My Only Problem with Reach

[Naota_391]

Also, don't play First Person Shooters.

The only real conclusion I can draw here is that you are, for whatever reason, forcing yourself upon a genre that you don't actually like. To say that the levels in Reach, or even Halo 3, lacked polish is asinine at best. I just...

No, I'm not getting into this. Find a different genre. You're probably better suited to sandbox games. Red Faction: Guerilla is fun. Red Dead Redemption. Play those.

 

[Naota_391]

Oh, Jesus. I'm so angry. Ugh. I'm rage quitting.

Peace. Peace on your family, on your home, and down your throat. PEACE.

 

[Imp Poster]

Things that bug me about Reach, single campaign.

1) Why do they give my that puny pistol at the start of a chapter/cutscene to next mission? Why can't I have the weapons that I ended up with?

2) After a battle, I don't know if it is just me but, all my guns have low ammo so I need to switch them out. I go through the whole battlefield looking at guns to pick up. I feel like a girl at a clothing store and probably look it too. Why can't they just have a general ammo box?

 

[DarkSoldier84]

My problem with Halo: Reach is that Jun falls through a plot hole. You see how Jorge, Kat, Carter, Emile, and Six go down, but Jun just disappears after evacuating from Sword Base. Developer commentary says he's still alive, but that's not revealed in-game.

He's in the book "ghosts of onyx"
him haysley and couple of other Spartans are on the planet onyx that book is canon and is connected with reach and halo 3

If you don't read the tie-in novels (like me) then you'd never know. An audio clip at the beginning of the next mission where Jun calls you and says he's safe with Halsey on whatever ship's evacuating her and he'll see you after action would have been a nice touch.

 

[Naota_391]

Things that bug me about Reach, single campaign.

1) Why do they give my that puny pistol at the start of a chapter/cutscene to next mission? Why can't I have the weapons that I ended up with?

2) After a battle, I don't know if it is just me but, all my guns have low ammo so I need to switch them out. I go through the whole battlefield looking at guns to pick up. I feel like a girl at a clothing store and probably look it too. Why can't they just have a general ammo box?

1) They start you with those guns because that's what is standard issue.

2) It would have made the game too easy. For once, you are playing in a story where you are not destined to win. For once, Bungie shows the Covenant to be a force to be reckoned with, rather than a bunch of weak aliens that can be taken out relatively easily. They gave the covenant an awesome AI boost that makes them smarter, and they make it so that they're stronger than the past Halo games have shown them to be before. If you want to win this game, you've got to play smarter. Be more conservative with ammo, have more tactics in mind when facing a large group, and be ready to have to pick up other weapons lying around.

You know, adaptability. I personally fully enjoyed all of these things. It was a great challenge.

 

[Diver Down]

JO

I agree. I mean, sure I got sad, but I could have been WAY more impacted by each character's actions if the game was a bit longer and you had more time to get to know the members of Noble Team. The closest they get to good development is Jorge, and they kill him off first! But you knew the most about him; there was some animosity between him and Emile and it shows you how much he cares for the Planet Reach. Just that fact alone ties him to the culture of the planet, and gives him some depth. Ironically, Kat, who you spend the most time with on missions, is not as developed as Jorge. All you really know about her is that she lost an arm doing something, she's close to Carter and she's the computer lady of the group.

so, in conclusion; I agree, but Jorge almost got there.

Yeah I'm right about where you are, but honestly I think Jorge just barely did get there.

Maybe not if I had read the books and knew who Halsey was so was all happy when Jorge called her "mum".

But like your post said he did get the most development. On top of that he was usually the most useful actually in battle compared to everyone else for me.

Exactly.

I feel like the battle leading up to the cutscene where sacrifices himself could have used a few more explosions, purely for a build of suspense. The scene just seemed blatantly frank and weird. "OK, killed the Zealots...what's that, you have to activate it manually now? So you're going to die, all right."

Yeah, he's a beastly A.I. companion.

 

[Mikeyfell]

....was that none of the characters were developed.


EDIT:
This was not only a problem with Reach, just FPSs in general.
No, I miss Jorge too.
No, I was not expecting some deep characters, I'm just sad that they couldn't have been more developed.
How in anyway was Kat's death stupid? A sniper took her out from a place impossible to predict.

I thought there was a decent amount of Character development (FOR AN FPS)
the problem is that Noble 6 is a silent protagonist
she, or he only says "Yes sir" "What's the good news?" "I have it" and "I'm on the gun"
If They Gave 6 a personality instead of making 6 a blank slate for you to project on there would have been far more opportunity for character development.

I was just happy that they all had individual personalities.
It's not something you see with FPS games a lot (or ever)
Cortana in Halo and SOAP MW2 like you said, most of the cast of Half Life 2 as well, but those are the only ones I've ever seen.

individual personalities and stellar voice work (for an FPS, just awesome for a game) put them all in the top 10 FPS characters ever, for me.

the problem I had with Kat's death, all of them in fact was that they happened in the wrong order.

Jorge's death was appropriate to set a dark tone over the story
Kat's death was stupid. Kat was my favorite Character and she got the most unheroic death ever. just a random sniper shot to the head. it could have just as easily been Emile and should have been.
Jun actually does die. if you beat the last mission on Legendary you can find his body on the "lone Wolf" mission.
Carter's death was fine. not as if you couldn't see that coming from a mile away though.
Emile....I hated Emile. he was the least characterized and the least helpful and he got to beat an Elite to death with his bare hands for his dying action. he didn't deserve an awesome death. especially after not helping AT ALL for the entire last mission.

it would have been better if Emile got shot and Kat came with you on the last mission.
because she had a DMR and she could have HELPED me take out some elites on the last mission.

 

[Mikeyfell]

Also, don't play First Person Shooters.

The only real conclusion I can draw here is that you are, for whatever reason, forcing yourself upon a genre that you don't actually like. To say that the levels in Reach, or even Halo 3, lacked polish is asinine at best. I just...

No, I'm not getting into this. Find a different genre. You're probably better suited to sandbox games. Red Faction: Guerilla is fun. Red Dead Redemption. Play those.

games should do what they do well. but they shouldn't compromise the single player or the story to do so.
Halo's 1 through 3 had really short shrift story modes that you could plow through in 8 or 9 hours, ODST in 5 or 6

Reach had a better story that takes about 18 hours and the gun play is better than it was in any of the other games.

but FPS developers don't seem to care about anything but their stupid online multyplayer,
and they leave single player hanging

 

[Naota_391]

Also, don't play First Person Shooters.

The only real conclusion I can draw here is that you are, for whatever reason, forcing yourself upon a genre that you don't actually like. To say that the levels in Reach, or even Halo 3, lacked polish is asinine at best. I just...

No, I'm not getting into this. Find a different genre. You're probably better suited to sandbox games. Red Faction: Guerilla is fun. Red Dead Redemption. Play those.

games should do what they do well. but they shouldn't compromise the single player or the story to do so.
Halo's 1 through 3 had really short shrift story modes that you could plow through in 8 or 9 hours, ODST in 5 or 6

Reach had a better story that takes about 18 hours and the gun play is better than it was in any of the other games.

but FPS developers don't seem to care about anything but their stupid online multyplayer,
and they leave single player hanging

I think Halo: Reach took what the franchise has always done well, or tried to do well, and took it all to a higher level. Every part of this package seems full polished and ready for use. It's incredibly unique in that it literally has something for everyone who is even remotely interested in Halo, or even just in first person shooters.

It's got a great, compelling story for people to play through if you're into the fiction. It's got some of the most remarkable multiplayer for those with a competitive edge, and there is a TON of modes and game types to sink your teeth into. Not to mention a large, thriving community that will always be there. If you're looking for more of a team effort style of play, there's co-op and firefight (local and online). The Halo games have been the only reason I'm still interested in LAN on a console. If you're the creative type for machinema or creating levels, Forge is great and there are all types of settings you can change for creating custom games.

I don't know, man. There's a lot of value in this game. If there was ever a game worth $60, I'd say that this one has to be it.

 

[IBlackKiteI]

Well, Halo games have never been good at making you like their characters.

Lies, everyone loved johnson

Yeah...ten years ago.

 

[Miles Tormani]

@Whomever mentioned Cat's death - It was the massive EMP shockwave from the nearby plasma impact that disrupted and torn down the shield network power in the armor for a time. She got shot just moments after running from the explosion with the others. There was no time to try to fix her shields, allow them time to regenerate, etc. A single needle from a needle gun in the books is enough to stab through metal thinner than general vehicle armor and human flesh at the same time with little effort. If it had been the original needler gun, and not the rifle version, her head would have just.. exploded instead.

Spoiler: Should probably start spoiler tagging these like everyone else has.

Just moments is incorrect. After the explosion, they had time to get to an elevator, ride said (still working despite the suggested EMP) elevator down from the top of the huge ONI building to ground level, put on her helmet, yell at Carter, and then get shot mid-sentence.

I'm pretty sure that's more than a few moments, and more than enough time for shields to regenerate fully.

Even without all that other stuff. They rode down an elevator from the top of a building that reached above the clouds, to ground level. That alone is plenty of time for shield regeneration. Besides, the elevator definitely would've been rendered non-functional if there was an EMP in the first place.

 

[RUINER ACTUAL]

It's difficult to develop characters in a single campaign. I don't really see them as needing attachment. They are more like story pieces that change the tone of the story. Jorge made you feel tough and confident, and made you understand the sacrifices of the war. Kat brought comfort, as most female characters do, and her death signified the end of this comfort. Carter was a leader who would do anything to make sure the mission was accomplished, and he did. Emile showed the desperation of humans vs. covenant. I don't think you were suppose to get attached to the characters.

 

[The Rockerfly]

The worst bit is that all the time, all they are talking about is galactic law

Look game developers, I don't know what you have done to your writers but galactic law is about the single most uninteresting lines of dialogue in any of your games. If someone does start talking about galactic law, the characters can use their personalities which will show the player they have more depth and avoid a boring cut scene

I can't remember the last FPS I've played where the main character actually had a personality, Half life maybe but only because he's a good guy, a scientist and everyone's monkey.

I've not got any confirmed ideas but I think the problem lies in with poor communication within the developer. The voice actors, writers and animators need to be in the same room when writing up dialogue, have a separate writer for each character, knowing what role that character plays due to the animators and then seeing what the voice actor can do to improve the quality

 

[Canid117]

Thanks for the spoiler warning by the way

 

[ShadowsofHope]

@Whomever mentioned Cat's death - It was the massive EMP shockwave from the nearby plasma impact that disrupted and torn down the shield network power in the armor for a time. She got shot just moments after running from the explosion with the others. There was no time to try to fix her shields, allow them time to regenerate, etc. A single needle from a needle gun in the books is enough to stab through metal thinner than general vehicle armor and human flesh at the same time with little effort. If it had been the original needler gun, and not the rifle version, her head would have just.. exploded instead.

Spoiler: Should probably start spoiler tagging these like everyone else has.

Just moments is incorrect. After the explosion, they had time to get to an elevator, ride said (still working despite the suggested EMP) elevator down from the top of the huge ONI building to ground level, put on her helmet, yell at Carter, and then get shot mid-sentence.

I'm pretty sure that's more than a few moments, and more than enough time for shields to regenerate fully.

Even without all that other stuff. They rode down an elevator from the top of a building that reached above the clouds, to ground level. That alone is plenty of time for shield regeneration. Besides, the elevator definitely would've been rendered non-functional if there was an EMP in the first place.

Damned, forgot the spoiler, sorry. Though I really can't say either way about the situation. Has Bungie said anything, or? *Shrug*

Does it really matter either way in said case, on second thought? It was a symbolic death to show to easily, quickly, and randomly anyone could have died on Reach, or the war in general. And how lucky anyone remaining alive actually is. That was the real purpose behind the scene.

 

[Miles Tormani]

Does it really matter either way in said case, on second thought? It was a symbolic death to show to easily, quickly, and randomly anyone could have died on Reach, or the war in general. And how lucky anyone remaining alive actually is. That was the real purpose behind the scene.

It shouldn't matter. I know what the point of the scene is, and I applaud the effort.

Spoiler: More real spoilery stuff.

The problem for me is that the exact cause of death threw me out of the experience, because intimate knowledge with the guns, especially at that point in the game, caused me to get so caught up with the disconnect between game mechanics and that one singular cutscene that it was hard to get back into the experience for awhile. Especially since game mechanics kicked in for any other "action" cutscene, like the aforementioned "Emile and Six jump out of Pelican" scene.

The real problem, however, lies in the fact that we even have to argue about it in the first place. It doesn't matter if people can come up with rationalizations. If the player has to think about why a single Needle Rifle round was enough to kill Kat, the cutscene has failed to serve its purpose.

The solution, in my opinion, would've been to use a different weapon that is capable of one-hit-kills. Have the Elite use a stolen sniper rifle. Use a plasma launcher. Hell, have a fucking cameo of the beam rifle. No one would think about whether her shields were up, whether there was some EMP, or anything. They would see Kat getting abruptly killed by a weapon that can kill someone abruptly, and not question a damn thing. Then they could take in the actual scene for what it's supposed to be.

EDIT: Before anyone gives me the "Ooh, well if the Beam Rifle was in, then people would be wondering why you the player can't use it," I'd like to point out that the Elites, especially later in the game, have a tendency to dual-wield Plasma Rifles, and still use melee attacks. You can't dual-wield, but no one's questioning an Elite's ability to.

 

[Mikeyfell]

Also, don't play First Person Shooters.

The only real conclusion I can draw here is that you are, for whatever reason, forcing yourself upon a genre that you don't actually like. To say that the levels in Reach, or even Halo 3, lacked polish is asinine at best. I just...

No, I'm not getting into this. Find a different genre. You're probably better suited to sandbox games. Red Faction: Guerilla is fun. Red Dead Redemption. Play those.

games should do what they do well. but they shouldn't compromise the single player or the story to do so.
Halo's 1 through 3 had really short shrift story modes that you could plow through in 8 or 9 hours, ODST in 5 or 6

Reach had a better story that takes about 18 hours and the gun play is better than it was in any of the other games.

but FPS developers don't seem to care about anything but their stupid online multyplayer,
and they leave single player hanging

I think Halo: Reach took what the franchise has always done well, or tried to do well, and took it all to a higher level. Every part of this package seems full polished and ready for use. It's incredibly unique in that it literally has something for everyone who is even remotely interested in Halo, or even just in first person shooters.

It's got a great, compelling story for people to play through if you're into the fiction. It's got some of the most remarkable multiplayer for those with a competitive edge, and there is a TON of modes and game types to sink your teeth into. Not to mention a large, thriving community that will always be there. If you're looking for more of a team effort style of play, there's co-op and firefight (local and online). The Halo games have been the only reason I'm still interested in LAN on a console. If you're the creative type for machinema or creating levels, Forge is great and there are all types of settings you can change for creating custom games.

I don't know, man. There's a lot of value in this game. If there was ever a game worth $60, I'd say that this one has to be it.

Reach is easily the best of the Halo games
and the best FPS that isn't Half Life 2 (in my opinion)

and even though I hate the entire concept of ON-line Multyplayer the Halo games are the only ones that I think did it well.

it's all done really well. except "Nightfall" I thought that would be an awesome stealth mission. but after you take your first shot it just became another action level.

but lets face it, the other Halo games sold for their multyplayer alone, and Cortana she's the only one who kept the story floating. the only reason I gave a shit about anything that happened in Halo 3 was that I knew that eventual you'd rescue Cortana .

that's why it's shocking that Bungie's last Halo Game had such an excellent story mode (for an FPS, still damn good for a game.)
so yes...I think Halo Reach deserves the perfect 10's it's getting. it's just undermined some what by those being the exact same perfect 10's they gave the other 4 Halo games. they all got free rides because "the multyplayer excuses the pathetic story mode"


[sub]actually I don't know if ODST got a perfect score, I hope it didn't[/sub]

 

[Frozen Donkey Wheel2]

You cared about kats death?

It was pathetic.

Spoiler

I mean, where the fuck were her shields?

Spoiler

I believe the explosions and collapsing building they were trying to get out of disabled all their shields. It isn't explicitly said.

Spoiler

in which case, i'll just laugh about the fact that she had /just/ put on her helmet when that happened. Those things never do work do they? XD

Spoiler

That's a good point, for all we know, her suit hadn't powered up her shields because it was still re-sealing after putting the helmet back on

Pure speculation mind you.

Spoiler: Just to add to the Nerdromicon rapidly developing here...

It's always been possible to kill a Spartan with a well-aimed head shot. It happens in multiplayer/Legendary mode all the time. And the reason she dies as soon as she puts on her helmet is because Bungie wanted to hide the gore. Blood and guts had never really been their style, after all. That's my best guess, anyway.

 

[Mikeyfell]

Does it really matter either way in said case, on second thought? It was a symbolic death to show to easily, quickly, and randomly anyone could have died on Reach, or the war in general. And how lucky anyone remaining alive actually is. That was the real purpose behind the scene.

It shouldn't matter. I know what the point of the scene is, and I applaud the effort.

Spoiler: More real spoilery stuff.

The problem for me is that the exact cause of death threw me out of the experience, because intimate knowledge with the guns, especially at that point in the game, caused me to get so caught up with the disconnect between game mechanics and that one singular cutscene that it was hard to get back into the experience for awhile. Especially since game mechanics kicked in for any other "action" cutscene, like the aforementioned "Emile and Six jump out of Pelican" scene.

The real problem, however, lies in the fact that we even have to argue about it in the first place. It doesn't matter if people can come up with rationalizations. If the player has to think about why a single Needle Rifle round was enough to kill Kat, the cutscene has failed to serve its purpose.

The solution, in my opinion, would've been to use a different weapon that is capable of one-hit-kills. Have the Elite use a stolen sniper rifle. Use a plasma launcher. Hell, have a fucking cameo of the beam rifle. No one would think about whether her shields were up, whether there was some EMP, or anything. They would see Kat getting abruptly killed by a weapon that can kill someone abruptly, and not question a damn thing. Then they could take in the actual scene for what it's supposed to be.

EDIT: Before anyone gives me the "Ooh, well if the Beam Rifle was in, then people would be wondering why you the player can't use it," I'd like to point out that the Elites, especially later in the game, have a tendency to dual-wield Plasma Rifles, and still use melee attacks. You can't dual-wield, but no one's questioning an Elite's ability to.

I agree with you there. I wondered why my needle rifle shots took 5 or 6 shots to kill from that point on.
there's actually a weak rationalization I heard about this: maybe she used the battery that powered her shield to boost the radio signal enough to pick up the transmission.
a needle rifle can one hit you if your shield is down
Hearing that didn't make me happy.


but still the reason her death pissed me off is that she was my favorite one who was left.

it wouldn't have been so bad if Emile got shot.
I didn't give a fuck about him. I gave even less of a fuck about him after he did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to help me finish the last mission on legendary.

 

[Miles Tormani]

Spoiler: For the sake of anyone who has actually not managed to be spoiled at this point.

I agree with you there. I wondered why my needle rifle shots took 5 or 6 shots to kill from that point on.
there's actually a weak rationalization I heard about this: maybe she used the battery that powered her shield to boost the radio signal enough to pick up the transmission.
a needle rifle can one hit you if your shield is down

Hearing that didn't make me happy.

Wow, that's just... what?

Spoiler

If that's the case, wouldn't there be a fucking wire connecting the communicator to her armor? I seriously doubt those suits have induction coils to power external devices.

That's the worst rationalization I've ever heard for this. I can at least understand some of the others, like the EMP one, as much as I fight it.