New York makes it so legal non-citizens can vote in local elections

[Specter Von Baren]

New York City Gives 800,000 Noncitizens Right to Vote in Local Elections (Published 2021)

The legislation approved by the City Council will set up a system for legal residents to vote in municipal elections.

www.nytimes.com

Thoughts on this? This used to be the norm across the country as I understand it, when and why did that change anyway?

 

[BrawlMan]

New York City Gives 800,000 Noncitizens Right to Vote in Local Elections (Published 2021)

The legislation approved by the City Council will set up a system for legal residents to vote in municipal elections.

www.nytimes.com

Thoughts on this? This used to be the norm across the country as I understand it, when and why did that change anyway?

Racism and fear of foreigners/non-white foreigners.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Makes sense. They live there, they should have a say.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Makes sense. They live there, they should have a say.

By that logic, does that mean you also think they should be able to participate in countrywide elections?

 

[Seanchaidh]

By that logic, does that mean you also think they should be able to participate in countrywide elections?

All people should have some say in matters that concern them. That say should be proportionate to a fair appraisal of the weight of the concern.

 

[SilentPony]

Im not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, citizens get the right to vote, that's part of what separates citizens from non-citizens. On the other hand permanent residents, who through choice may not want to be citizens are entitled to a voice. On the first hand, part of the social contract is become a citizen, you get your voice. On the second hand again these people are counted in the census, so their state already gets more of a say off their backs, why shouldn't the individual have a say in how their say is used?

I am always in favor of more people voting and more voices being heard. But Im also in favor of Government and doing things by the book. Im in favor of voting ID laws. I also think the Government should supply those IDs fully on their own dime, they should last a decade or more, and if you're a citizen with all the paperwork you should be able to get one within a week by mail, or that day in person at the Voting Department.
I have no problem letting anyone into the system, and I think citizenship should be easier to obtain than it currently is. But I still do like systems.
I dunno...Im torn on this one.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Im not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, citizens get the right to vote, that's part of what separates citizens from non-citizens. On the other hand permanent residents, who through choice may not want to be citizens are entitled to a voice. On the first hand, part of the social contract is become a citizen, you get your voice. On the second hand again these people are counted in the census, so their state already gets more of a say off their backs, why shouldn't the individual have a say in how their say is used?

I am always in favor of more people voting and more voices being heard. But Im also in favor of Government and doing things by the book. Im in favor of voting ID laws. I also think the Government should supply those IDs fully on their own dime, they should last a decade or more, and if you're a citizen with all the paperwork you should be able to get one within a week by mail, or that day in person at the Voting Department.
I have no problem letting anyone into the system, and I think citizenship should be easier to obtain than it currently is. But I still do like systems.
I dunno...Im torn on this one.

So anything in particular you'd like decorating your spot in the pit for your impending arrival?

I'm not trying to be silly here. I agree with you. Also part of the contract and reason for people getting a say is paying taxes and while there are arguments that undocumented people do try to pay taxes can't really say how accurate it is so you might well now have people saying how money should be spent when they have no obligation as such to provide money to the system.

 

[Agema]

Thoughts on this? This used to be the norm across the country as I understand it, when and why did that change anyway?

Generally I don't have a problem with legally resident non-citizens voting in local elections. Although I don't think they should have a vote in local elections either, mind.

 

[Trunkage]

So, it's behind a pay wall

This looks to be LEGAL residents. I thought the problem has been stated (over and over again) as Illegal immigrants. Legal people should be fine.

What's the time frame to become classed a resident in NY? Of the top of my head its 3 years in Australia but I'd have to look it up

 

[Thaluikhain]

This looks to be LEGAL residents. I thought the problem has been stated (over and over again) as Illegal immigrants. Legal people should be fine.

Of course the problem is going to be stated that way. Rabble rabble rabble.

 

[Satinavian]

By that logic, does that mean you also think they should be able to participate in countrywide elections?

Countrywide elections should be for citizens. Citizenship is important and comes with extra rights and responsibilities. Furthermore as long as those people still have their original citizenship they generally already can take part in elections of their own countries.


Now local elections that would make more sense. You often get whole communities of of non-citizen residents and you want those to develop inside of legal structures not parallel to them. But personally i would not give anyone a vote who only has a secondary home there. Local elections should be constrained to the main residence only.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

By that logic, does that mean you also think they should be able to participate in countrywide elections?

If we are keen on keeping the Nation-State as a concept, citizenship has some value in broad reaching Federal decisions.

But like, if I move to New York I get to vote in New York's elections basically immediately despite not knowing anything about New York. Me moving 2,300 miles isn't significantly different than somebody moving to New York from Calgary as far as local politics are concerned.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Countrywide elections should be for citizens. Citizenship is important and comes with extra rights and responsibilities. Furthermore as long as those people still have their original citizenship they generally already can take part in elections of their own countries.


Now local elections that would make more sense. You often get whole communities of of non-citizen residents and you want those to develop inside of legal structures not parallel to them. But personally i would not give anyone a vote who only has a secondary home there. Local elections should be constrained to the main residence only.

I see. Thank you for elaborating.

 

[Gergar12]

So Green Card holders, and permanent residents, but no undocumented people. It needs to go further.

 

[Fallen Soldier]

Have no problem with legal non citizens voting in local elections.

 

[Silvanus]

So Green Card holders, and permanent residents, but no undocumented people. It needs to go further.

If they're undocumented, how would the state judge whether someone has the right to vote in a certain place?

Not saying this is an insurmountable problem, but it's certainly a barrier. You cannot have a situation where there is no check whatsoever, else a political group could simply arrange for volunteers to travel into areas where they don't live, or to vote multiple times.

 

[Gordon_4]

This makes a sort of sense to me. Like someone who lives in the United States for a prolonged period of time - actors or other entertainers would be a sizeable group - might develop very local ties and interests related to their immediate surroundings but not have anything to offer (beyond an opinion) about nationwide or international policy.

 

[Dreiko]

Fundamentally if we are saying it's ok for you to live here, there's nothing wrong with you having a say in how things are run. Like I am a dual citizen and got my citizenship through familial bonds without having to jump through any hoops, the process took like 2 weeks. I don't think I was somehow "more american" than folks who are here legally on a green card or what have you. I hadn't even moved to the US back then, it wouldn't be for another like year and a half, I had been in the US for maybe the better part of a month for a summer vacation at that point and we just decided to extend our vacation so I could become a citizen and then it was done, I could vote at that point legally if I wasn't only 16, so if that's how it works, folks with a green card should get to as well.


The only issue is when people try to conflate it or expand it to illegal aliens or something along those lines. Or at least the fear of that could be used to put a block up.

 

[Gergar12]

If they're undocumented, how would the state judge whether someone has the right to vote in a certain place?

Not saying this is an insurmountable problem, but it's certainly a barrier. You cannot have a situation where there is no check whatsoever, else a political group could simply arrange for volunteers to travel into areas where they don't live, or to vote multiple times.

California has licenses for undocumented people. That's one way.

 

[Trunkage]

This makes a sort of sense to me. Like someone who lives in the United States for a prolonged period of time - actors or other entertainers would be a sizeable group - might develop very local ties and interests related to their immediate surroundings but not have anything to offer (beyond an opinion) about nationwide or international policy.

Depends if they stay there or have proporties in 5 different countries. If they dont live there most of the time, I would say no.