New Vegas Factions

[BlumiereBleck]

The Legion is unquestionably violent and cruel. They maim and booby-trap enemies, actively practice slavery and they also betray their allies murder or enslave most of the tribes.

And taking the ears off of corpses is a perfectly acceptable act? What about Mean Sonofabitch in Westside, who was tortured just because he was a super mutant? What about Norton and his mercs, who're attacking Jacobstown because NCR ordered them to?

Plus, if you talk to Antony in the Fort, he'll mention that he used to be a member of the Hangdogs, who were one of two tribes (the other being the Twisted Hairs) to stand against the Legion. Both his account and the Great Khan ending mention that, while they're pretty much forced to accept the Legion culture, they still get to keep their old culture around so it serves the Legion. (Unlike NCR, which would much rather wipe out the Khans like they did to the Vipers and Jackals.)

And on the point of Bitter Springs, that may have been a legitimate accident and genuine mis-communication. Camp Searchlight, on the other hand, was a deliberate act.

Everyone who mentions Bitter Springs (Manny and Boone in Novac, the Great Khans, Sgt. Bitter-Root and Cpl. Sterling at McCarran) says that it was terrible AND that it was planned. NCR had cavalry (All Roads) and snipers (1st Recon) prepared to exterminate the camp.

So suddenly the great khans are the victims? They are nothing more than raiders, just like they were in fallout 1. They attacked shady sands (NCR capitol) and they have been known for rape, and cheating (the brass knuckles and metal armor in a hand to hand fight). The wasteland would be better off without them. They are barbarians, and NOTHING more. That goes to the vipers and the jackals as well, petty street gangs that done nothing but cause grief.

NCR is a culture that allows everyone to join their ranks. Ghouls, humans, and super mutants are known members of NCR ranks. You even find them in NCR territory in fallout 2. There is also no sexism there. Sure you have corruption (which is inescapable) but you have to admit that a clean slate is a HELL of a lot better than another dark ages. The legion doesn't like technology very much, would disregard medical science, would create a cult to Caesar. I don't have to tell you that on the escapist, religion is hated here. Nor would i have to tell you the idea of a second dark age followed by a heavily religious following of ONE man who calls himself the "son of mars" (roman religion) would be down right vilified here.

You think they are non violent to themselves? Think again, the vault wiki clearly states that they practice cannibalism, kill anyone who isn't a "soldier" (to enforce eugenics of a master race of soldiers), among a host of other war crimes.

The legion taking over would be the worst thing to happen to humanity since the great plague.

Ummm they never disregarded science and medicine.

Yes they do. Their culture admires strength and power. Painkillers, medicine, or any sort of weakness is immediately dealt with by death. science is plain laughed at for being synonymous with weaklings who rely on it rather than brute force. basically they follow the frat boy mentality "if it aint got muscles its weak".

did you even do Legion Quests?

No, my sources are the vault.

just play the game and do the quests instead of listening to that ncr biased website

Really? Because the vault talks about their entire culture and structure even before new vegas was even a thought. Its biased to the older fallouts, but not to factions.

go to any Legion/NCR quest page. how much is for NCR and How much is for Legion? try I Put A Spell on You. Theres a major bug for Legion faction that prevents the quest from completing, the "community" seems more occupied with ncr part then keeping it even.

Funny, maybe its because the NCR has more land and just more quests. Most of Legion territory cant be reached in New vegas.

i dont believe you get what im saying... The website is biased...try the questline for yourself and then comment back

How the hell is a site biased? Just because the legion doesn't get much coverage doesn't mean the vault is a smear site for the legion. I don't need to do the questline as i seen and read enough of the legion. I even seen the ending and what the legion has in store. The legion is a horrible choice and a step backwards to the time where barbianism is king. If you want i will even go as far to quote how many people went for what ending.

yeah its not like

Spoiler

the Legion supports the Followers after their takeover. defeat all powdergangers, restore order. and rule peacefully of over New Vegas

look it up

Oh yeah? that is not what the ending says.

Spoiler

The followers were slaughtered by the legion, creating a entire region devoted to suffering at the hands of the legion.

Legate is not Caesar. once again look it up

Oh yeah? Caesar's legion is Caesar's legion.

Spoiler

The only ending for the legion is the same, most were enslaved or killed and the rest lived under the legion's boot. That isn't peace, that is tyranny.

Caesar entered The Strip as though it was his Triumph. The Legion pushed the NCR out of New Vegas entirely, driving them back to the Mojave Outpost. The Legion occupied all major locations, enslaving much of the population and peacefully lording over the rest. Under the Legion's banner, civilization - unforgiving as it was - finally came to the Mojave wasteland.

Enslavement is not peace, nor is it good for anyone.

sure beats a new enclave ruling with corruption and killing civilians.

Oh yes because we all know a government automatically leads to another enclave. That must mean we have enclaves all over our modern world. Oh god forbid majestic 12 reads this or a vertibird might fly over to my house. /sarcasm.

NCR is not pre-war America. Its just some democracy with the regular bullshit. Corruption is inescapable in all forms of government. Tyranny under Caesar is the same as pre war American tyranny, except American tyranny is a gilded cage and the legion used an iron cage. An anarchist's view helps no one. You just have to accept that not all forms of government are perfect but the NCR has potential for actual peace. They have little to no racism or sexism which is more than the legion can ever say. It also helps that NCR has one of the most modern known city on the west coast instead of using crumbling pre-war buildings that no one seems to be able to fix.

Corruption is constant in all governments, but that doesn't mean nothing can be done about it. Even in Rome corruption was constant.

racism? The Legion isnt racist.

Spoiler

let Tabitha travel east and let the Brighfollowers escape and do the words "PEACEFULLY ruling over the wasteland and you do realize we are arguing over a video game

Oh yeah? Mutants and women are hated by the legion. They are views as objects, pets, or even wild animals. Peaceful is relative. Sure you may not attack nations but making lives hell for the common man isn't peaceful. Saying the legion is peaceful is like saying the nazis were peaceful until their allies attacked America. Also fallout was created for debate like this. There was even a quote about how black isle explored morality through their games, and shows in New Vegas.

by that logic why dont we let feral ghouls in towns, or deathklaws theyre mutants too!

Spoiler

Also its not like the NCR sent raiders to kill all mutants in Jacobstown...or kills innocent people, bleeds resources dry, and technically the Legion is a Empire.

 

[AMMO Kid]

I actually hated doing factions... I loved the way in Fallout 3 you could do everything on one account, but in New Vegas you have to make a new account for almost everything. It sucks...

But for the record I chose Yes Man

 

[Nitpicker of the Wastes]

The first time the player usually finds the Legion is when they've burned down a village, killed it's inhabitants and cricified the survivors.

But Nipton deserved it. It was a haven for Powder Gangs and the town itself was actively committing treason against NCR. If the Legion hadn't burned it, then NCR would have gone through with a big comb and executed the malcontents.

I just hope you don't take Vulpes too seriously. He makes it sound a lot worse than it actually was (he lost half of his contubernia taking the town!).

So suddenly the great khans are the victims?

Yes. Seeing as they actually have no relation to the Khans or Neo-Khans of NCR infamy, save for lineage.

They are nothing more than raiders, just like they were in fallout 1. They attacked shady sands (NCR capitol) and they have been known for rape, and cheating (the brass knuckles and metal armor in a hand to hand fight). The wasteland would be better off without them. They are barbarians, and NOTHING more. That goes to the vipers and the jackals as well, petty street gangs that done nothing but cause grief.

The Great Khans are not hardly the worst tribe to come out of the Great War. Hecate and her Vipers make the Khans look like Tandi-era NCR.

If you think that they don't deserve a second chance, (which NCR has denied them!) then that's awful cruel of you.

NCR is a culture that allows everyone to join their ranks. Ghouls, humans, and super mutants are known members of NCR ranks. You even find them in NCR territory in fallout 2. There is also no sexism there. Sure you have corruption (which is inescapable) but you have to admit that a clean slate is a HELL of a lot better than another dark ages. The legion doesn't like technology very much, would disregard medical science, would create a cult to Caesar. I don't have to tell you that on the escapist, religion is hated here. Nor would i have to tell you the idea of a second dark age followed by a heavily religious following of ONE man who calls himself the "son of mars" (roman religion) would be down right vilified here.

You're basing this on a Tandi-era perspective of NCR. There are no more mutant servicemen, as evidenced by Mean Sonofabitch. Meanwhile, the Legion has outlawed controlled substances (make of that what you will, but I don't like drugs) and actively promotes culture while NCR stamps it out (talk to Farkas in Westside about the OSI/Followers split).

You think they are non violent to themselves? Think again, the vault wiki clearly states that they practice cannibalism, kill anyone who isn't a "soldier" (to enforce eugenics of a master race of soldiers), among a host of other war crimes.

I run the Vault. The Legion does not practice cannibalism, and both Dale Barton and Raul state and show that any average Joe Schmoe can prosper under Caesar. Don't try and call them Nazis, Caesar is smarter than that. :/

The legion taking over would be the worst thing to happen to humanity since the great plague.

No, that would be China.

Yes they do. Their culture admires strength and power. Painkillers, medicine, or any sort of weakness is immediately dealt with by death. science is plain laughed at for being synonymous with weaklings who rely on it rather than brute force. basically they follow the frat boy mentality "if it aint got muscles its weak".

...Caesar himself has a brain tumor. While the tribals that make up the army might act like Science and Medicine are below them, the Legion is very effective at turning everyday plants into highly effective healing medicine without the downsides of modern Chems (see Lanius' own version of healing powder, plus the enhanced healing powder provided by Siri).

NCR is mostly lacking sexism and racism. There are still racist politicians the same way we have racist politicians. They are remnants of a bygone age where racial difference wasn't exactly accepted.

NCR official policy from Camp Forlorn Hope actively prevents women from serving on the front lines.

For the record the legion hates Ghouls, & supermutants in regards to "mutants".

Raul lived in Tuscon, under Caesar, for a while before the main army set up shop. Ghouls and mutants are generally left alone.

Oh yeah? Caesar's legion is Caesar's legion.

Spoiler

The only ending for the legion is the same, most were enslaved or killed and the rest lived under the legion's boot. That isn't peace, that is tyranny.

Caesar entered The Strip as though it was his Triumph. The Legion pushed the NCR out of New Vegas entirely, driving them back to the Mojave Outpost. The Legion occupied all major locations, enslaving much of the population and peacefully lording over the rest. Under the Legion's banner, civilization - unforgiving as it was - finally came to the Mojave wasteland.

Enslavement is not peace, nor is it good for anyone.

Uh, no. There is a difference, based on whether Caesar or Legate Lanius is left ruling the Legion. Lanius is the maniac killing-machine you seem to think that the entire Legion is, while Caesar really likes the Followers, mostly because he used to be one.

 

[BlumiereBleck]

snippy

I have not once mentioned the Great Khans. The innocent are the citizens who were killed by NCR troopers, in bittersprings and in freeside. who runs brahmin trade? NCR and Crimson Caravan, and Cass.

 

[Nitpicker of the Wastes]

who runs brahmin trade? NCR and Crimson Caravan, and Cass.

And NCR wants Cass dead, mostly because she's not as profitable as Crimson Caravan. They're not nice.

 

[Romidude]

I helped the NCR. The Legion are all bastards, I am but a simple courier, I need not the New Vegas Strip, so they were the most deserving. You make a the argument that House was around before the war, but that doesn't mean he knows whats best now. Everything has changed since then, and theres no going back, just moving forward. Also, you can just disconnect House from the computer, but still keep him alive, I did that, I go and talk to him occasionally. Funnily enough he doesn't like me that much...

The NCR are the best faction in my eyes. Sure they're aren't perfect, they have flaws, but they have the best intentions, and are the closest thing to a democracy in the Wastes.

Exactly what I was going to say .-.

 

[Nitpicker of the Wastes]

Culture? No, the legion wipes out cultural identify and assimilates them into their savage culture.

Talk to Antony about the Hangdogs, and how they've been the greatest tribe since the Blackfoot to join the Legion.

Caesar isn't helping, he is making things worse than they were before. Caesar isn't exactly smart if he trusts his brain tumor to anyone who does odd jobs for him now can he? Especially since death by anything is considered their own damn fault? Which makes Caesar sub-par and unsuitable to be called a leader in the own culture in which he created. Ironic? Hilariously yes.

Arcade Gannon is a fricken spaz, you should stop listening to him.

If Caesar's stupid to trust the courier who found the platinum chip, then so are Crocker, and Moore, and House. Therefore, it's a big cesspool of idiots.

I dunno. If I found a guy who rose from the dead and tracked his assassin across the breadth of a fricken desert, I think I'd trust him after he devotes himself to me. :/

The khans don't deserve a second chance as they harassed NCR when they rolled through the mojave and taking pot shots at children. Shooting children you don't like because you're bitter about the leader of the khans dying pre-NCR doesn't earn a second chance. NCR takes control of the resources and control of the area. They stay out of the microcosm in which the followers come in and fix things at the lowest level. You had the legion and NCR mixed up on that point.

Whhaaaaat.

Shooting children? NCR destroyed Bitter Springs before the Great Khans did anything against them. There is no mention of Darion, the founder of the Neo-Khans, nor of Garl Death-Hand, the founder of the original Khans. It's barely even the same tribe.

In the meantime, NCR destroyed the Vipers and Jackals, while the Legion would have absorbed them instead of, y'know, hunting them to the last man like NCR did to the Khans and Neo-Khans. Surrender mean anything to you?

 

[BlumiereBleck]

snippy

I have not once mentioned the Great Khans. The innocent are the citizens who were killed by NCR troopers, in bittersprings and in freeside. who runs brahmin trade? NCR and Crimson Caravan, and Cass.

Bitter springs was a Khan stronghold and even they took potshots at people. As one of the ex-khan members of the 1st recon said "they fucking deserved it". Freeside is basically a slum where people attack anyone for anything. Also if you helped the kings and the NCR get together they fix up freeside entirely.

they took it by force and threats. and the rest of NCR military will tell you bittersprings was more of a massacre then "potshots" 1 recon member doesnt represent the whole army.

 

[Nagisa94]

I helped the NCR. The Legion is just... horrifying. Plus I wanted to turn the tide of the NCR's losing war, lift the spirits of their demoralized troops. House wanted me to kill the Brotherhood, and I why would I wanna do that after joining them and having Veronica as a companion?

 

[JWRosser]

Spoiler: spoiler, obviously

On my first run through I was helping Mr House. I got to The House Always Wins IV then instantly failed it, due the fact that, some time earlier in the game, Boon and I had gone on a massive "kill all Legion" rampage, in which Caesar died. So I was a little peeved as I'd been helping Housey out all this time...so I broke into his chamber, killed him, and helped Yes Man.
On my second playthrough, I thought I'd make my character a dick, so I sided with the Legion. I still killed Caesar though..."accidentally" on the operating table.

 

[BlumiereBleck]

snippy

I have not once mentioned the Great Khans. The innocent are the citizens who were killed by NCR troopers, in bittersprings and in freeside. who runs brahmin trade? NCR and Crimson Caravan, and Cass.

Bitter springs was a Khan stronghold and even they took potshots at people. As one of the ex-khan members of the 1st recon said "they fucking deserved it". Freeside is basically a slum where people attack anyone for anything. Also if you helped the kings and the NCR get together they fix up freeside entirely.

they took it by force and threats. and the rest of NCR military will tell you bittersprings was more of a massacre then "potshots" 1 recon member doesnt represent the whole army.

No but it pretty much showed the khan side of things. They weren't peaceful they were just as savage as they were before.

so that justifys mass murder of innocent and escape citizens?

 

[Nitpicker of the Wastes]

Vipers, jackal, and khans were raiders, nothing more. Go talk to the ex khan member of the 1st recon, who justified bitter springs. If a 1st hand response to it isn't enough than i don't know what is. The legion would have destroyed their individuality anyway if you watched the legion ending.

Yeah, and so were the Hangdogs, and Blackfeet, and Iron Lines, and Twisted Hairs. Caesar gives them purpose apart from raiding.

Bitter-Root does not make a good witness, seeing as he's coping with PTSD from the incident. The Legion does destroy the individuality, because that's what'll hold them back from becoming a part of a large society.

House: He is an idiot as dependency on one man leading them would be destroyed when he dies. Progress in short term, lost in long term.

Agreed.

NCR: They have more than just the courier. They have ways to do thing other than one man. A faceless bureaucracy cant be idiotic as its a composition of many people. It can be slow, but not retarded. These guys are the same as America, and the last step humanity took before they offed ourselves. Logic would dictate that the last step would be the best place to start and continue from there. Just because you fall off a horse doesn't mean you have to ride a pig, you get back on the horse and continue on.

America offed America. Enclave.

Caesar has more than the courier. Caesar is winning, the NCR is quaking in its boots.

And if you keep reloading a save from before your game crashed, you're going to keep on crashing. I can do silly examples too.

Legion: Caesar forces his savage culture down the throats of everyone, which creates more savage humans than they were before if that was even possible. Just because a nuke dropped doesn't mean we have to go back to square one. They don't care for Caesar's ideals, they follow the violence like the knights did in the crusades. It also doesn't help they turned Caesar into a man-god which would enrage the escapists here due to anti-religious sentiment. A state religion of worshiping Caesar certainly wouldn't help things.

...Rome was savage?

Caesar worships Mars. NCR worships Tandi. NCR has proved that its Senate is nothing without its queen bee; they turn to the brahmin barons. Caesar's preistesses know to follow his teachings, and once the Legion has its Rome in Vegas, the Legion could weather a thousand years.

The NCR the most civilized and has the most potential, House comes in close second, yes man in third, and Caesar in -dead- last with pun intended.

NCR is hardly civilized. Talk to Knight at Mojave Outpost; laws regarding fair and proper treatment of gay servicemen are rarely enforced, even within NCR territory. Caesar's laws are never broken within the bounds of Legion territory, let alone outside it.

so that justifys mass murder of innocent and escape citizens?

Apparently. NCR has done this before; Vault City was attacked mercilessly by NCR mercenaries to force political trade between Vault 8 and Shady Sands. Vault City never instigated the attacks.

 

[Scarecrow]

The legion is a society that could survive in the new world...and they look awesome.