New Vegas: Why Join the Legion?

[Ryan Minns]

In one of my playthroughs I played a female for the soul purpose to see if the developers would stay true to the lore they had set up... and I was upset they threw it all out. The legion sees women as breeders and slaves.

I know playing a female and expecting to be beaten over the head and made a slave seems a little off but I wondered if they'd keep to their own story. Instead I was a male character who couldn't fight in the ring. Granted when you're able to ***** slap Kerrigan out of the Queen ***** of the universe position that might explain why the male peasants wouldn't dare!!!

 

[Souplex]

Why blow up Megaton or sabotage project purity?
It's there so people who want to be evil can be evil.

 

[DarkRyter]

There's of course the two non-human companions. But guess what? The legion also dislikes robots! So not even ED-E and Rex fit in with them!

There simply isn't a single companion in the game that fits with the legion. So not only are you barred from most of the interesting areas in the Mojave you're also barred from most of the interesting NPCs as well.

Funny enough, though, Rex used to be Ceasar's personal hound. If you visit the Legion's kennel master, he'll mention that Rex looks like Ceasar's old cyborg dog, and there's a legion bull painted on Rex's chassis.

The closest thing to a Legion companion is a dog.

Originally, there was gonna be a companion named Ulysses, a fellow courier and a Legion frumentari. He was cut from the main game though, but plays a MASSIVE role in all the dlc.

 

[snekadid]

This is the main problem I had with New Vegas.... yes... binary choice moral choice systems like in FO3 are over done... but atleast binary choice means 2 choices... NV has 4 endings but only 1 real choice.

Legion are morally bad but they work, the entire game is spent talking about how the legion run places are efficient and people are actually well off once they get past the whole getting conquered stage.

The NCR is morally good but again, everyone including the NCR loyalists know the NCR cant hold what they have don't have the internal structure to keep their people fed and happy.

Then theirs house.... the egotistical robot guy that treats you like a dog and whose only goals is being proven right after being a corpsical forever.

Being independent is the only ending that doesn't represent you putting the fate of vegas in the hands of complete morons(atleast not directly, people are stupid in that game)

Other than the massive bugs that never got fixed, I liked the gameplay in new vegas, but the story was terrible when taken over all(there was individual moments of good story telling but most was crap) which just bewildered me considering how amazingly written the dialogue of OLD WORLD BLUES was, best DLC of the game.

In my story I personally went with legion just because no one ever did and I wanted to take the path less traveled.... and the path was meh.

 

[superline51]

I joined them once on like my 4th playthrough, pretty much just for Achievements sake.

 

[Souplex]

The legion does seem to be the best choice for an ''evil'' character. If you want to be evil who are better friends then barbaric xenofobic slavers.

Also a faction based on the Romans is at least worth checking out, its how i ended up with the Imperials in Skyrim.

The difference is, in Skyrim the Imperials are the non-racist faction which improves the average quality of life under them, and is the only hope against the Thalmor.
They're the obvious good faction.
The Legion is pretty much the exact opposite.

 

[Legion]

The only reason I can see for supporting the Legion is if you care about what's best for humans in the long run, rather than individuals. Their goal isn't to make people happy, it's to secure the future from falling back into what it was like before.

They are very much a "The ends justifies the means" kind of group and they are looking at the big picture far more than any of the other groups are.

Personally I could never join them because that is not how I look at things, but there is a logic to their side beyond "Evil for teh lulz", it's just harsh, cruel and if you have any morals in regards to individuals, wrong.

 

[rofltehcat]

Somehow, after reading some of the stuff here, I feel sad that the hinterlands behind the Cesar's Legion war zone weren't in the game. But then the game would of course have been far too huge, I guess...

No matter if you choose it or not, the legion is set up for failure from the beginning. Some of the EDITs in the OP are good reasons to join them, had this content been accessible in the game or DLC. But even if it beats the NCR in Nevada, it would just be stopped in the mountains and after a few years, Cesar would die.

What happens after that would be about the same as what happened to the real Roman Empire. At first, they would have a much larger population than other states because of food and water supplies as well as security. Then Infighting among the leadership would lead to strained armies, leading to pillaged villages and towns, leading to migrations, leading to more infighting, leading to more people killed and forced from their homes, leading to more infighting, death, famines etc.

No matter what the player does in Fallout NV (except maybe taking the side of Mr. House), the consequences would be that after 20 or 30 years or so the Legion would just be history (with a "Holy Cesarian Empire" forming somewhere for a few years before crumbling once more). And this is what will most likely be canon in future games: Beyond the Mojave wasteland, nobody really cares.

 

[Sean Steele]

Because you've done everything else.

Meeting Caesar's really underwhelming too. He has a whole cult of personality built up around him and he comes across a just another boring guy. I was at least expecting voice acting to sound like something out of 300.
It's like I met Kim Jong Um and it turns out he's actually just your Dad.

But thats the point man behind the curtain ect ect most of these horrid dictators are people, normal people who want things.

 

[Alssadar]

Here's a quote from the escapist a long time ago that I saved in wordpad (I'm sorry, I forget who said it)about why Caesar does the evil things he does.

"Caesar in New Vegas isn't a monster, it's just a role he accepts. He believes humanity works best when there's a quantifiable, mutual threat to tackle but with the Enclave essentially destroyed that threat no longer exists. By forming the Legion and encouraging their atrocities he's simultaneously giving a rallying cry to the best humanity has in that world and grouping its worst examples together in one mass.

That's why his target is the Hoover Damn, it's of vital importance for the NCR and the electricity it generates is also vital for rebuilding humanity. But it's near worthless for the Legion and their beliefs.

He encourages the use of melee and limited firearms against the NCR's professional armies because the loses will always be high on his side and the hapless monsters under his command see this as culling the weak, they stay and fight, more die.

The threat he poses can potentially form an alliance between the NCR, The BoS, The Boomers, The Strip Families, Enclave Remnants, The FotA and even the Khans. With these specialties working together the hope for civilized humanity is strengthened. The Legion has a massive spy network, there's no way Caesar couldn't know this was happening but he did nothing to stop it.

Sometimes you have to play the villain of the piece."

Additionally: I have to say that it is very interesting that we can still debate the political, social, and economic benefits of all of the choices from New Vegas. It shows good design from Obsidian's part for writing and designing characters that appeal to different viewpoints and ideologies.

 

[Mr F.]

*SNIP*

Firstly, Congrats on being the author of one of the few walls of text I have ever bothered to read on this site, outside of the fun fun fun debates on R&P.

Secondly, Cheers for pointing out another book I should read. I think its about time I got back into Sci-Fi, I loved it until I started reading Peter F Hamiltons stuff (I got halfway through The Naked God and realised I had no interest whatsoever in what was happening any more and that the last two books could be summarised "Shit happens and Space Casa Nova Author Surrogate is pure awesome") and I have not read any since. Unless Cloud Atlas counts. But other then Pratchetts stuff, Cloud Atlas is the last book I read. And I read that at some point last year.

Thirdly, cheers for making a more reasoned argument for the legion. I have always been off on them, yet I try to be slightly more rational (I believe that "The ends justify the means" is a logical argument and, at heart, I am a utilitarian socialist.) the main reasons I have for being against them is the utter failure at Hoover Dam. The rape and slavery? Well, that happens in a war zone and they are tribal, you cannot judge them using the moral systems of a functioning society. We idolise the Greeks and the Romans, that is the shit they did. But if you are going to be a military dictatorship you might as well be a FUNCTIONING military dictatorship.

I dunno, overall I think they are much more morally grey then they originally appear. There are weird little things that throw that my way. Hell, one of them comes from me being Bi. I cannot remember the name of the dude, but if you have the Confirmed Bachelor perk and talk to the supply guy at the NCR outpost (The first one) he points out that the NCR are not ok with homosexuality, yet the Legion do not really care at all. The NCR really are rebuilding the old world, the Conservative American old world, the Legion is trying to stabilize things before reconstruction.

Out of interest what does the legion think about the Followers of the Apocalypse and vice-versa? Its been a while since I replayed the game. Caesar seems to be a rational guy, if the Followers were to rebuild in the stability of the Legion that would be a future that is not too horrific.

All of that said, I disliked New Vegas for the same reason I loved it. Civilisation. In FO3 you had a definite feeling that everything was fucked and your primary aim seemed to be survival. There was one major city and that place had a population that would be outclassed through adding a moderately sized trading post to Novac. New Vegas has the march of Civilisation, things are getting too... calm. Then again, I disliked FO3 for one simple reason: I disagree that the Enclave are the bad guys in it. In comparison to the Brotherhood, they are significantly better and far more realistic. They have the power to sort out the capital wasteland.

Hell, it is already established that the Brotherhood is a breakaway group from the real brotherhood, I think they should have aligned themselves with the Enclave and thus annihilate the petty conflict that was causing heavy casualties on the ONLY organized groups in the wasteland.

But thats just me xD

 

[Dark Prophet]

Really don't know why anyone would want to join legion other than achievements or to be a complete asshole. Another thing I hate about legion is that even if I try to stay neutral, there are thse random wondering patrols who are just hostile towards you without any reason they are pretty poorly equiped and low level but even so if you kill even one patrol of 3 you'll fuck up your neutral status.

 

[Byzantinium]

I joined them the first time because I'm a big classics nerd. But after seeing that there is no Senate, no Virgil, no great works of architecture or technology, and no rule of law...I regretted it.

The Legion isn't Rome, it's the barbarian hordes pounding at the Republic's gates.

So, I'm a House man.

 

[Haakmed]

You get to wear those really nifty Roman skirts?

 

[Xan Krieger]

I joined them because they weren't little pansies like the NCR. They didn't have the problems of things like democracy, they got things done and I loved them for it. I sided with them for moral reasons, they seemed to run things the best given the situation and I would love to see them in future games.

 

[major_chaos]

I think the two big reasons would be either A. because they have some really fun quests (assassinating the president was awesome) or B. if you are like me and hate absolutely all the factions and so decide to side with the one that you are sure is gonna wipe out most of the others.

 

[vasiD]

EDIT 2: J.E. Sawyer, project director and lead designer, released a bit of background info on life in Arizona under Legion rule (spoilered below). Basically they live under a secure military dictatorship: there's plenty of food, water and power, but the Legion occasionally asks you to do things and expects them done (with dire consequences if you don't immediately do it). Areas like this were cut from the final game, which is too bad; seeing a place of abundance, safety and strict governmental control would provide an excellent contrast to the Mojave.

Spoiler

[link]http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/325677464040792162[/link]
"The additional Legion locations would have had more traveling non-Legion residents of Legion territories. The Fort and Cottonwood Cove made sense as heavy military outposts where the vast majority of the population consisted of soldiers and slaves. The other locations would have had more "civilians". It's not accurate to think of them as citizens of the Legion (the Legion is purely military), but as non-tribal people who live in areas under Legion control.

While Caesar intentionally enslaves NCR and Mojave residents in the war zone, most of the enslavement that happens in the east happens to tribals. As Raul indicates, there are non-tribal communities that came under Legion control a long time ago. The additional locations would have shown what life is like for those people.

The general tone would have been what you would expect from life under a stable military dictatorship facing no internal resistance: the majority of people enjoy safe and productive lives (more than they had prior to the Legion's arrival) but have no freedoms, rights, or say in what happens in their communities. Water and power flow consistently, food is adequate, travel is safe, and occasionally someone steps afoul of a legionary and gets his or her head cut off. If the Legion tells someone to do something, they only ask once -- even if that means an entire community has to pick up and move fifty miles away. Corruption within the Legion is rare and Caesar deals with it harshly (even by Legion standards).

In short, residents of Legion territories aren't really citizens and they aren't slaves, but they're also not free. People who keep their mouths shut, go about their business, and nod at the rare requests the Legion makes of them -- they can live very well. Many of them don't care at all that they don't have a say in what happens around them (mostly because they felt they never had a say in it before the Legion came, anyway)."

God that cut bit sounds great. I wish some modders would work on adding back in one or two Legion towns, I still haven't done a Legion play through but it would be really nice to have a solid reason to believe in the Legion when the time comes to role play it. I mean I guess I could just make another stupid brute like I did for my Mr. House run, but I'd rather make an Ayn Rand-loving charismatic-but-still-somewhat-dense character.

 

[GloatingSwine]

You join the legion if you wanna see the world burn...

Quite the opposite.

The Legion is there if you believe that the Nevada Desert needs to be forced into civilisation by any means necessary, no matter how harsh and repressive that civilisation actually is.

It's there in the ending narration. "Under the Legion banner civilisation, unforgiving as it was, finally came to the Mojave wasteland".

If you paid attention to the backstory of Caesar's Legion you'd know that it's actually a functioning civilised power, just like NCR is, it's just not a nice one.


If you want to watch the world burn take the Yes Man ending with bad karma.

 

[BrotherRool]

I think it's important that you can join the Legion even if there isn't much reason to, because it's saying that the developers don't choose your motivation, you do. If you were want to be crazy and pretty much a dick for little motivation other than self-gratification, you can choose to do that