New Vegas: Why Join the Legion?

[Atomic Spy Crab]

Because swag and romans with a bald old leader.

 

[Gergar12_v1legacy]

Well the faction may appeal to historical nuts, the kind of people who want to start from the beginning.

The NCR, with all their tech and ideals, don't actually know what that entails and how logistics are important. Its like a toddler trying to build a giant death bot. While impressive, there is a lot that can go wrong.

The Van Buren documents paint the NCR in the Mojave as a shadow, a faction that grew too fast without fortifying anything. Since their hold on land was weak, they lost contact with the rest of the NCR.

The NCR in New vegas follow in spirit, but not extactly.

They follow old world ideas, but lack the world that actually made it possible. The NCR has no standardization, which is a negative for modern warfare. Lack of standardization has no bearing on melee warfare, which the legion uses, and is actually a good thing.

Without the factories, and without infrastructure those ideals fail. The NCR needs the standardization of the old world armies to compete.

They need standard training. Standard armor. Standard weapons. The NCR lacks the ability to do any of that on an actual scale. Standardization makes warfare with guns much easier, but the good stuff is held for absolute last.

Ever wonder why the first recon, the best sniper unit in the NCR, use hunting rifles that are falling apart? Which is a WWII-esque technology, when the real old world used semi auto snipers and powerful .50 cals? Because the NCR's equipment is actually limited. First recon even says its because hunting rifles are common to the farmland they pluck the soldiers from. They didn't even bother to give them anything better.

The first recon should have .50 caliber snipers if the NCR knew what the hell it as doing and followed old world mentalities.

They even use T-45d power armor as their "shock troopers." This armor was horrible, even by old world standards. It chewed through energy cells like, as one soldier put it, "chans in a rice buffet." Run out of energy, and you were trapped in your own armor. The real game changer was the T-51b, which is nowhere to be found in the NCR even though it was common in California, and they got a metric fuck ton of suits from the war with the brotherhood. California has the most military bases of any state in the Union as well, enough to field a large army. The NCR has little excuse outside of laziness to not outfit their troops beyond what they bring when they fucking enlist.

The old world nations built up their nations. Their military, culture, and infrastructure. The NCR did none of it when expanding. They would grab a toddler with a spork and spend him out to fight if they could. Armies need investment.

The NCR has little defensible infrastructure.

The NCR has general custard to World War I to 1700s era level military style. They are all over the place and it shows. The NCR lose men every day and have very few to replace them, they don't have the luxury of a meat grinder from the 1700s that kills a lot of their troops. The 1700s was a time of non standardized guns, and huge casualties but this was a time when human population was booming by untold numbers. Everything was going right for humanity at the time, but not in Fallout's world were water isn't even guaranteed. The NCR are getting way ahead of themselves. They don't have the standardization, training, entrenchment, or coordination to pull off WWI-WWII military strategies either. They sure as hell don't have any of the requirements for modern warfare tactics. Their entire military and its leadership is one big joke.

The NCR has no actual end game, or actual strategy beyond a primitive form of imperialism. Sure they get the hoover, but what next? They have water and power yet they don't even bother to entrench their position for over 4 years? What the hell is NCR thinking to NOT entrench the hell out of the dam with everything they got? The dam provides water and power for the majority of the entire west coast. That is a HUGE benefit that should be protected at all costs.

The NCR wants it all without the work the old world required. If they actually did actually open their purse and invest, the legion wouldn't stand a chance when they are sniped by master snipers with actual equipment, face shock troopers with actual power armor, bombed with the NCR's vertibird airforce, and bombarded with artillery. A little work, and NCR's problems would all go away, but instead they send the good stuff to protect a bunch of cows in California.

On the other hand, the legion and house are focused strong men governments and those always fail when the leader inevitably dies. Their progress is lost because an incredibly centralized government runs that risk when all the power lands on a single man with a cult of personality.

So its either young upstarts who have no actual idea of what made the old world ideas work in the first place, or two strong men governments that won't last a single human generation. That's what it all boils down to. The only up side is that the legion is a bit more realistic in its expectations in regards to its world. It knows its a crude government for a crude world, and doesn't try to bullshit you into thinking its America 2.0.

I disagree, the NCR is not the best it can be, but some of the things you wrote are wrong.

1. The NCR did entrench, that's why there are snipers, and rangers are the river that snipe boats, and various anger depots.

2.the m24 bolt action preferred by snipers who don't like semti because of better accuracy given by bolt actions fires similar rounds to the hunting rifle.

3. 50cals are used, along with brush guns by the veteran rangers who are the true snipers

4. They have do somewhat of a standard troopers are armed with m16 like rifles, and trooper armor. Rangers are armed with .357 repeaters, and ranger armor. The recons are armed with hunting rifles, and their armor.

5. Van burden was not released, and it was non canon.

6. Power armor needs training etc.

7. The gunrunners are an infrastructure, which supply guns to the NCR, and does not need to be defended.

8. The fact that the legion even uses melee weapons is enough of a drawback, that even if they don't have standard melee weapons, they are going to get killed easily.

9. The NCR did not lose contact with the west they still have long 81 , which in my version is still there.

10. The NCR back west have a high population you also make it soild like they are fighting a equal faction, but you are wrong the NCR are stronger in almost every way to the legion, their manpower can be drawn from both gouls, and humans along with the fact that they have many settlements under their control along with most of California.

The best faction in fallout would have to be the Midwestern branch of the brotherhood of steel, and if they combined with the east, they would be unstoppable. They have lots of manpower ie humans gouls, deathclaws, robots, super mutants. Their culture is growing as a accepting all people culture, and they have lots of technology at hand, keep in mind this is the best ending for them.

 

[Grouchy Imp_v1legacy]

Because some people just want to watch the world burn.

Although since this is Fallout, perhaps we should say that some people do want to set the world on fire.

 

[The Great JT]

I could conceivably understand if you're one of those people who finds comfort in security and law, something that is a rarity in the chaotic Mojave Wasteland and equally questionable with the sort-of shaky foundations the New California Republic are on, or even from a viewpoint of "a bad government is better than no government." The problem is that Ceaser's Legion really are straight-up evil, doing out-and-out evil acts like crucifying an entire populace for no reason other than kicks. I've never joined the Legion, and I don't plan to based on what I've seen of them. If they didn't do that and instead were more along the lines of a pure authoritarian meritocracy, I might be more generous towards them, but as such I've no love for Ceaser and his Legion.

 

[Byzantinium]

If they didn't do that and instead were more along the lines of a pure authoritarian meritocracy, I might be more generous towards them, but as such I've no love for Ceaser and his Legion.

"Authoritarian meritocracy" is a good description of House's Vegas, really.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

1. A zerg in formation is a still a zerg. Grabbing every single person you can and still have them die in mass is not a good strategy. Two different worlds, with two different realities. You can scream "but-but formations and timing" but it doesn't change the fact that the 1700s was all about the numbers, and the NCR are the same.

No, it wasn't. There are plenty of examples during the 18th century in which smaller, more well-trained forces defeated larger, less organized armies. The entire Great Nordic War is an example of Sweden regularly using smaller forces of Caroleans against large Russian and Polish armies and pulling off decisive victories. Prussia also relied more on well-trained forces that often were smaller than the armies of their enemies. So your statement is wrong and shows an ignorance of historical fact.

It is also worth noting that standardization of equipment was in effect again as early as the middle ages and by the 18th century there was a definite standardization of firearms going on. When a soldier was given a musket in the 18th century, it was a musket with the same caliber, length and firing mechanism as that of the other soldiers in his regiment.

 

[FalloutJack]

For those of you paying attention to my Fallout RP, here is what the eastern end of Legion territory has managed to accomplish: Diddily-squat.

They're a bunch of wastelanders gone stupidly Amish. Yes, let's all wear our homemade armor and fight with our pointed sticks and substandard blades. That will surely hold out against guns, bombs, energy weapons, vibro-blades, powered armor, and SCIENCE. Caesar' Legion isn't the Roman Empire. The Romans are all about technology! Plumbing, incredible architecture, well-ordered and organized soldiers, the best weapons they could forge for as manny man as possible, and so on.

The Legion is just stupidly savage, which is why their presence in WW is...a few footnotes about how they got trounced. And in fact, in my actual gamer, they did not stand a chance. So yes, why join them? They're idiots. I don't even know how NCR hasn't kill them yet.

 

[ardias014]

1. A zerg in formation is a still a zerg. Grabbing every single person you can and still have them die in mass is not a good strategy. Two different worlds, with two different realities. You can scream "but-but formations and timing" but it doesn't change the fact that the 1700s was all about the numbers, and the NCR are the same.

2. One route doesn't mean crap equipment. They have railways, but don't use them. The Mojave outpost and northern pass (near the road to jacobstown) is wide open. They have other options, including vertibird support. Do they do any of it? Nope. They rather sit on the tech than actually use it when it matters.

3. Yes, but do they have them be useful? Nope, they stick the artillery in sniper's view of the fort. Where is the artillery at Mccarran? Searchlight? The ranger station near it? Camp Forlorn hope?

Perfect firing positions for targeting the Fort, Vault 3, Nelson, and Cottonwood cove. Way easier than bum rushing. Instead they stick the artillery directly on the road, where the battle will be held. Artillery cant fire when legionaries are charging from 5 feet away.

4. Yet they cripple each one, and even Hanlon says the Legion will win the dam with NCR's strategy. The NCR's soldiers are tired, under equipped, and scared. The legion's scare tactics work for a reason, to thin out the cowards before they strike. Every legion target was always weak. Nipton had no defense. Searchlight was bombed. Mccarran had a bomb in its main artery to the strip, and strategy exposed. Camp forlorn hope had no support, and they intercepted any of it.

Even then, attacking anything beyond Novac wouldn't make sense. They need the dam for a border crossing to go deeper into the Mojave. Its the reason only the area around Searchlight and Novac has legionaries. The main force needs the dam to cross.

5. Road, rails, and air. All NCR has. The divide wasn't any better, they used a fucking highway. Cars in Fallout are powered by Microfusion cells, no shortage of fuel.

1)Ok this may be off topic, but do you still not get that 18th Century military strategy is not the equivlent of you derping over yourself.
EX)The battle of Leuthen where Frederick the Great with an army of 20,000 beat an army of 100,000. The Siege of Stettin where Lesalle to a garrison of 10,000 men with 300.
War requires strategy no matter what era you are in. Don't continue to say otherwise when it is quite apparent you only gain your knowledge from shitty war flicks and your elementary school history teacher.

2)The way through Jacobstown isn't open. Big MT is in the way.One route does mean crap equipment because it is a ***** to transport things in a roundabout way. They do use vertibirds as can be seen in the Long 15 outpost in Lonesome Road.

3)You do realize fallout is scaled down right? Putting artillery at Mccarran doesn't fucking help its too far away and at forlorn hope its pointless because they aren't being funneled and can you imagine trying to aim a gun that large into boats coming across a canyon, also they aren't aiming at fortified positions which is the intent of artillery.

4)Actually they could cross at Cottenwood or Lake Mead, but instead take the most vain glorious and obvious point to attack. Also as i have said its the Frumentarri doing those things because the leader of it realizes how fracked the assault is if he doesn't. Lanius is a beast who thinks skulduggery is beneath him and Caesar only cares about the dam. If Vulpes wasn't there, the legion would be a broken toy army.

5)Yes because microfusion is just a common thing thrown around at the drop of a fucking hat, why do you think caravans all over the waste still use brahmin. Also the whole point that you don't seem to be able to get through your head is that the NCR has to send all of their supply through one long ass congested artery to get things into a fucking desert miles from their manufacturing base. It doesn't matter if they have trains if they can't get things to the local network.

 

[STARSaIphaTeam]

I hung out with the legion just long enough to get stuff out of their safe house... Lucky Shades. Then, kill'em all. I always try and get an evil playthrough in for games with moral choices, but usally do something very very bad, and then stop. The best example is what I did in KotoR:

Spoiler

When you mind trick Zaalbar to kill Mission. That made me sick to my stomach.

 

[kingthrall]

I find it hilarious people are trying to justify the whole Legion is worse than NCR and are primitives for the last page and a half using history and lore. Completely ignoring the O.P of WHY you should help the legion?

Its more hilarious that users on here are debating NCR are better because they can slaughter a technologically inferior opponent(in their opinion) which is pretty much just as bad as the legions ideologies of assimilation and control.

Also as well ignoring the fact that the legion are enjoying their culture and the outback while NCR are just all mindless drones pushing paperwork and just as head deep in their ideology of a perfect "old world"> Even when they get a paycheck their soilders get drunk and waste their money gambling and whoring unproductively.

People also fail to see that eventually the legion would make their own technologies once settled down in new vegas, people are naturally lazy and I can see some sort of Natural Power Armor from special gekko skins for instance being made and other technology completely new. What the legion lacks is a stable base of operations and that is what you can obtain at the end of the game, so even though its all speculation what my last paragraph is written so is the idea that the legion are all mindless brutes from about half the posters above.

 

[absulute]

Because Bill Rawls?

o/t: I've started a few playthroughs with the intention of joining the Legion but it never really happens.

I think some other quests are just more interesting and I always unintentionally block off the Legion ending.

 

[b.w.irenicus]

Well, I think taht every faction in NV lacks a completly white vest, they all have their problems. I would actually consider the Legion a veryalid choice for a "the ends justify the means"-kind of character. My only problem here is the hatred for women. I mean I get that in their more archaic society men are dominant, but in NV they really loathe the girls whitout any real reason.
So playing for the Legion, depending how you roleplay, why not? But not for a female character.

Btw, now I have to restart New Vegas, thank you very much

 

[Sandernista]

The NCR relies on number over everything else.

Except this is not true. We are give multiple characters talking about how Hanlon's forces beat the Malpaced Legate through cunning and strategy. It is only the widely ridiculed General Oliver who values a numbers game.

Its rifles only work in large groups, just like the rifles of the 1700s.

Incorrect, in both cases. I also like how you keep calling guns from the 18th century "rifles".

1700s warfare needed barrages to hit anything which needed more people

No they didn't, although it was a good strategy.

Armies have gotten smaller over time. Its been going from a numbers game to a capability game.

No they haven't. Standing armies weren't even a thing 400 years ago. (Okay there were a few standing armies, but among the great powers they didn't exist.)

Standardization in the 1700s isn't that standard. From what I am reading it isn't until the 1780s with the French armory standards beginning to spread did standardization get a grip, and well into the 1800s. There is even references to difficulty of repair before this. Standardization wasn't that clear cut throughout history until relatively recently.

Standardization of armies has been around since Ancient Greece. It lulled a bit during the dark ages, but picked back up as soon as possible.

 

[Nieroshai]

I would point out that all 4 major faction are a political extrem
House is Corporatism
the Legion are Conservative
NRC is Socialism
Yes-Man is Libertarian

I would like to point out that fascism is not conservatism, as the point of genuine conservatism is to limit government without endorsing anarchy. Fascism is more ancient imperialism.