My 24 hour Zelda review

[CritialGaming]

"first legend of Zelda game where you are given a sword and no proper explanation of anything else" I am assuming you started playing Zelda at Ocarina of time then

ummm please read my post again, I clearly state that this is a return to form where you are given a sword and are told to go explore the world without a proper explanation.[/quote]

But you aren't given a sword in BotW.

 

[go-10]

"first legend of Zelda game where you are given a sword and no proper explanation of anything else" I am assuming you started playing Zelda at Ocarina of time then

ummm please read my post again, I clearly state that this is a return to form where you are given a sword and are told to go explore the world without a proper explanation.

But you aren't given a sword in BotW.[/quote]

are we really going to have to go into the fine detail of things? The idea is the same, no proper explanation just go out and explore... there are slight hints of a story in BotW but like the first game this isn't the main focus.

 

[sageoftruth]

I was certainly feeling cautious about this one, considering how open world it was. When Giant Bomb mentioned that there would be a lot of tower climbing, I thought, "Oh crap! Zelda got Ubisofted!" It looks like this game may not be my cup of tea.

I have played and enjoyed Don't Starve with its breakable weapons. I think this weapon durability problem in Breath of the Wild could be lessened somewhat if they didn't break randomly. In Don't Starve, there was a percentage meter indicating how much usage was left in all your equipment. It wouldn't have to be an actual number. Perhaps the could would start to flash red as it neared breakage.

 

[CritialGaming]

I was certainly feeling cautious about this one, considering how open world it was. When Giant Bomb mentioned that there would be a lot of tower climbing, I thought, "Oh crap! Zelda got Ubisofted!" It looks like this game may not be my cup of tea.

I have played and enjoyed Don't Starve with its breakable weapons. I think this weapon durability problem in Breath of the Wild could be lessened somewhat if they didn't break randomly. In Don't Starve, there was a percentage meter indicating how much usage was left in all your equipment. It wouldn't have to be an actual number. Perhaps the weapon would start to flash red as it neared breakage.

To be fair, the game does warn you with a message "Your X-weapon/shield/bow is about to break" before it actually breaks, but when you see this message you can probably hit something two or three more times before it breaks.

My problem isn't the fact that weapons in the game break, it's how fast they break. A robot sword will break in about 20 or so swings, depending on what you are fighting/slash hitting. So to put that into context, you can defeat about 7-8 basic enemies with that, and then you're done.

While I get that the developers basically did this to encourage people to try a bunch of different things when it comes to using the tools in your arsenal. I find it more restricting. I don't want to use my bow, I wanna fight up close and personal. I don't wanna use bombs, or special ammo, or stealth. I wanna run in and fuck shit up. If you are going to get me all these options then let me pick the options I WANT, don't force me into stuff I don't enjoy.

When you force players to use things, you aren't giving them options, you are forcing the player to do things a certain way. In a game about freedom, this is actually a very limiting thing, because you aren't free at all. You can outfit Link in Knight armor and give him a badass shield, and a badass sword. But ultimately you don't let players go all in on a specific thing. The best early armor in the game turns out to be the Impa Stealth set, because for some reason the stealth attacks on enemies don't seem to break the weapons as fast (though they still break). The aforementioned Knight set, just made Link heavy and puts extra strain on the stamina meter when trying to climb and move around the world. It's pointless.

Freedom feels like an illusion here. And that's what really drove me crazy about the game.

 

[CritialGaming]

Dark Souls did weapon durability pretty well, but I think it could be taken a step further.

How about the durability be dependent on weapon material, and what type of material it comes into contact with...and at what kind of force. You could still of course have a durability statistic and maybe the kind of wear on the weapon will affect its effectiveness to varying degrees based on the above.


Repair would be easy and accessible though. Could be done at every save, or at a hub center like SoulsBorne.

 

[CritialGaming]

Dark Souls did weapon durability pretty well, but I think it could be taken a step further.

How about the durability be dependent on weapon material, and what type of material it comes into contact with...and at what kind of force. You could still of course have a durability statistic and maybe the kind of wear on the weapon will affect its effectiveness to varying degrees based on the above.


Repair would be easy and accessible though. Could be done at every save, or at a hub center like SoulsBorne.

Oh for sure yeah. Look there are a lot of ways they could have handled it. And to be fair, the system is something that could easily be fixed with a patch, so it is a fixable issue.

And for all my gripes I'm still playing the game, mostly because there aint shit else to play on the Switch atm.

 

[Athennesi]

It makes zero sense they went with these "survival elements" in this game. I love these things when they fit the setting and direction of the game...Stalker series, even modded Fallout III.
But here it seems simply out of place and obstructs gameplay.

 

[Drathnoxis]

I agree that Zelda is definitely not for me.

Zelda encompasses quite a large variety of experiences, from the melancholy groundhog's day loop that is Majora's Mask, to the feel good, swash buckling adventure that is Wind Waker, to the top down, secret packed 2D games (Link's Awakening's really good). You shouldn't determine that the series isn't for you after just playing one.

Dark Souls did weapon durability pretty well, but I think it could be taken a step further.

How about the durability be dependent on weapon material, and what type of material it comes into contact with...and at what kind of force. You could still of course have a durability statistic and maybe the kind of wear on the weapon will affect its effectiveness to varying degrees based on the above.


Repair would be easy and accessible though. Could be done at every save, or at a hub center like SoulsBorne.

Ugh, no. The last thing item durability needs is more layers of pointless realism. It's enough of a chore to have to run back to the blacksmith because you forgot to click the "repair weapon" button last time you were there, without needing to have a spreadsheet open to figure out how fast your weapon is wearing out. I don't want Zelda(or Dark Souls, whatever) to be bloody Dwarf Fortress.

No, what weapon durability would need is a way to make either the act of repairing or losing your weapon fun and engaging, and not simply a button that you have to go and click every now and again or be inconvenienced. I don't know how that could be done, or if it's even possible.

The only way I can think of would be to make it part of the challenge of resource management, where the player would have to choose between repairing their weapon or doing something else. The game probably couldn't have too much of a combat focus or the choice would be obvious, and the game would have to be challenging enough that every little decision mattered. Probably a roguelike or strategy game would work best. But really, it could be substituted for any number of choices and remain equally engaging.

 

[saluraropicrusa]

i've been playing the game for the past couple days and i have to say, for the most part, i agree.

to me it feels like this game is trying very hard to be some kind of rpg, which is not at all what i want from a Zelda game. i don't dislike it (there are elements i think are great; i really appreciate the sense of exploration, even if the world's a bit barren, i love the way horse taming works, i enjoy some elements of hunting (and that you can ride deer, that's really cool), and the visuals are gorgeous. i also quite like the characters so far). thing is, its style just doesn't fit what i appreciate/enjoy out of a Zelda game.

i hate weapon durability in games. it always strikes me as pointless busywork... but at least in, say, earlier Bethesda rpgs (Fallout 3 (and by extension New Vegas), Oblivion) you could repair broken weapons. you get so many different types of ingredients, would it be so hard to let us use something to fix a broken sword or bow we really like? just because i favor a certain weapon doesn't mean i'm not going to give other weapon types a try. but with this system, i'm not sure i'm even going to bother looking for the "legendary" items, since i'll either never use them or they'll just break, making finding them pointless.

i'd enjoy the combat more if fewer enemies were one-hit-killing me. i know i'm not very good at video games but this experience has been super frustrating to me because i keep getting one- or two-shotted by enemies that aren't even big or unique/special (or, even worse, they hit me and i roll down a hill to my death). it's really getting to me, especially when i keep getting attacked while i'm just trying to explore. one of the things i enjoy about the Zelda games i love is that the combat isn't as challenging as the puzzles; to me it sort of takes a back seat to the sense of exploration/discovery and puzzle-solving. i don't need (or particularly want) difficult combat in a Zelda game--especially when it feels more frustrating and unfair than truly challenging.

the arc on arrows has made hitting targets way harder than it needs to be. i know it's more realistic but i really wish the trajectory was straight, at least for further than it currently is. i wanna be a stealthy archer like i was in Skyrim now that stealth is a thing, but i can't hit anything at a respectable distance.

oh, and i miss the unique items. even if they didn't necessarily have uses outside dungeons. i'm sad to see them go.

(but at least i get a horse named beef, i guess)

 

[CritialGaming]

I agree that Zelda is definitely not for me.

Zelda encompasses quite a large variety of experiences, from the melancholy groundhog's day loop that is Majora's Mask, to the feel good, swash buckling adventure that is Wind Waker, to the top down, secret packed 2D games (Link's Awakening's really good). You shouldn't determine that the series isn't for you after just playing one.

Dark Souls did weapon durability pretty well, but I think it could be taken a step further.

How about the durability be dependent on weapon material, and what type of material it comes into contact with...and at what kind of force. You could still of course have a durability statistic and maybe the kind of wear on the weapon will affect its effectiveness to varying degrees based on the above.


Repair would be easy and accessible though. Could be done at every save, or at a hub center like SoulsBorne.

Ugh, no. The last thing item durability needs is more layers of pointless realism. It's enough of a chore to have to run back to the blacksmith because you forgot to click the "repair weapon" button last time you were there, without needing to have a spreadsheet open to figure out how fast your weapon is wearing out. I don't want Zelda(or Dark Souls, whatever) to be bloody Dwarf Fortress.

No, what weapon durability would need is a way to make either the act of repairing or losing your weapon fun and engaging, and not simply a button that you have to go and click every now and again or be inconvenienced. I don't know how that could be done, or if it's even possible.

The only way I can think of would be to make it part of the challenge of resource management, where the player would have to choose between repairing their weapon or doing something else. The game probably couldn't have too much of a combat focus or the choice would be obvious, and the game would have to be challenging enough that every little decision mattered. Probably a roguelike or strategy game would work best. But really, it could be substituted for any number of choices and remain equally engaging.

It sounds like that would be making it even more complicated. There is IMO nothing "fun" about losing or repairing weapons; their degradation is simply another thread of strategy, and the remedy should be made as simple as possible, and certainly not made more arbitrarily difficult or complicated through some randomly connected task or choice.

All I said was that weapons should be variably affected by different things in the environment. Since materials-based rendering is becoming more common, how about have that tie into gameplay and strategy as well. Also not that the player has to manually calculate everything about it. The game can do that perfectly well for the player via stats.

 

[CritialGaming]

I think Jim Sterling said it best in his last episode. Zelda is a game that it trying its best to get in the players way of having fun. Did you just get a cool new sword? Fuck you, it's gonna break ten minutes later. Trying to climb this mountain? Got a stamina buff, special armor, and food? Fuck you, it's gonna rain. Wanna keep track of the big fuck off guardian trying to kill you? Fuck you, there is no enemy lock on.

For everything that's fun about the game, there is another system in place to simply fucking annoy you. That's the biggest problem, and frankly I called it a week before the game came out and all these reviews were giving it a perfect score. While a 10/10 might be fine, it disturbed me that absolutely NONE of these interfering systems were even mentioned. Like everyone had such a Zelda boner that they just ignored the obvious problems with the damn thing.

 

[Yoshi178]

Wanna keep track of the big fuck off guardian trying to kill you? Fuck you, there is no enemy lock on.

lolwut? yes there is.

you were probably standing miles away from the enemy. you can definitely z target though.

 

[CritialGaming]

Wanna keep track of the big fuck off guardian trying to kill you? Fuck you, there is no enemy lock on.

lolwut? yes there is.

you were probably standing miles away from the enemy. you can definitely z target though.

*sigh* yes if you HOLD the button down, you will track an enemy. But it isn't a click and lock. You sacrifice utility and mobility to hold that button down.

 

[Drathnoxis]

It sounds like that would be making it even more complicated. There is IMO nothing "fun" about losing or repairing weapons; their degradation is simply another thread of strategy, and the remedy should be made as simple as possible, and certainly not made more arbitrarily difficult or complicated through some randomly connected task or choice.

All I said was that weapons should be variably affected by different things in the environment. Since materials-based rendering is becoming more common, how about have that tie into gameplay and strategy as well. Also not that the player has to manually calculate everything about it. The game can do that perfectly well for the player via stats.

If there isn't anything fun or interesting about losing or repairing weapons there isn't any point in having a weapon degradation system. If repairing a weapon only requires a pittance of payment and a click of a button then it isn't an interesting choice, and resource management is only fun if resources are very limited.

If the game does all the calculations and boils it all down to a stat, there isn't any point to anything you said because Dark Souls already has varying durability for different weapons. If the player does have to make choices about it then they need to be conscious about the material of their weapon, material of what it's hitting, and how they are hitting it; then the player needs to know how all the different materials interact and how the different kinds of force impacts each material and suddenly you're playing Dwarf Fortress. If the player doesn't want to learn all of that then they are going to be penalized for playing sub optimally. Weapon degradation isn't fun, all this will do is make the chore more complicated.

 

[CaitSeith]

It sounds like that would be making it even more complicated. There is IMO nothing "fun" about losing or repairing weapons; their degradation is simply another thread of strategy, and the remedy should be made as simple as possible, and certainly not made more arbitrarily difficult or complicated through some randomly connected task or choice.

All I said was that weapons should be variably affected by different things in the environment. Since materials-based rendering is becoming more common, how about have that tie into gameplay and strategy as well. Also not that the player has to manually calculate everything about it. The game can do that perfectly well for the player via stats.

If there isn't anything fun or interesting about losing or repairing weapons there isn't any point in having a weapon degradation system. If repairing a weapon only requires a pittance of payment and a click of a button then it isn't an interesting choice, and resource management is only fun if resources are very limited.

If the game does all the calculations and boils it all down to a stat, there isn't any point to anything you said because Dark Souls already has varying durability for different weapons. If the player does have to make choices about it then they need to be conscious about the material of their weapon, material of what it's hitting, and how they are hitting it; then the player needs to know how all the different materials interact and how the different kinds of force impacts each material and suddenly you're playing Dwarf Fortress. If the player doesn't want to learn all of that then they are going to be penalized for playing sub optimally. Weapon degradation isn't fun, all this will do is make the chore more complicated.

The interesting stuff about breaking weapons in Zelda is that the strike when it happens counts as critical hit. You can also throw melee weapons at the enemies, and counts as critical if it shatters too.

 

[CritialGaming]

It sounds like that would be making it even more complicated. There is IMO nothing "fun" about losing or repairing weapons; their degradation is simply another thread of strategy, and the remedy should be made as simple as possible, and certainly not made more arbitrarily difficult or complicated through some randomly connected task or choice.

All I said was that weapons should be variably affected by different things in the environment. Since materials-based rendering is becoming more common, how about have that tie into gameplay and strategy as well. Also not that the player has to manually calculate everything about it. The game can do that perfectly well for the player via stats.

If there isn't anything fun or interesting about losing or repairing weapons there isn't any point in having a weapon degradation system. If repairing a weapon only requires a pittance of payment and a click of a button then it isn't an interesting choice, and resource management is only fun if resources are very limited.

If the game does all the calculations and boils it all down to a stat, there isn't any point to anything you said because Dark Souls already has varying durability for different weapons. If the player does have to make choices about it then they need to be conscious about the material of their weapon, material of what it's hitting, and how they are hitting it; then the player needs to know how all the different materials interact and how the different kinds of force impacts each material and suddenly you're playing Dwarf Fortress. If the player doesn't want to learn all of that then they are going to be penalized for playing sub optimally. Weapon degradation isn't fun, all this will do is make the chore more complicated.

All it takes is a bit of logical deduction to know that hitting a concrete wall or someone's steel shield over and over with a curved sword or spear will wear it down faster than hitting soft flesh or foliage. Dark Souls already did some of this with Lost Izalith lava degrading gear quicker, as well as Demon's Souls on certain enemies in Stonefang Tunnel, so adding another layer to that still doesn't even approach Dwarf Fortress. It would simply add another element of strategy to how tactical and conservatively you want to use certain weapons.

For example, if you just got a new Uchigatana blade you wouldn't want to waste its durability on rock beasts or heavily armored giants. No, you'd go to your Smough Hammer or Great Lord great sword and save the Uchi for soft squishy foes with high bleedout.

There's no point in making repairs complicated since there's no logical way of making a task like that fun. Perhaps make it a little more interactive, like using the track pad on DS4 to hone a blade on a grindstone, or tap it on certain highlighted spots of damaged armor to pound out dents, etc. Tough to say to what extent weapon/armor repair could work as a meta game.

 

[Drathnoxis]

All it takes is a bit of logical deduction to know that hitting a concrete wall or someone's steel shield over and over with a curved sword or spear will wear it down faster than hitting soft flesh or foliage. Dark Souls already did some of this with Lost Izalith lava degrading gear quicker, as well as Demon's Souls on certain enemies in Stonefang Tunnel, so adding another layer to that still doesn't even approach Dwarf Fortress. It would simply add another element of strategy to how tactical and conservatively you want to use certain weapons.

For example, if you just got a new Uchigatana blade you wouldn't want to waste its durability on rock beasts or heavily armored giants. No, you'd go to your Smough Hammer or Great Lord great sword and save the Uchi for soft squishy foes with high bleedout.

There's no point in making repairs complicated since there's no logical way of making a task like that fun. Perhaps make it a little more interactive, like using the track pad on DS4 to hone a blade on a grindstone, or tap it on certain highlighted spots of damaged armor, etc.

I never said make it complicated or make it a minigame, I said make it fun. It would take some really out of the box thinking for that.

I thought you meant "materials" as in copper vs steel vs silver vs etc. Still adding more ways to wear out your weapon faster is basically all punishment, it doesn't stop weapon repair from being a chore that you have to do once in a while. Honestly, weapon break critical hits mentioned above sounds like a step in the right direction, but I'm not sure it'd be enough.

It takes too long to upgrade multiple weapons in DS and the gulf between upgraded and non-upgraded is big enough that going back to bonfire would always be the less tedious option.

 

[Irwin126]

I'm not going to change your mind about the game and you're not going to change mine so let's just agree to disagree and move on

Someone Agreeing to disagreeing on the internet?
That's a rare sight.