New pokemon are different

[DudeistBelieve]

I just felt it got silly after the 2nd game... I mean how long are they going to keep adding pokemon? I don't think you can even CATCH THEM ALL anymore.

*sigh* it hurts, especially since I did catch them in Red and Blue. Even Mew. (and no, I only used Gameshark for Mew and Taurus.)

I'm far from one who clings to the first 150 after all these years, but with the exception of Magnezone and Nosepass, I can't remember many pokemon straight up copying real world objects. Then we hit Gen 5 and suddenly "sentient ice cream cones!" Not that the designs aren't good (I love Trubbish) but I have an increasingly hard time picturing these things living in the wild.

Well, Gen 1 took all the easy Pokemon, i.e. take a normal thing, add a doodad, call it a Pokemon.

Take an Emu, add a head. Doduo.
Take a Seal, add a horn. Seel.
Take a horse, set it on fire. Ponyta.
Take a bird. Pidgey and Spearow.
Take a rat, add beaver teeth. Rattata.
Take a rock, give it arms. Geodude.
Take a mouse, plug it into an electrical socket. Pikachu.
Take a bug, make it big. Too many to list.
Take a duck, give it a leek to cook it with. Farfetch'd.
Rape your childhood, give it form. Jynx.

GASP! YOU'RE SUPPORTING RAPE CULTURE! [/sarcasm]

 

[Smeggs]

So yeah, the new Pokemon are different, but it's the fact that there is no longer any appeal to the games or the story, and that makes it so that the Pokemon have no chance of being iconic what-so-ever.

...

TLDR; I don't care how many dimensions you were in when Emerald caught Girarceus in the Dream Land... it will NEVER... FCUKING NEVER... compare to when Red caught Mewtwo in Cerulean Cave.

Funny, so your opinion is fact now?

I'm sorry that you can't enjoy the new games like "T3H MAJORITY" of the fans, but don't state your own opinion and say it is a fact. Why don't you get a few statistical analysis of a vast majority of Pokemon players that back up your claim and maybe it will be more than pure opinion.

You know what is iconic and memorable?

Kyogre and Groudon nearly destroying the world.

Giratina erupting from the dark world and flying at the screen in almost screamer-like fashion.

Zekrom appearing before your character to test your might before your final battle.


Mewtwo standing in a cave is not quite that memorable in my opinion, especailly since you could actually never even come across it. There is practically no indication that he is even in there. Honestly, Mewtwo is more of an easter egg than anything. One final little crunchy puff at the bottom of the box, just like Ho-Oh and Lugia in the original GenII games.

 

[Fidelias]

Ultimate badass legendary gen1 -> current gen

->

Yeahh...
You can argue that there were complicated designs in earlier gens and you would be right but there clearly is a trend to be seen here.
Some shapes are interesting but there's so much of those that now we're closing in on FF belts-n-zippers territory.

I'm curious how they can top THAT in the next generation.

Okay, so I've got to agree mostly with the OP on this one, but I want to explain my reasons.

So there's two main things that make me think that Gen 1, 2, and 3 have the best designs in Pokemon.

1. The majority of the earlier designs seem to look "tougher" than the majority of the new ones. Obviously, this is completely opinionated, but I like to make a Pokemon team that consists of Pokemon that look kinda mean, you know. I'm too lazy to go into too much detail about this, sorry bout that, it's 10 Pm and I gotta go to work tomorrow.

2. The thing I liked about the earlier gens, is that you could tell by the designs and the body language what type of Pokemon you were facing.

Charizard - Fire
Tentacool - Water
Scyther - Bug

Everything including the colors, stance, name, and design gave you a pretty clear indication into what you were facing.

Now look at that, what is it, Gen 5? Look at that Gen 5 dragon looking pokemon in the picture loa posted.
What type of Pokemon is that?
I mean, it looks Dragon, but the blue and white colors look like it could be Ice too, but those definitely look like flames shooting off it, and that grey looks like it could be Steel.

See, theres the real problem with the newer generation, there are so many designs like this, that make it hard to tell what you're facing.

But everyone is entitled to their opinion, and even though I dislike the newer designs, it doesn't stop me from just getting the Blaze Black and Volt White mods and pwning the new with the old.

 

[Dryk]

Someone just reminded me. Ugggghh, the increasing proportion of legendaries has been more than annoying for over two generations now.

ICE CREAM CONE-MON
and
GEARS-MON
and soon
RANDOM APPLIANCE-MON (or is there already a TV one... I don't remember, none of the new Pokemon have any lasting appeal either way)

It's been done, it was pretty cool. They suffered from Sugimori's increasing fascination with derpy faces though.

 

[Smeggs]

At least it's not Ditto-face.

That episode of the anime haunted my dreams as a young lad.

 

[fletch_talon]

What type of Pokemon is that?
I mean, it looks Dragon, but the blue and white colors look like it could be Ice too, but those definitely look like flames shooting off it, and that grey looks like it could be Steel.

Bad choice of pokemon to try and make your point.
That pokemon is (kindof) Reshiram, he's the dragon/fire legendary from black/white version. But what you see up there is some weird (im not sure of the exact circumstances) amalgamation between Reshiram and Kyurem which is a dragon/ice type so you were right on most accounts. I'm not debating your overall point, but the legendaries in black/white 2 are almost like a fusion situation so its no accident that its hard to determine a standard dual typing for them.

 

[TomLikesGuitar]

If you can't handle other opinions then you probably should spend your time somewhere else ... Think about it, what does ranting about how everyone is wrong on the internet going to do?

I wasn't really taking it THAT seriously... I just tend to sum up my feelings in one master post and then wait to have conversations with those who disagree. I wasn't exactly being abrasive (except maybe to the developers). I could go into the problems I have with people just eating up the new games and in turn, perpetuating the staleness of the series, but some of them have legitimate arguements...

Gen 1 ... had the worst game mechanics. Wrap and Fire Spin were absolutely broken. Can't attack, can't switch, and take damage every round? Fun! Amnesia, too, with the single Special stat. Also, Critical chance based on Speed (Persian w/ Slash was a monster). Psychic types could only be hit SE with 3 moves, none of which had more than 75 power, and that was only if Pin Missile hit the maximum of 5 times. There's a gif that outlines how horrible the Gen 1 mechanics were. I'll have to look for it.

It also had the laziest Pokemon designs. Yes, you can talk about how you dislike the complexity, but they have to be complex because Gen 1 already all the generic birds and bugs and zoo animals you could hope for.

EVERY DAMN THING got better. Yes, Red and Green were revolutionary. But all the later games were EVOLUTIONARY. Pokemon has done nothing but improve since the first game.

You're right about improvements to the mechanics, no doubt. It made some Pokemon exceptionally better than others, and there was absolutely a best pokemon and move set for EVERY situation.

Now, this is just a matter of opinion, but I kind of like it like that.

I'm the type of person who LOVES Super Smash Bros. for 64 and can't really get into any of the others. At this point, I know every single move for every single character, and there is not a single situation in which I wouldn't know the best course of action. Sure some of the characters were utter shit (Mario is essentially useless after Luigi is unlocked), and some were clearly the best (Kirby or Pikachu usually take the cake in this department), but that somehow makes the game more fun in my opinion.

What I don't think is a matter of opinion is (as you put it) how "revolutionary" SSB64 was vs. it's "evolutionary" counterparts.

This is where I see the problem with the newer games.

I don't care if the mechanics are 100% perfect creature-based RPG mechanics.
I don't care if the moves were broken in Gen 1.
I don't care if the new Pokemon are the most brilliantly designed fictional creatures since Cthulu... or like... the sandworms from Dune... goddamn they were cool... especially in that game Emperor: Battle for Dune where they'd eat all your troops and shit... god that game sucked though.

But yeah... I don't care about that stuff because you were wrong about one thing. "EVERY DAMN THING" did not get better. Pokemon is lacking more and more in the originality department with each and every installment and it's getting really bad. The formula works for now, but it will run the series into the ground. This game suffers from the worst case of Nintendo-itis I've ever seen.

Pokemon needs a revamping to the degree of what happened to Mario for Super Mario 64...

Maybe even bigger.

I still think there's a lot of promise in Pokemon to do something new and exciting, since it's essentially a multiplayer RPG with theoretically near limitless combinations. But I really don't give a shit about saving whatever island the new game takes place on, I don't care about Team "Not Rocket" or the Elite Four, and I especially don't care about whatever the new dress-up game is.

This is EXACTLY what I'm saying.

You know what is iconic and memorable?

Kyogre and Groudon nearly destroying the world.

Giratina erupting from the dark world and flying at the screen in almost screamer-like fashion.

Zekrom appearing before your character to test your might before your final battle.

...all gimmicks that have no lasting impact.

Find me a pokemon player who doesn't know who Mewtwo is and in the meantime I'll find you 100 who haven't heard of any of these new deus pokemon that are supposed to be important but really aren't.

And you would call any of these iconic? Please... Pikachu is hands down the most iconic Pokemon, and he didn't do anything nearly as cool as the shit these newer Pokemon did.

Again, it's all a problem with the new games being unambitious formula tweaks.

(And btw, just a heads up, I've played every generation through the Elite Four or their respective ending counterparts, and I thought the whole Giratina scenario was stupid overdramatic garbage compared to learning about Mewtwo in the burned down lab on Cinnabar. Zekrom was kind of cool, but not too memorable.)

Someone just reminded me. Ugggghh, the increasing proportion of legendaries has been more than annoying for over two generations now.

... RANDOM APPLIANCE-MON (or is there already a TV one...)

It's been done, it was pretty cool. They suffered from Sugimori's increasing fascination with derpy faces though.

img Pictures of appliances with faces /img

This saddens me .

 

[Fidelias]

What type of Pokemon is that?
I mean, it looks Dragon, but the blue and white colors look like it could be Ice too, but those definitely look like flames shooting off it, and that grey looks like it could be Steel.

Bad choice of pokemon to try and make your point.
That pokemon is (kindof) Reshiram, he's the dragon/fire legendary from black/white version. But what you see up there is some weird (im not sure of the exact circumstances) amalgamation between Reshiram and Kyurem which is a dragon/ice type so you were right on most accounts. I'm not debating your overall point, but the legendaries in black/white 2 are almost like a fusion situation so its no accident that its hard to determine a standard dual typing for them.

Oh, I see, thanks for pointing that out, lol!

I'm too lazy and tired to try and find a better example right now, but I'm sure if anyone looks, they could find plenty of later Gen Pokemon that prove my point.

But like I said, I don't really care all that much. If you want to play using your old favorites in a new game;
1. Buy Black/White
2. Search for Blaze Black/ Volt White hack on google
3. Either buy M3 Real for your DS or Download Gameboy Emulator
4. Download and install

.... Your welcome.

 

[Chimichanga]

It's the colors. The new pokemon don't look natural. Everything looks like it came home after spending the whole night clubbing and dropping acid.

Look at that charizard from the OP; what the hell is up with the colors and the extra spikes? it looks like it's suffering from a strange mix of frostbite, gangrene and internal bleeding.

Remember the old color scheme? Aside from the fact that it was a dragon, it looked like something that was born in the wild - it's dorsal regions were consistently colored red and the ventral side was consistently off-white. Similar to how lizards and such have color schemes in real life. Realism isn't the point, but it looks certainly less ridiculous.

That new one had, let's see, splotches of red mixed with a black upper portion of it's underbelly, with square patches of yellow here and there, and some red on the arms, legs, and back. IMO, I think it looks absolutely retarded due to the seemingly random composition and inconsistent coloring. It looks like it was colored in by a four-year-old.

It's not nostalgia - if my opinion can be hand-waved and dismissed as being nostalgic for my preference of the older designs, then I can say in response that everyone else who says otherwise is simply naive because they were too young to remember or grow up with some semblance of taste. See: blanket statements aren't very hard to make, and they are rather unfair as far as assumptions go.

 

[Dryk]

This saddens me .

If it's any consolation they're not appliance Pokemon, they're an Electric/Ghost haunting/possessing various appliances

 

[Smeggs]

You know what is iconic and memorable?

Kyogre and Groudon nearly destroying the world.

Giratina erupting from the dark world and flying at the screen in almost screamer-like fashion.

Zekrom appearing before your character to test your might before your final battle.

...all gimmicks that have no lasting impact.

Find me a pokemon player who doesn't know who Mewtwo is and in the meantime I'll find you 100 who haven't heard of any of these new deus pokemon that are supposed to be important but really aren't.

And you would call any of these iconic? Please... Pikachu is hands down the most iconic Pokemon, and he didn't do anything nearly as cool as the shit these newer Pokemon did.

Again, it's all a problem with the new games being unambitious formula tweaks.

(And btw, just a heads up, I've played every generation through the Elite Four or their respective ending counterparts, and I thought the whole Giratina scenario was stupid overdramatic garbage compared to learning about Mewtwo in the burned down lab on Cinnabar. Zekrom was kind of cool, but not too memorable.)

You know why people know Mewtwo? Because he was the first final game Pokemon. He was also the driving force behind the first Movie that almost every child went to see.

You know why Pikachu is so famous? Because he was marketed as the mascot. He was the first Pokemon of the main character in the anime. He was also used as an excuse for Game Freak to milk generation 1 with Pokemon Yellow.

You know why they don't know the newer legendaries? Because a portion of the fans are rabid original generation elitists, who don't like change.

And honestly the marketing has a lot to do with this. Back with the first two movies EVERYBODY knew this shit. Now the movies all have pretty throw-away "save the world" plots. I know that many people quit watching as soon as 4Kids changed Ash's voice actor, thus perpetuating the "We don't like change" attitude.

How is Mewtwo important at all? He is Mew's offspring and had a hand in burning down a building is literally all the backstory he has. Meanwhile, Kyogre and Groudon created the oceans and continents, Giratina is the ruler of an entire world and more-or-less the embodiment of death, and Zekrom and Reshiram created the Unova region alongside two warring kingdoms.

Are you trying to argue which is actually the more fleshed out and important to their respective plots, or which one you can nostalgia over the hardest? Because in reality Mewtwo is probably the "legendary" with the least purpose of any of them to date, excluding wifi legendaries that you can't even obtain anymore. Perhaps if he actually had some purpose or plot-point in any of the games other than, "Grr, I'mma stand in this cave here."

But he doesn't.

 

[Kahunaburger]

How is Mewtwo important at all? He is Mew's offspring and had a hand in burning down a building is literally all the backstory he has. Meanwhile, Kyogre and Groudon created the oceans and continents, Giratina is the ruler of an entire world and more-or-less the embodiment of death, and Zekrom and Reshiram created the Unova region alongside two warring kingdoms.

Are you trying to argue which is actually the more fleshed out and important to their respective plots, or which one you can nostalgia over the hardest? Because in reality Mewtwo is probably the "legendary" with the least purpose of any of them to date, excluding wifi legendaries that you can't even obtain anymore. Perhaps if he actually had some purpose or plot-point in any of the games other than, "Grr, I'mma stand in this cave here."

The real question is who has the most swag. (Mewtwo has the most swag.)

 

[Smeggs]

Mewtwo is, admittedly, quite swaggin, but that doesn't change the fact that he never once plays any kind of role in the games other than being an easter egg boss fight in R/B/Y or FR/LG. He's not even a legendary, people just slapped that status on him because he's at the end of the original 150, right before Mew.

Which I always found odd, you'd think that Mew would come before Mewtwo, as he's supposed to be Mew's cloned offspring.

 

[SD-Fiend]

How is Mewtwo important at all? He is Mew's offspring and had a hand in burning down a building is literally all the backstory he has. Meanwhile, Kyogre and Groudon created the oceans and continents, Giratina is the ruler of an entire world and more-or-less the embodiment of death, and Zekrom and Reshiram created the Unova region alongside two warring kingdoms.

Are you trying to argue which is actually the more fleshed out and important to their respective plots, or which one you can nostalgia over the hardest? Because in reality Mewtwo is probably the "legendary" with the least purpose of any of them to date, excluding wifi legendaries that you can't even obtain anymore. Perhaps if he actually had some purpose or plot-point in any of the games other than, "Grr, I'mma stand in this cave here."

The real question is who has the most swag. (Mewtwo has the most swag.)

Sorry but that spot was taken by lugia the second it's movie came out. guardian of the sea and rules over the bird trio it could take mewtwo any day.

 

[Smeggs]

I dunno, Lugia did get its ass handed to it pretty easily by Moltres, Zapdos and Articuno.

Meanwhile Mewtweo was able to conjure a world-ending storm with a flick of his wrist and totally blocked a Hyper Beam from a Gyarados with just a thought, before picking him up and throwing his across the room.

 

[TomLikesGuitar]

Are you trying to argue which is actually the more fleshed out and important to their respective plots, or which one you can nostalgia over the hardest? Because in reality Mewtwo is probably the "legendary" with the least purpose of any of them to date, excluding wifi legendaries that you can't even obtain anymore.

We're talking about two different things...

I know the new legendaries are much more important in the Pokemon universe. They are much more iconic in the Pokemon universe. They are... actually probably pretty equally fleshed out in both Pokemon universe and RL... especially if you include Mewtwo's part in the Manga.

But the important thing is that we don't live in the Pokemon universe and therefore, their stories and respective importance are moot due to lack of consumer interest.

The reason why Mewtwo and Pikachu were marketed so well was because Pokemon was a fresh franchise with new ideas. Marketing only works as well as it did with Pokemon while the source material still has its appeal. Now, they've abandoned almost all of their mascots and tried to start fresh with new ones, but no one cares anymore. It's not fresh. It's the same story with another kid and new weird creatures.

People don't know the newer legendaries (or any Pokemon in general) simply because nobody cares anymore, and they need to do something new to keep people interested or Pokemon will NEVER return to the glory days.

For a while, Pikachu was almost a household name... they really blew it.

Mario is the poster child for Nintendo-itis.

No doubt, but the SMW to SM64 transition was the degree of epic that Pokemon needs.

Let's face it, you don't play the mainstream Pokemon games for the plot. They've tried improving the plot, with bigger and badder enemies, but it still comes second to "collect monster, beat gym, beat champion".

That's the problem in a nutshell. They've tried improving the plot in the STUPIDEST way possible.

How about they lose the gym formula?

BAM!!! Infinite potential...

If it's any consolation they're not appliance Pokemon, they're an Electric/Ghost haunting/possessing various appliances

Sigh... still pretty lame...

 

[him over there]

Mario is the poster child for Nintendo-itis.

No doubt, but the SMW to SM64 transition was the degree of epic that Pokemon needs.

I'm sorry, but exactly how was it so epic? It was the same switch from 2D to 3D that so many other games did right at the same time.

It did it first and best though. It was relatively revolutionary and the change wasn't superficial, it was legitimately substantial.

 

[Joshimodo]

snip

The new colors are what you expect from DNA. Did you think of deoxy's name? Its fucking DNA which is SUPPOSED to have the large amounts of colors. Although I don't like garbador, I will defend the fact that it's going to have multiple colors, why? Because not ALL garbage is brown dirt, there's bound to be somethings that gave him that form.

New colours are what you expect from DNA? What? That makes no sense. DNA has no definitive colouration.

Aside from the garish colours, it's a messy design. You might want to look up aesthetics - Having a jumble of overdesigned, under-thought elements piled into one Pokemon is not good design.

Feel free to defend having multiple colours, but you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, or what my post was getting at - Clean aesthetics are missing from most new Pokemon. Easily 80-90%.

Enough with your pathetic, condescending attitude. Face the fact that the art direction has taken a dive. Yes, there are some decent looking ones in recent gens, but they have practically all become an overdesigned ornamental mess.