NDAA bill signed... and no one seems to care.

[Pierce Graham]

Last night, on New Year's Eve, President Obama signed the National Defense Authorization Act. The American military now has the right to arrest, detain, torture and even assassinate US citizens suspected of being terrorists. Except they don't need any proof. They can act with impunity and without consequences. If you speak out against the government on the internet, you'll get a knock on your door from them soon. I'm safe, being from Canada. Americans are now at war with their own government. Yet no one seems to care. When I first heard about this bill, I expected Americans to be up in arms, taking to the streets to protest. But no. Nothing. Why? Could it be that no one believes this bill could ever be passed in the US? Have we been lulled into such a false sense of security that we don't believe it could happen? Well guess what, people: it just happened.

 

[ICantBelieveItGoesBoom]

Another example of how the 'land of the free' has the least freedom of most developed nations for its citizens.

 

[Pierce Graham]

But you have to stand in AWE before the American government. How they masterfully executed their plan. No one is even willing to admit it might happen in the US.

 

[JoJo]

...Except it doesn't actually apply to U.S. citizens, or to lawful resident aliens, check sections 1031 and 1032 of the bill:

Under 1031:
"(d) CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITATION ON APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES PERSONS.
?The authority to detain a person under this section does not extend to the
detention of citizens or lawful resident aliens of the United
States on the basis of conduct taking place within the
United States except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States."

Under 1032:
"(b) REQUIREMENT INAPPLICABLE TO UNITED STATES CITIZENS.
?The requirement to detain a person in military custody
under this section does not extend to
citizens of the United States."

Source: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s1253rs/pdf/BILLS-112s1253rs.pdf

 

[Pierce Graham]

So the only thing they're not allowed to do is detain you. That still leaves assassinating and torture without needing evidence.

 

[JoJo]

So the only thing they're not allowed to do is detain you. That still leaves assassinating and torture without needing evidence.

Could you quote the sections of the bill that allow torture and assassination? I've tried to search for them myself but it's a hell of a long bill and ctrl+f searches for both of afore-mentioned came up zilch.

 

[Cowabungaa]

...Except it doesn't actually apply to U.S. citizens, or to lawful resident aliens, check sections 1031 and 1032 of the bill:

Under 1031:
"(d) CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITATION ON APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES PERSONS.
?The authority to detain a person under this section does not extend to the
detention of citizens or lawful resident aliens of the United
States on the basis of conduct taking place within the
United States except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States."

Under 1032:
"(b) REQUIREMENT INAPPLICABLE TO UNITED STATES CITIZENS.
?The requirement to detain a person in military custody
under this section does not extend to
citizens of the United States."

Source: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s1253rs/pdf/BILLS-112s1253rs.pdf

In a way that's worse. It's basically saying "How do you mean, these people we have a totally unproven suspicion of aren't even a part of this country? Well we keep them anyway for as long as we damn well please, because fuck you we're America and national sovereignty be damned."

That's what it sounds like to me at least. The arrogance, good heavens... It's one thing to dick over your own citizens, but to think that you can easily do so with people from other countries is just... I don't even know what to call it.

 

[Sightless Wisdom]

At least it doesn't actually apply to their own citizens. I am rather surprised that it received so little attention from the general public considering the nature of the bill.

 

[Nocturnal Gentleman]

Are you even sure that this is news? I thought the government already could do that...

Could? I'm pretty sure they have been doing that for years.

 

[isometry]

It would be cool if Obama used these powers to torture and assassinate Fox News commentators.

 

[Pierce Graham]

So all the human rights organizations who've been protesting this bill since it was announced must all be making a mistake. All of them. Simultaneously. I'm not looking through it all, either. Point is, this bill is at best bad news, at worst a declaration of war against the American people. Thank God I'm Canadian. Means I wont get assassinated for speaking out against my government.

 

[Aidinthel]

Under 1031:
"(d) CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITATION ON APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES PERSONS.
?The authority to detain a person under this section does not extend to the
detention of citizens or lawful resident aliens of the United
States on the basis of conduct taking place within the
United States except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States."

The bill as shown on GovTrack (which it says is the final version) doesn't have this part.

It does have this, though:
Sec. 1021
"(e) Authorities- Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States."

Which basically means the military is only legally allowed to hold people indefinitely without trial as long as they're not American. Lovely.

 

[Kevlar Eater]

If we did try a massive protest, what's stopping the US government from hiring a private military and having them gun everyone down?

Also, everyone outside the US tends to forget that we don't have a voice unless we are wealthy and with huge connections, and that we don't really have a say in who gets voted into office. To put it simplistic terms, it's rich dicks replacing rich dicks with other rich dicks.

 

[JoJo]

Under 1031:
"(d) CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITATION ON APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES PERSONS.
?The authority to detain a person under this section does not extend to the
detention of citizens or lawful resident aliens of the United
States on the basis of conduct taking place within the
United States except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States."

The bill as shown on GovTrack (which it says is the final version) doesn't have this part.

It does have this, though:
Sec. 1021
"(e) Authorities- Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States."

Which basically means the military is only legally allowed to hold people indefinitely without trial as long as they're not American. Lovely.

If you look under "b)" of section 1021 of the link you provided me, you'll find this too:

b) Applicability to United States Citizens and Lawful Resident Aliens-
(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.
(2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.

So basically it not only doesn't apply to Americans, but it also doesn't apply to non-citizens who are lawfully in the United States, except what is permitted by the Constitution. That's a relief for me since I'm hoping to be working in U.S. this summer. Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with the concept of anyone being detained without due process or trial, even terrorists, but this law is no way as bad as some people have been making out and the Americans have already been doing pretty much the same thing with Guantanamo bay since 9/11.

So all the human rights organizations who've been protesting this bill since it was announced must all be making a mistake. All of them. Simultaneously. I'm not looking through it all, either. Point is, this bill is at best bad news, at worst a declaration of war against the American people. Thank God I'm Canadian. Means I wont get assassinated for speaking out against my government.

Human rights organisations don't like the concept of any detention without trial, and I agree with them, that is what they are protesting. The whole "torture and assassination" part is a scare made up by some very skilled trolls and then spread around by concerned citizens such as yourself who don't realise it's a hoax. I find it suspicious that despite the number of threads online I've seen about this bill, not one has actually been able to quote the parts of the bill that allow torture or assassination of U.S. citizens.

 

[Andy Szidon]

Nothing to fear? Cool.

 

[brainslurper]

So the only thing they're not allowed to do is detain you. That still leaves assassinating and torture without needing evidence.

I challenge you to torture someone without detaining them.

 

[brainslurper]

If we did try a massive protest, what's stopping the US government from hiring a private military and having them gun everyone down?

The Constitution? Right to peacefully assemble.

 

[brainslurper]

Under 1031:
"(d) CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITATION ON APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES PERSONS.
?The authority to detain a person under this section does not extend to the
detention of citizens or lawful resident aliens of the United
States on the basis of conduct taking place within the
United States except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States."

The bill as shown on GovTrack (which it says is the final version) doesn't have this part.

It does have this, though:
Sec. 1021
"(e) Authorities- Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States."

Which basically means the military is only legally allowed to hold people indefinitely without trial as long as they're not American. Lovely.

The US government wouldn't be able to do it to a french person, because the french government would be pissed. I don't think they could realistically detain someone from a country we are at war with.

 

[wintercoat]

So the only thing they're not allowed to do is detain you. That still leaves assassinating and torture without needing evidence.

I challenge you to torture someone without detaining them.

Psychological torture doesn't require detention.