New 50 Shades bok... *sighs*

[Lufia Erim]

I'm not sure I get what's the difference between a romantic ideal and a romantic fantasy. Please explain.

A romantic ideal is something you would actually want.

A fantasy is different. Some people find rape fantasies attractive. Those same people don't want to experience actual rape.

Ah, but you'd hope the people indulging in such knew the difference. Apparently a lot of people are trying what they think is BDSM based on the books, and doing it dangerously wrong.

Not to mention the massive increase in people having to be rescued from being handcuffed to beds in the UK.

Wait , hold the phone. Are people really being rescued from being handcuffed to the bed? Because if so that's halarious and makes the existence of this book worth it on that alone.

OT: can you explain how exactly this guy is abusive? I'm assumine you mean psycholigically abusive. But to my understanding ( i didn't read the book but my gf did), he never really forces her into anything and she chose to be ( and continue being )part of his entourage.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Wait , hold the phone. Are people really being rescued from being handcuffed to the bed? Because if so that's halarious and makes the existence of this book worth it on that alone.

I read a news article about it. Apparently the UK emergency services aren't happy.

OT: can you explain how exactly this guy is abusive? I'm assumine you mean psycholigically abusive. But to my understanding ( i didn't read the book but my gf did), he never really forces her into anything and she chose to be ( and continue being )part of his entourage.

Not read it either, but I believe that she has to agree to be his sex slave if she wants to keep her job or something.

 

[kyp275]

Yep, a new book in the horrendous and abuse-glorifying 50 Shades trilogy is being released the 18th of June. It's called Grey and retells the story from Christian's point of view. because apparently, we didn't have enough people in the world calling abuse "romantic." (and no, I'm not referring to the BDSM part.) Read more about it here [http://www.people.com/article/fifty-shades-of-grey-el-james-new-book-christian-perspective] if you want to ruin your evening.

(My mom was stuck in an incredibly abusive relationship with my dad for twelve years, so yes, I'm allowed to have this kind of tone against somebody who romanticizes it.)

I fail to see what the big deal is. It's just another shitty book that will have a legion of screaming fangirl following for some inexplicable reason. Don't like the story? don't read it, nobody is putting a gun to your head.

 

[Queen Michael]

OT: can you explain how exactly this guy is abusive? I'm assumine you mean psycholigically abusive. But to my understanding ( i didn't read the book but my gf did), he never really forces her into anything and she chose to be ( and continue being )part of his entourage.

I sure can! At one point, she goes to Georgia to see her mom and makes it clear she wants to be alone, bu Christian follows her anyway. Christian creates a list of who Ana is allowed to meet, which does not inclide several of her friends. She does not get to have a say in that. He also forces her to take hormonal birth control, so that he own't have to use a condom. That she doesn't want to is fine by him.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Yep, a new book in the horrendous and abuse-glorifying 50 Shades trilogy is being released the 18th of June. It's called Grey and retells the story from Christian's point of view. because apparently, we didn't have enough people in the world calling abuse "romantic." (and no, I'm not referring to the BDSM part.) Read more about it here [http://www.people.com/article/fifty-shades-of-grey-el-james-new-book-christian-perspective] if you want to ruin your evening.

(My mom was stuck in an incredibly abusive relationship with my dad for twelve years, so yes, I'm allowed to have this kind of tone against somebody who romanticizes it.)

I fail to see what the big deal is. It's just another shitty book that will have a legion of screaming fangirl following for some inexplicable reason. Don't like the story? don't read it, nobody is putting a gun to your head.

As mentioned previously, a lot of people are getting ideas from the book, and not all of those are great ideas.

Now, sure, they have a perfect right to do so. But I think it'd be wise to point out the problems with it.

 

[Queen Michael]

Yep, a new book in the horrendous and abuse-glorifying 50 Shades trilogy is being released the 18th of June. It's called Grey and retells the story from Christian's point of view. because apparently, we didn't have enough people in the world calling abuse "romantic." (and no, I'm not referring to the BDSM part.) Read more about it here [http://www.people.com/article/fifty-shades-of-grey-el-james-new-book-christian-perspective] if you want to ruin your evening.

(My mom was stuck in an incredibly abusive relationship with my dad for twelve years, so yes, I'm allowed to have this kind of tone against somebody who romanticizes it.)

I fail to see what the big deal is. It's just another shitty book that will have a legion of screaming fangirl following for some inexplicable reason. Don't like the story? don't read it, nobody is putting a gun to your head.

I won't read it, but that's not the problem. The problem is that tons and tons of women will read it, and get more reinforcement for the idea that abuse is romantic and "It's okay if, deep down, he looooves you."

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Oh great, now CollegeHumor need to redo their sketch from years ago, except this time with a female voiceover. Say, which actress working right now could produce the most ear-splitting shrieks imaginable?

Tara Strong?


OT: The transparency of this is hilarious, while still horrifying that this is being kept alive

For all of those who want to see why this book is so bad, without having to actually read the book, here's a chapter by chapter summary of it written by another romance author:

http://jenniferarmintrout.blogspot.com.au/p/jen-reads-50-shades-of-grey.html?zx=ae6a0ba5b51c0cd8

 

[Ishal]

I don't understand the overblown hate for this series.

overblown I say for a reason. It seems fairly typical for the genre. For whatever reason this one is a blow out hit. Same deal with Harry Potter. There are tons of books similar to Harry Potter out there, but that one just happened to break through and be a hit.

The idea that tons of women will read it, and have bad ideas "reinforced" to them about abuse. Can't we give women a little bit of agency here? Seems to me like it's doing them a bit of a disservice. It's fiction. I doubt many will take this as things they should apply to their lives.

I realize a certain... movement doesn't take too kindly to this kind of fantastical romantization of abuse, stalking, bondage, and whatever else is in these books. Indeed I've read an article by someone heavy into bondage that criticized the books for getting it wrong on so many levels. And yet... these things persist, and remain popular. I think the more seriously you take these things, the more power you give them.

 

[kyp275]

As mentioned previously, a lot of people are getting ideas from the book, and not all of those are great ideas.

Now, sure, they have a perfect right to do so. But I think it'd be wise to point out the problems with it.

I won't read it, but that's not the problem. The problem is that tons and tons of women will read it, and get more reinforcement for the idea that abuse is romantic and "It's okay if, deep down, he looooves you."

Sorry, those type of arguments falls entirely too close to the violence in games/music/tv creates mass killers for me. If someone is crazy/stupid enough to romanticize abuse because of a sorry excuse of a fanfict, then they're already screwed up in the head to begin with.

This makes about as much sense as worrying that the Fast 7 movie would prompt people to think it's ok to drive cars through bulidings.

 

[kingspikearcher]

The problem is that there is a staggering amount of popular ignorance about how healthy BDSM relationships work. The series isn't just being marketed as escapist fantasy (which would probably be harmless), it's ALSO being marketed as something to inspire a more adventurous and kinky real-world sex life in readers. Unfortunately it also perpetuates basically every toxic misconception in popular thought.

I wrote a long article on the subject in my blog, which I'll shamelessly plug here in case folks are interested:
http://kingspikearcher.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/the-fifty-first-shade-fifty-shades-of.html

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Sorry, those type of arguments falls entirely too close to the violence in games/music/tv creates mass killers for me. If someone is crazy/stupid enough to romanticize abuse because of a sorry excuse of a fanfict, then they're already screwed up in the head to begin with.

This makes about as much sense as worrying that the Fast 7 movie would prompt people to think it's ok to drive cars through bulidings.

Here's my issues with it:

- It's absolutely awfully written. The level of quality that a 14 year old would write. In addition to that whole scenes are ripped straight from Twilight (in addition to, you know, all of the characters). And if a 14 year old wrote it, I would hate to see who edited it, if it even got edited. It's actually the worst quality writing I've ever read in a published book. Despite all this it's made 70 million sales just in the US, about 1/5 Americans bought this book. (here's some writing samples: http://www.thestranger.com/blogs/slog/2015/02/14/21710269/fifty-terrible-lines-from-fifty-shades-of-grey )

- Ana is a horrible protagonist, she treats her friends like shit, she lets Christian absolutely walk over every aspect of her life and then gets complimented for being such a strong and determined person. Apparently putting up 5 seconds of resistance before giving him complete control over the friends you see, your schedule, what you eat, what you're going to do with him sexually, etc, makes you a strong individual. I think he literally does everything that she tells him not to

- It isn't stopping at fantasy. People are actually complaining about their husbands not being enough like Christian Grey. It's not hard to find articles about why he's the ideal lover. Here's a couple:

http://www.thesuburbanjungle.com/i-cheated-on-my-husband-with-christian-grey#sthash.Uik47kty.dpbs

http://www.jordangrayconsulting.com/2014/10/men-can-learn-from-fifty-shades-of-grey/

(Hint: One of the things you can learn from him is not to take no for an answer when it comes to sex)

In summary, it's awfully written, the main character is a horrible person, the love interest is a horrible person, and people want him in real life.

 

[esserin]

Just remember everybody. if you start complaining about it, you will only increase peoples awareness of it.

I mean I'm pretty sure that was the only reason the books became so well known.

I.E. I only found out about this because of this thread.

If you hate it, just ignore it and let it be what it is.

A fad, no more, no less.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

"Christian: I'm a rich white guy who enjoys abusing women in faux BDSM relationships."

Can they really stretch that over 300 pages?

 

[CrystalShadow]

I'm not sure I get what's the difference between a romantic ideal and a romantic fantasy. Please explain.

A romantic ideal is something you would actually want.

A fantasy is different. Some people find rape fantasies attractive. Those same people don't want to experience actual rape.

Ooh. Yeah... Ouch. Don't remind me. Seriously, why do people's minds (or, well, mine, in fact) do that?
Having experience with uhm... Both of those I really wish I could understand what twisted part of me manages to fantasise about that... But yeah... It does... >_>

bleugh... -shudders at the thought of it-

 

[Thaluikhain]

As mentioned previously, a lot of people are getting ideas from the book, and not all of those are great ideas.

Now, sure, they have a perfect right to do so. But I think it'd be wise to point out the problems with it.

I won't read it, but that's not the problem. The problem is that tons and tons of women will read it, and get more reinforcement for the idea that abuse is romantic and "It's okay if, deep down, he looooves you."

Sorry, those type of arguments falls entirely too close to the violence in games/music/tv creates mass killers for me. If someone is crazy/stupid enough to romanticize abuse because of a sorry excuse of a fanfict, then they're already screwed up in the head to begin with.

This makes about as much sense as worrying that the Fast 7 movie would prompt people to think it's ok to drive cars through bulidings.

You mean the way nobody wanted to join the Air Force after seeing Top Gun?

 

[Thaluikhain]

You mean the way nobody wanted to join the Air Force after seeing Top Gun?

That's not entirely the same thing though. Navy Pilot applications surged after the film. But that was 30 years ago when the information about such a job wasn't as easy to get a hold of these days. Back then you'd have to get second hand accounts from people in a recruiting office. Nowadays you can watch helmetcam vids of soldiers walking onto IED's and having their legs blown off on youtube.

A good point. However, I still think it still applies, just less effectively than it did.

 

[kyp275]

As mentioned previously, a lot of people are getting ideas from the book, and not all of those are great ideas.

Now, sure, they have a perfect right to do so. But I think it'd be wise to point out the problems with it.

I won't read it, but that's not the problem. The problem is that tons and tons of women will read it, and get more reinforcement for the idea that abuse is romantic and "It's okay if, deep down, he looooves you."

Sorry, those type of arguments falls entirely too close to the violence in games/music/tv creates mass killers for me. If someone is crazy/stupid enough to romanticize abuse because of a sorry excuse of a fanfict, then they're already screwed up in the head to begin with.

This makes about as much sense as worrying that the Fast 7 movie would prompt people to think it's ok to drive cars through bulidings.

You mean the way nobody wanted to join the Air Force after seeing Top Gun?

So, where is the surge of new drug king pins and meth labs after Breaking Bad aired?

 

[Queen Michael]

As mentioned previously, a lot of people are getting ideas from the book, and not all of those are great ideas.

Now, sure, they have a perfect right to do so. But I think it'd be wise to point out the problems with it.

I won't read it, but that's not the problem. The problem is that tons and tons of women will read it, and get more reinforcement for the idea that abuse is romantic and "It's okay if, deep down, he looooves you."

Sorry, those type of arguments falls entirely too close to the violence in games/music/tv creates mass killers for me. If someone is crazy/stupid enough to romanticize abuse because of a sorry excuse of a fanfict, then they're already screwed up in the head to begin with.

This makes about as much sense as worrying that the Fast 7 movie would prompt people to think it's ok to drive cars through bulidings.

You mean the way nobody wanted to join the Air Force after seeing Top Gun?

That's not entirely the same thing though. Navy Pilot applications surged after the film. But that was 30 years ago when the information about such a job wasn't as easy to get a hold of these days. Back then you'd have to get second hand accounts from people in a recruiting office. Nowadays you can watch helmetcam vids of soldiers walking onto IED's and having their legs blown off on youtube.

That's different, though. People know that being a soldier comes with a certain amount of risk, but the relationship in %0 Shades is portrayed as healthy. People are more liable to do something if they think it carries no risk.