.

And I already explained why we wouldn't nuke them to all hell. That isn't even suspension of disbelief. Go check out one of my earlier posts.

EDIT: Also, apology accepted, and I apologize if I was being too harsh. I haven't been having the best weekend ever.

Dude, asking me to drop my understanding of how Fundamental Human Rationale works is not "Suspension of Disbelief". No nation on Earth is going to say "We're pissed off at America for some unclarified reason. Let's risk the existence of our entire nation by transporting our Troops half-way across the Globe whilst the rest of our country gets Nuked!"

And by the way Yes, I maintain my theory that that is EXACTLY what America would do, UNLESS something stopped them from doing so. You're claiming that that "something" is MAD. I'm sorry to say that you may not be fully clear on how MAD works. To that end, Please hear me out:

(Halfway through MW2) Half the Russian army invades America. (let's say that) America nukes Russia. All Russians will be dead in an hour (when Nukes land), right?

If Russia launches all of IT'S Nukes: All Americans AND Russian "Occupational force" soldiers in America will be dead in an hour as well. Hence both races, completely wiped clean.

If Russia does NOT launch it's Nukes: the only Russians that WILL survive are the Men of the Occupational force who have almost NO chance of taking over the entire country with NO backup or reinforcements. Hence only Russian race is wiped out.

America has nothing to lose by launching IT'S missiles. It's already under freakin' attack. So it WILL launch it's missiles. They'll just be hoping that Russians aren't Insane enough to actually kill all of THEIR only remaining men in the process.

However, If Russia does not INVADE AT ALL, and instead manages to swallow it's pre-mature, Howler Monkey (poorly written) Ego and instead frame the US for committing Terrorist attacks, it unlocks the ONLY path by which both races, can survive.

And THAT'S how Mutually Assured Destruction Works. It prevents Ground invasion just as effectively as it does Nuclear exchange. And THAT'S why a "Russia invades America" (or replace with any other super power) Situation is not plausible unless you SPECIFICALLY give a Reason why MAD WON'T occur. The only Game I've seen that did that is Red Alert 2 a 2000 C&C game that you may or may not be familiar with. If not, I'd be happy to explain the premise to you.

And 170 years later, in the context of the Entire Milky Way is, I maintain, a COMPLETELY different setting than Near future(in 2007, and only 3 or 4 game years have passed so it's basically like.....this year), Earth. Any way you look at it, Modern Warfare occurs in a slightly different version of OUR world. And in our world, the story makes so little sense that suspension of disbelief just doesn't cut it anymore.

 

[Boaal]

Cold war wanking inbound!

 

[Grubnar]

Gah, I keep assuming 'MW' is MechWarrior.

Yeah, I make the same mistake.

Maybe one day ...

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well yes obviously we need to worry about the plot of this heavily story based game...

Honestly if they would just take it down a notch and do a standard dumb army story it would improve the game immensely.

 

[Lord Penney]

If we stop complaining about terrible plots, they will become the norm. I don't want that.

My sentiments exactly.

I've read everything that kotaku have spoiled about the plot (I was weak!) and I have to say, there are several major plot developments that I hate.
They seem to divert from what I loved about MW1(and to an extent, MW2)'s story, the game was (like CoD1 and CoD2) split in to different parts; in one you play a small, stealthy force of badasses (SAS); in the other you play an unstoppable army of "oo-rah!" action heroes.

As a side note, there is one plot hole that I don't get. From what I understand in MW1, the main Russian government (the loyalist I believe) wanted to help the western forces, but suddenly in MW2, it turns out that the Zakhaev was a hero to this government and convinced them to attack the US. At what point were the ultanationalists voted into government? and where did all the good Russians go? (and I'm not asking about Nikolai sine I understand he was an ultranationalist who defected as an informant)

 

[ultrachicken]

You're wrong.

Dead wrong.

So, so, dead wrong.

I posted this in another thread and have yet to get any sort of real response to it. So I think whenever I see people who don't understand the story to Modern Warfare 2 and think it's riddled with plot holes, I'll just leave this for them...

While reading these, please consider if you would bash the story if it was in another genre, like sci-fi or fantasy.

If the story doesn't at least make more sense to you after this, I give up.

Spoiler: Reason for the War

After Modern Warfare 1, Ultranationalists took over Russia. Zakhaev is labeled a martyr, and the controlling party in Russia is just waiting for a reason to attack the United States.

They find it. Makarov, one of Zakhaev's lieutenants, leads an attack on a Russian airport. A CIA agent who is attempting to take Makarov down from the inside is found out, killed, and framed for the attack- making it seem at a glance like the entire thing was funded by the US. The Ultranationalists jump at this opportunity and attack the States. Why didn't they investigate further? Most likely, they put Makarov up to it. The U.Nationalists hated America, so they had them framed.

Sure, it isn't realistic- but it isn't supposed to be super realistic. It's supposed to make sense and make for a good war plot. Whether or not it's good is up to the player- but it definitely makes sense.

Spoiler: Why they launch a Naval assault in Modern Warfare 3

It can be assumed that their ships are already there. There would most likely be ships at sea to help supply the air assault on Washington DC and the surrounding area in Modern Warfare 2. Therefore, it is simply a matter of shifting their forces north. Why New York? Why the hell not? It's another morale hit.

As for why they sent ships for the initial assault? They probably had them their, or at least close by, to begin with. As I said, the U.Nationalists wanted the US dead, so it was probably all part of the plan.

Spoiler: Why Shepard turned on MacTavish and his team

Let's start with the fact that he wouldn't be making any enemies if his plan had worked. 141's operation, the one he was running, was a covert op- one that all but the most privileged people didn't even know about. He attempted to have all of them killed to cover up the fact that he was the one to rat out the undercover CIA agent and cause the war. Why did he do that?

At the time of the story (and really, around now) we don't exactly have a huge amount of people willing to go to war. But, if we were attacked on our own shores, those numbers would go up exponentially. Sheppard believed our army, given those circumstances, would eventually dwarf Russia and we would become a force to be feared in the world. He felt that, with this push, his army could become the most powerful the world had ever imagined, and he could do anything with it.

Now... why did he do it all?

Because he was insane. He was in charge during the Op in Modern Warfare 1 to take down Khaled Al-Asad. And you know how that ended- the nuke. Sheppard lost thousands upon thousands of men from both the explosion and the battles around it. It was devastating. It took it's toll on him, and he eventually concocted his insane plan.

So yeah. He's that type of villain. Not super realistic, but again... it doesn't have to be.

To add too my original post.

Spoiler: How the remnants of 141 are a threat

They know that Makarov is the one to blame on the attack on the Russian airport, and if they hunt him down and capture him and extract information from him, they can get the proof they need and end the war.

I'm not worried about the plot at all. And chances are, it won't be "Russia vs the World", it'll be "Russia vs the United States". There was no hinting to other countries getting involved. If they do, though, they'll probably not have it all against Russia.

None of that explains why everyone is cool with the fact that Captain Price launched a nuke at America.

 

[XMark]

I'll forgive the ridiculous leaps of logic necessary to understand the reasoning behind the big war in MW2. Because it's necessary for the game to happen. Realistically World War 3 isn't going to happen PERIOD. The world is way too interconnected for any conflict to reach that scale. If you want a game where a full-scale war happens on US soil with an equally powerful foreign power, you're going to have to accept some kind of contrived and unrealistic scenario that brings that conflict into being.

 

[Geekosaurus]

Wait - where are we getting this from? Or is it all just wild speculation?

 

[puffy786]

Russia did it, The End.

And Glorious US/Britain killed the bad guys responsible for all of it and save the day!
Really, would anyone believe if something other than that happens? I wish there was a twist where the bad guys succeed and destroy the entire world.

 

[puffy786]

Russia, and North Korea are the biggest threats in the world right now.

Perhaps I am just reading this wrong, but are you honestly putting Russia on a par with North Kore?

Not on par, no Russia is the only country that could actually launch an invasion against the US, Korea is a bigger issue over all because they have show their disregard for the UN and launched attacks against South Korea, while also having a nuclear arsenal of unknown size

Russia could but they lack the funds to win. Maybe if they were still soviet but now they are capitalist and lack both the political, physical power, and lack a motive for invading any countries.

 

[pvaglueman123]

To quote Yhatzee out of context

COD games in a nutshell

"Go there, keep running, Take Cover, Not there your getting shot, there, shoot that guy, not him he's on your side, can't you tell he's wearing a slightly different hat, Quick pick up that grenade and throw it back, i don't know over there somwhere, oh there, see if you'd thrown it sooner you wouldn't be dead you stupid c***"

I think your looking way too much into this, i don't question the plot of the next Sonic game because it turns out Knuckles got tricked by Eggman and Amy got kidnapped again.

Maybe the CoD games arn't even linked in any way, i watched sombody play MW1 and MW2 and i didn't undeerstand what was going on in either of them because too many things were exploding.

 

[WanderingFool]

I remember an article that was released that basically told the whole plot of MW3.

Spoiler: while it could be false, still condsider it possibly true.

The Ultranationalist movement from the first and second MW game basically controls Russia, and one of the missions actually has you play as part of the Russian presidents service detail as Markovs men attack, taking the president and his daughter hostage to launch nukes.

This basically means that the Russian Government isnt really in complete control, Markov is. So its all really Markovs doing, which was started in MW1 with his mentor figure, Zakhaev.

 

[Jake0fTrades]

snip

Finally, someone here who isn't complaining. The only thing that bothers me is that Germany is supposed to be involved in this war too. Can they at least be on our side this time? We don't need to make the Germans the bad guys again, they're still paying for WW2.