Next Xbox; If not blu-ray, Then what?

[philcelery]

What games are too small to fit on DVDs? I don't think I own a single game that isn't on a single disc :S

La Noire is 3 disk.

Given the cost and general annoyance of bluray, I don't understand why anyone uses it. Flash memory is so much more versatile and works with much cheaper hardware. When ebay sells 32gb USB sticks for $~30 methinks there's absolutely no need for expensive and unnecessary blu rays or blu ray drives.

What cost and general annoyance are you referring to? It's not more than 30 dollars to make a blu-ray disk, it's several times less.

 

[C2Ultima]

Last I heard, they were toying around with their own new disc format.

 

[commiedic]

Blu-Ray is still new tech tbh. No need to replace it yet. Just wait till games get so big that it will be like FF VIII for PS1. You will have 4 blu-ray disks lol

 

[Buizel91]

On topic: Blue-ray....or USB's or something but...Blue-ray

I was thinking USB's ages ago as a format for Movies/Games, and to be honest it could easily work, i'm surprised no one has used it as a format.

OT: Blu-Ray for sure, although as stated the USB idea could easily work

I think what it boils down to is this simple fact..How many CD's can you fit in a box...how many USB's. Which is more expensive

Well usually USB's are more expensive depending how many Gigs they can hold(a 16 gig is much more expensive than a 4 gig), A USB needs what? A gig or 2 to hold a game? Not even that. I have about 3-4 on one USB and it's only a 2 gig.

 

[Dys]

What games are too small to fit on DVDs? I don't think I own a single game that isn't on a single disc :S

La Noire is 3 disk.

Fair enough lol. I genuinely hadn't come across it. Is it multidisc because there is a whole lot of content or because they didn't bother compressing the audio and video (ala metal gear solid 4).

Given the cost and general annoyance of bluray, I don't understand why anyone uses it. Flash memory is so much more versatile and works with much cheaper hardware. When ebay sells 32gb USB sticks for $~30 methinks there's absolutely no need for expensive and unnecessary blu rays or blu ray drives.

What cost and general annoyance are you referring to? It's not more than 30 dollars to make a blu-ray disk, it's several times less.

The cost of a disk is near $30 to produce, flash drives are commercially sold for less than that. On top of that, a blu ray disc drive costs however much it costs, a USB (or similar) drive costs (probably) less than $10 to produce[footnote]I don't actually know how much, but it's so standard and mass produced that I can't see it being much[/footnote]. There's also the issues associated with lost/damaged discs, faulty lasers (and hence expensive repairs) and so on (especially weak compared to digital distribution).

Honestly, I just don't see why any company without a vested interest in the technology would push blu ray.

 

[harvz]

Last I heard, they were toying around with their own new disc format.

yes, but as i understand it, the new disk format only increases the space by around 15%. not enough to avoid multiple disks all together.

i have been rather fond of the thumb drive idea. instead of buying a dvd, you buy a thumb drive that has more encryption on it than the sony's server (but then again, so does an Atari). thumb drives are much faster to read from (particularly if you decided to make a larger one with a custom interface), make it harder to duplicate, probably cost less and would cost people money to pirate games. a win for everyone.

although, im hoping steam will grace the 360's shores someday.

 

[Ferrious]

Clearly HDVDVBVD!

Though my money is on Red-ray >__>

All hail Sarge!

Seriously though, if they want to continue angling the device as the living-room god it wants to be, then it has to be Blu-Ray. Digital distribution isn't big enough to warrant losing those who think "I'd rather it played games and movies in HD".

 

[philcelery]

The cost of a disk is near $30 to produce

I think you misread something somewhere.

 

[TheFinalFantasyWolf]

I reckon Xbox getting blu-ray would be a cheap copy of PS3.

Yeh, sure, because the Xbox was a cheap copy of the PS2 and the Wii Was a cheap copy of the Xbox simply because they all used the DVD format?

Just because a system uses the same disk format doesn't mean they are cheap copy's of one another.

jeez don't all get offended at once...-_-....just saying that if they are going to market the next Xbox they should have something new to offer....not the same stuff

 

[BloodSquirrel]

In all seriousness Microsoft will probably try to "develop" a new platform or just use BD's it's tough to say. Though I like the idea of them using SDHC cards but I feel the chance for piracy would be huge.

Actually, stopping piracy would be easier if they were using some kind of ROM- they could develop a proprietary card (nothing complicated, just have it use a different pin configuration), patent it, and not let anyone sell blank copies. They could try to do the same with Blu-ray- they don't need to develop a new technology, just modify the existing one enough so that the system won't run standard Blu-ray discs.

Piracy isn't much of an issue on the console side, though. Publishers are MUCH more concerned about used games right now.

 

[Danzaivar]

There is no way Sony will let Microsoft use their technology.

Sony does own the rights to Blu-ray, right?

They're a backer in the consortium behind it. They're also in the same position with DVD's, and Microsoft uses that...

But they won't ever get their hands on Blu-ray, I bet.

Well, until it dies along with all other physical media, lol.

If Sony was going to try block Microsoft from using blu-ray, they would have tried to stop them using DVD's. They didn't.

And think about it, every game Microsoft sells, Sony makes money off the royalties. Why the hell would they stop that?

 

[Buizel91]

I reckon Xbox getting blu-ray would be a cheap copy of PS3.

Yeh, sure, because the Xbox was a cheap copy of the PS2 and the Wii Was a cheap copy of the Xbox simply because they all used the DVD format?

Just because a system uses the same disk format doesn't mean they are cheap copy's of one another.

jeez don't all get offended at once...-_-....just saying that if they are going to market the next Xbox they should have something new to offer....not the same stuff

They don't need anything new to offer though, most consoles from the late 90's to the present used the DVD format, so why can't new consoles use the Blu-Ray format, without being called a cheap copy?

 

[TheFinalFantasyWolf]

I reckon Xbox getting blu-ray would be a cheap copy of PS3.....like how both Playstation and Xbox now have motion controls like the Wii (facepalm).....Something new and original might be nice -_-.....you know, something the competitor DOESN'T have...

Is it so important now to be original that we're going to call copycat at the notion of two consoles using the same disc medium?

I'm not saying that Xbox having Blu-ray would be a "copycat" approach....I'm saying that they better have something else aswell....something new that can attract new or old customors....you know, something that already hasn't been marketed by the PS3...I mean if the new Xbox has nothing big to brag about than the fact that they are now up to date on disc medium with competitors, than THAT would be lame.....my main point was that they better have something else that other console's don't offer.

 

[BloodSquirrel]

The cost of a disk is near $30 to produce,

Better tell that to the studios selling movies on Blu-ray for $20 and less.

Also, if they did use flash, it probably wouldn't be through USB. They'd put an actual card slot (probably a proprietary one) on the console. It would be faster and cheaper than putting the required USB interface on each game they sell.

 

[BrEnNo1023]

Do what PCs do, use the hard-drive (or another type of mass storage device).

I admit it has it flaws like making pirating easer and likely increase the vigorousness of the DRM but it's an another solution to the problem without using Blu-Ray. It is gives better performance and increases the efficiency

Agreed. Using a disc to play games is a tremendous drain on resources in this day and age. With PC gaming and Steam for example being all about the digital download, people can play their games without even needing a CD tray. Services like the PS Store, Steam and MS's own Games on Demand system allow us to buy games and put them straight on the harddrive.

I'm going out on a limb and saying that perhaps the next gen XBoxes might not even have disc trays.

The benefits for consumers are quite substantial when you think about it.......then again, where does that leave businesses like Gamestop, EB Games etc? Perhaps they could start selling games on USB flash drives that console owners can simply plug into their consoles and install to their HDDs without having to download a single megabyte?

I noticed the Alienware M11x gaming laptop has no optical drive. Steam is therefore essential for this little ultraportable powerhouse (i know, you can buy USB cd drives, but I mean if you choose not to use discs). I guess i find these brainstorms quite interesting. Who knows, right? They might stick with HD DVDs, or they might buy into the Blu Ray design instead.

 

[TheFinalFantasyWolf]

I reckon Xbox getting blu-ray would be a cheap copy of PS3.

Yeh, sure, because the Xbox was a cheap copy of the PS2 and the Wii Was a cheap copy of the Xbox simply because they all used the DVD format?

Just because a system uses the same disk format doesn't mean they are cheap copy's of one another.

jeez don't all get offended at once...-_-....just saying that if they are going to market the next Xbox they should have something new to offer....not the same stuff

They don't need anything new to offer though, most consoles from the late 90's to the present used the DVD format, so why can't new consoles use the Blu-Ray format, without being called a cheap copy?

I'm not saying that Xbox having Blu-ray would be a "copycat" approach....I'm not banning the notion.....I'm saying that they better have something else aswell....something new that can attract new or old customors....you know, something that already hasn't been marketed by the PS3...I mean if the new Xbox has nothing big to brag about than the fact that they are now up to date on disc medium with competitors, than THAT would be lame.....my main point was that they better have something else that other console's don't offer.

sorry didn't wanna repeat myself but had to

 

[Dys]

The cost of a disk is near $30 to produce

I think you misread something somewhere.

A quick google search confirms that not only did I misread, but even my more liberal guesses were vastly over estimating the cost of producing a blu ray disc[footnote]Though it must be said the source of cost isn't especially official looking[/footnote] (presumably these costs are for producing them without accounting for hardware, I don't see how one could accurately calculate the cost of an unknown amount of discs including the startup costs). I can't immediately find any source suggesting the cost of producing a USB keychain, though interestingly it apparently costs something like $8000 per year, per title to have the rights to distribute media on a blu ray disc (again, I have no indication of whether or not there is a similar cost for flash drives).

At any rate, I still maintain that, even if the cost if producing a single disc is comparable, that it is still expensive and there are no shortage of alternatives that would make more sense.

The cost of a disk is near $30 to produce,

Better tell that to the studios selling movies on Blu-ray for $20 and less.

Also, if they did use flash, it probably wouldn't be through USB. They'd put an actual card slot (probably a proprietary one) on the console. It would be faster and cheaper than putting the required USB interface on each game they sell.

Yeah my random stabs at production costs were way off, I've seen a source claiming that the discs cost as little as 2c each to manufacture (which naturally means that the only costs are writing to the discs and maintaining the write drives).

I'm not sure that developing and using a proprietary drive would be cheaper than USB, though it very well could be. Even cartridge flash memory (which is quite probably what you were thinking of when you said card slot) would be a workable, cheap alternative.

 

[TheTim]

maybe they'll do Grn-Ray >_0

 

[BloodSquirrel]

A quick google search confirms that not only did I misread, but even my more liberal guesses were vastly over estimating the cost of producing a blu ray disc (presumably these costs are for producing them without accounting for hardware, I don't see how one could accurately calculate the cost of an unknown amount of discs including the startup costs). I can't immediately find any source suggesting the cost of producing a USB keychain, though interestingly it apparently costs something like $8000 per year, per title to have the rights to distribute media on a blu ray disc (again, I have no indication of whether or not there is a similar cost for flash drives).

At any rate, I still maintain that, even if the cost if producing a single disc is comparable, that it is still expensive and there are no shortage of alternatives that would make more sense.

Startup costs aren't going to be an issue- each individual studio doesn't have it's own Blu-ray printing operation, they contract it out to somebody who produces Blu-rays 24/7.