New York Teacher Tells Kids There Is No Santa Claus

[StBishop]

Oh, for fuck's sake. Years and years parents preach that teachers need to be an important part of children's upbringing, with values like honesty at the very center of the debate, and now they ***** about a teacher being honest and "demystifying" the fictional figurehead of a commercial (yes, commercial, deal with it) holiday?!

I agree with you, Sonicron. However, I think the teacher in question should have shown a little restraint. Honesty is good but they're 2nd graders. I would think the teacher would have known from experience that messing with a belief like "Santa is real" at a young age would be like putting petrol into a fire place. It was dangerous move in the first place! XD

Edit: Someone above did say that at 8 years old they should know he doesn't exist by now, but I still think it could be a touchy subject for a few of the remaining children, you never know what type of life they live at home and how their parents treat these subjects.

I was sceptical before I started school and I got really annoyed with my parents because they wouldn't tell me (what I believed to be) the truth.

I would beg them to "just tell me" but they just said "Well if you don't believe you'll find out Christmas morning when there's no presents."

I think that's wrong.

I was constantly told at school from grade 1 onward that other kids parents had told them the truth which just annoyed me more that my parents would act so coy. I never had the guts to outright say "I don't believe" because I thought they'd just not give me presents.

In fact until the year I actually helped put out the presents I never outright told my parents I didn't believe.

I would have loved for my teacher to tell me.

In the interest of full disclosure, my girlfriend calls me the Grinch. I'm not really a fan of Christmas in it's present form.

'public' school

To avoid confusion it might be better (being on the Internet, which is international) to say "State" or "Government" school as, in many countries, a public school is a school run by the public, rather than the government. So kind of the exact opposite to what you mean.

I hope the party was fun btw.

 

[Saltyk]

I'd say that the teacher should have deflected the question and told the kids to talk to their parents about that. Explain that there are some things their parents are better equipped to teach them. This avoids all issues.

This was effectively what I was saying that I do. At Thanksgiving my brother's in-laws all hold hands and pray, I just walk into the living room and wait it out. I don't bring it up and avoid the questions if the kids ask.

Personally, I'm surprised that you and I are about the only people commenting in this thread with such an opinion. Most of these comments seem to amount to the following.

"8 year olds still believe in Santa Claus? What children."
"I never believed in Santa. Be amazed at how cynical I am. Praise me!"
"Parents shouldn't lie to their children."

Way to go guys. We can't even let children imagine that there is a fat man in a red suit that travels all over the world and gives gifts to all the good boys and girls out there on one day a year. Because obviously that is bad and leads to communism or liberal thoughts.

 

[manic_depressive13]

Holy fucking shit, the people quoted in that article were a bunch of psychos. What reason could you possibly have for wanting your kids to believe in Santa that much? Children look up to and trust their parents. Deliberately feeding them bullshit like that is just wrong. They should be learning to recognise truth from fiction at that age and it doesn't help if they're being hindered by their own parents.

Way to go guys. We can't even let children imagine that there is a fat man in a red suit that travels all over the world and gives gifts to all the good boys and girls out there on one day a year. Because obviously that is bad and leads to communism or liberal thoughts.

Do you honestly think children gain anything by being convinced he actually exists? Let them enjoy the myths and the stories surrounding Chriistmas. The celebrations and fireworks and fairy lights can still capture their imagination. You don't need to convince a kid Harry Potter actually exists in order for them to enjoy the book. My mother never tried to pretend Santa really existed and that never made Christmas any less enchanting as a child. Frankly, the shock some children experience when they discover it was a massive lie seems horrible.

 

[ike42]

Oh, for fuck's sake. Years and years parents preach that teachers need to be an important part of children's upbringing, with values like honesty at the very center of the debate, and now they ***** about a teacher being honest and "demystifying" the fictional figurehead of a commercial (yes, commercial, deal with it) holiday?!

I agree with you, Sonicron. However, I think the teacher in question should have shown a little restraint. Honesty is good but they're 2nd graders. I would think the teacher would have known from experience that messing with a belief like "Santa is real" at a young age would be like putting petrol into a fire place. It was dangerous move in the first place! XD

Edit: Someone above did say that at 8 years old they should know he doesn't exist by now, but I still think it could be a touchy subject for a few of the remaining children, you never know what type of life they live at home and how their parents treat these subjects.

I was sceptical before I started school and I got really annoyed with my parents because they wouldn't tell me (what I believed to be) the truth.

I would beg them to "just tell me" but they just said "Well if you don't believe you'll find out Christmas morning when there's no presents."

I think that's wrong.

I was constantly told at school from grade 1 onward that other kids parents had told them the truth which just annoyed me more that my parents would act so coy. I never had the guts to outright say "I don't believe" because I thought they'd just not give me presents.

In fact until the year I actually helped put out the presents I never outright told my parents I didn't believe.

I would have loved for my teacher to tell me.

In the interest of full disclosure, my girlfriend calls me the Grinch. I'm not really a fan of Christmas in it's present form.

See, this is what I'm talking about. In your case (and I've met others like you) the whole first lie devolved into a mutual lie between you and your parents. They don't want to let go of thinking of you as a gullible little kid and you don't want to stop getting presents. That's no way to live. Parents should be up front with their kids because lying to you outright undermines their authority by showing they don't respect you.

 

[ike42]

I'd say that the teacher should have deflected the question and told the kids to talk to their parents about that. Explain that there are some things their parents are better equipped to teach them. This avoids all issues.

This was effectively what I was saying that I do. At Thanksgiving my brother's in-laws all hold hands and pray, I just walk into the living room and wait it out. I don't bring it up and avoid the questions if the kids ask.

Personally, I'm surprised that you and I are about the only people commenting in this thread with such an opinion. Most of these comments seem to amount to the following.

"8 year olds still believe in Santa Claus? What children."
"I never believed in Santa. Be amazed at how cynical I am. Praise me!"
"Parents shouldn't lie to their children."

Way to go guys. We can't even let children imagine that there is a fat man in a red suit that travels all over the world and gives gifts to all the good boys and girls out there on one day a year. Because obviously that is bad and leads to communism or liberal
thoughts.

Well, I don't think people should lie to their kids, but it's not my place to interfere in anyone else's family. If I ever have kids they will not believe in Santa if I have a say in it.

 

[Lexodus]

I love their reaction. "EVIL" teacher? Oh, Fox, how do people take you seriously?
OT: I never believed in Santa, and although my grandparents attempted to convince me otherwise, my parents never pushed it on me. As a result, I valued their hard work to give my brother, sister and I what we wanted that extra bit more, since there was no magic involved.

 

[PanYue]

Hey cmon Saltyk I'm on your side too! XD

 

[fluffybunny937]

I've decided to explain to my kids that Santa is a real fictional character. Like Luke Skywalker and Harry Potter.

 

[Saltyk]

I'd say that the teacher should have deflected the question and told the kids to talk to their parents about that. Explain that there are some things their parents are better equipped to teach them. This avoids all issues.

This was effectively what I was saying that I do. At Thanksgiving my brother's in-laws all hold hands and pray, I just walk into the living room and wait it out. I don't bring it up and avoid the questions if the kids ask.

Personally, I'm surprised that you and I are about the only people commenting in this thread with such an opinion. Most of these comments seem to amount to the following.

"8 year olds still believe in Santa Claus? What children."
"I never believed in Santa. Be amazed at how cynical I am. Praise me!"
"Parents shouldn't lie to their children."

Way to go guys. We can't even let children imagine that there is a fat man in a red suit that travels all over the world and gives gifts to all the good boys and girls out there on one day a year. Because obviously that is bad and leads to communism or liberal
thoughts.

Well, I don't think people should lie to their kids, but it's not my place to interfere in anyone else's family. If I ever have kids they will not believe in Santa if I have a say in it.

That's up to you. Personally, I plan to let my (possibly future) kids believe in Santa until they ask me (or they reach an age that I think it would be appropriate to tell them). At that point, I'd simply explain that Santa is an ideal based upon a real man. That there is no person flying on magic reindeer and that the person giving him/her those gifts were actually just me and his/her mother and possibly other family members.

 

[naam]

Oh God, santa clause isn't real?!
But that's what christmas is all about!

 

[kortin]

The problem is the teacher deciding when the children should stop believing in Santa. The teacher had no place in deciding that.

First of all: Not all lies are bad. Yes, your parents told you when you were young that lying in general is bad. HARMFUL lies, like when you lie for your own personal gain is bad. If it doesn't harm anything or anyone, then its not a harmful lie. Its a white lie. White lies don't typically cause harm. They're things like Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny.

I find it sad that I, a 17 year old teenager, understand the difference between a white lie and harmful lies better than most of the apparent adults here.

 

[bakan]

Evil teacher, seriously?
Kids in second grade are old enough to understand such things and are generally pretty curious at this age, but some parents just can't stand the fact that they grow up and try to keep up these illusions.

 

[StBishop]

I'd say that the teacher should have deflected the question and told the kids to talk to their parents about that. Explain that there are some things their parents are better equipped to teach them. This avoids all issues.

This was effectively what I was saying that I do. At Thanksgiving my brother's in-laws all hold hands and pray, I just walk into the living room and wait it out. I don't bring it up and avoid the questions if the kids ask.

Personally, I'm surprised that you and I are about the only people commenting in this thread with such an opinion. Most of these comments seem to amount to the following.

"8 year olds still believe in Santa Claus? What children."
"I never believed in Santa. Be amazed at how cynical I am. Praise me!"
"Parents shouldn't lie to their children."

Way to go guys. We can't even let children imagine that there is a fat man in a red suit that travels all over the world and gives gifts to all the good boys and girls out there on one day a year. Because obviously that is bad and leads to communism or liberal thoughts.

Not quite.

I was one of the many kids who became suspicious. I wanted the truth, and I think my parents did the wrong thing by lying to me. I also think that in the large scheme of things, it doesn't fucking matter because in all other ways they were good parents.

But there is no reason to get angry at a teacher for telling the kids the truth. Sure she probably shouldn't have said anything, but really if a kid asks a direct question (which I gather wasn't the case in this scenario) they should be told the truth. They don't need all the details, but they shouldn't get an outright lie.

I agree that she should have just left it or deflected the topic, I like the idea of dodging the subject and leaving it to the parents, but I also don't think this is an atrocity.

Just quickly on those three points:
- I'm not surprised that 8 year olds believe still, I'd be surprised if they were shocked or upset at the realisation.
- I don't think it's cynicism, more scepticism. I don't thing it's that unlikely that almost everyone (who doesn't have older siblings) figures it out at around the age of 7 or 8.
- They shouldn't; but we also shouldn't be outraged by Santa, there's more pressing issues in the world.

 

[ike42]

The problem is the teacher deciding when the children should stop believing in Santa. The teacher had no place in deciding that.

First of all: Not all lies are bad. Yes, your parents told you when you were young that lying in general is bad. HARMFUL lies, like when you lie for your own personal gain is bad. If it doesn't harm anything or anyone, then its not a harmful lie. Its a white lie. White lies don't typically cause harm. They're things like Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny.

I find it sad that I, a 17 year old teenager, understand the difference between a white lie and harmful lies better than most of the apparent adults here.

It isn't a white lie because it takes advantage of the inherent gullibility of children. While I won't stop you and I don't think it's anyone's place to stop you, you can't fault someone for not wanting to be included in your lie. Children don't have the ability to distinguish between which lies are ok and which are bad so when dealing with children they should always be approached with truth, or avoidance if you're uncomfortable with the truth; not outright lies.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

proselytize

Spoiler: Off-topic

Say convert instead of using a less common synonym that makes you seem like a pseudo-intellect. Seriously, why is this so common on this site; I've seen people use progeny when they mean children. Who does that?

OT: It's childhood fun that the teacher shouldn't have ruined for them, but then again it's not as if she committed a crime. It can be resolved by telling the kids that she was wrong and then telling her to side-step the question if it's ever raised. It's hardly a massive issue.

 

[funguy2121]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/03/new-york-teacher-tells-kids-there-is-no-santa-claus

I just read this story and it made me feel bad for the teacher. On one hand people expect teachers to be honest to their kids and not to teach them anything they don't believe, but on the other there are parents that will get really upset if you try to tell their kid the truth. I personally wouldn't tell someone's kid that there is or isn't a Santa Clause, much in the same way I approach people trying to proselytize to me. I just try to change the subject.

This raises the question though, is it right to lie to your kids about Santa, or any of the other made up characters just because you think it might make the kid happier? I for one don't thinks so. I was raised with the moral value that one should always attempt to tell the truth. When I found out my parents were lying to me it made me realize that they were big hypocrites. What are your thoughts?

My parents told all three of us kids very early on that Santa was a myth and that "Santa" really meant "Mom and Dad," and all mentions of Santa afterwards were jokes. They later revealed that if they lied to us about Santa, we wouldn't believe them when they told us about Jesus. Now, I don't believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins, but that's OK, 'Rents, 'cos it is YOU who were lied to.

Still, it's a sound approach to parenting. They were, however, pragmatic enough to tell us all NEVER to talk to our friends about it...


...which I realized just now was very isolationist (albeit inadvertently) and probably bad for us in a way. I dunnoh. Just some thoughts.

 

[StBishop]

I was sceptical before I started school and I got really annoyed with my parents because they wouldn't tell me (what I believed to be) the truth.

I would beg them to "just tell me" but they just said "Well if you don't believe you'll find out Christmas morning when there's no presents."

I think that's wrong.

I was constantly told at school from grade 1 onward that other kids parents had told them the truth which just annoyed me more that my parents would act so coy. I never had the guts to outright say "I don't believe" because I thought they'd just not give me presents.

In fact until the year I actually helped put out the presents I never outright told my parents I didn't believe.

I would have loved for my teacher to tell me.

In the interest of full disclosure, my girlfriend calls me the Grinch. I'm not really a fan of Christmas in it's present form.

See, this is what I'm talking about. In your case (and I've met others like you) the whole first lie devolved into a mutual lie between you and your parents. They don't want to let go of thinking of you as a gullible little kid and you don't want to stop getting presents. That's no way to live. Parents should be up front with their kids because lying to you outright undermines their authority by showing they don't respect you.

I totally agree. It was stupid and really just childish on both of our parts and it also re-enforced both dishonest and greedy behaviour in me as a child.
I was always a greedy child anyway, I think if I'd been willing to risk losing the presents I could have solved the whole thing anyway.

 

[hoobajoob]

It's fucked up for parents to lie to their children in the first place. And let's be honest: the real reason they do it is because they find their kids' behavior while laboring under this delusion entertaining. It's like blowing pot in your dog's face - something you do for your own enjoyment, not his. Not that I own a dog to light up in front of, or that I've ever done it to anyone else's pets (I haven't). But you get my drift.

And the thing is, encouraging children to be credulous morons does real harm. From religion to anti-vaccers to supply side economics, we've got a real problem with folks who are a little too eager to believe in things just because it feels good. Easy answers are bandied about without shame because most of the population has mistaken a jolt of endorphins for compelling logic. That didn't happen in a vacuum!

Finally, the thing about all these lies parents tell children (tooth fairy, easter bunny, Santa, etc.) is that it's only going to let the child down in the end. Who here has warm fuzzy memories about the day they learned all these colorful characters don't exist? No one. It was a downer and it made the world seem that much more drab and uninteresting. There are thousands of real things out there that make the world interesting and exciting, and some of them can actually help teach children about history, science, math and the arts while simultaneously providing that same sense of awe and wonder. This nonsense with the friendly scarlet reverse robber is just wasting everyone's time. So good on the teacher, and shame on the parents.

 

[xdiesp]

St. Nicholas was very real.