Nintendo continue to protect your eyes from disgusting female form.

[Dragonbums]

Eh. Wait till they screw up the translation, replacing chunks of text with ellipses and memesing up the dialogues, and then dismiss any crtitcism of the localisation as "those pervy weebs whining about their underage panties".

Well to be fair the biggest whining all over the internet discussion universe was underage panties. You can't really complain generalizations when the community makes that the biggest hill to die on.
Hardly anyone was talking about the memes and elipses but even one of those explanations was brought up as a good thing because the original dialogue was just repeating shit that everyone, especially TWO brothers would of already known about.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

So if i understand this correctly, Nintendo took a game from another developer and changed it for release in NA? because that is not ok at all. Developers should be allowed to show what they want in their games and publishers should do their job - publish - and keep they grubby hands off the code.

Are you just not aware of how game development works in general? Because this happens so often and so frequently that people who are against any changes don't work well AT ALL in general game development.

Plus that argument doesn't work because Nintendo owns the IP it's letting Atlus use for the game as well as FUNDING it. Atlus knew what they were getting into, they knew Nintendo would have final say on everything because that's how the world works. Trying to demonize them for modifying the game they rightfully own is silly.

 

[Flathole]

Would just like to remind everyone that the problem with the localization changes in the FE games is NOT just "omg too many clothes i can't fap to this," practically every aspect of the characters is drastically changed, presumably to avoid controversy and appease people who don't play video games anyway. In FE: Fates, the dialogue is absolutely gutted and devoid of charm. It can hardly be considered dialogue, really.

Here's what I mean: https://karasucorps.wordpress.com/tag/fire-emblem-fates/

The website is dedicated to making a fan translation of the Japanese release of Fates, and comparing it to the American release. The fan translation is a bit wonky and debatable (as translations always are), but there's a consensus on the general tone and content of the original.

Example:

Original dialogue, translated as faithfully as possible: https://karasucorps.wordpress.com/2016/04/14/fire-emblem-fates-support-conversation-eponine-x-setsuna-c/

Translation start:

Eponine: Ohohoho? I?ve had my fill for the day, I have...

After all, it?s the greatest feeling there is to watch two guys indulging in such frank and friendly flirting with each other.

I feel like I my fantasies could burst right now, plunging me into a place I?ve only dreamed of.

Setsuna: ?Welcome home, Eponine.

Eponine: Mother!? H-hello?

You didn?t hear perhaps? my little monologue, did you?

Setsuna: What? No? I couldn?t really hear what you were saying...

Eponine: Whew? Well then, that?s a relief.

Setsuna: Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you? Your room was messy, so I tidied up a bit...

Eponine: ? What? My room

Setsuna: I put all the books underneath your bed on your desk.

Eponine: Wh-wh-whaaaaat?

Th-that means my super secret, treasured books ? the ones that I had hidden?

Setsuna: ? Is something the matter?

Eponine: Y-you didn?t look inside those books!? Please tell me you didn?t look at them!?

Setsuna: Your mother has seen nothing?

And even if, hypothetically she did, you?re still her precious little girl.

Eponine: Wh-wh-what do you mean!? What exactly do you mean!? N-nooooooo!

So we learn from this that Eponine, a girl in her late teens, is really, really into Yaoi, but she's embarassed by this, and panics when she finds her mother may have read her Playgirl mags. But if her mom did, she doesn't care, probably because it's pretty damn normal for a young woman to enjoy. It's silly and kind of endearing, even if it may be out of place in a "war epic."

Now here's the EXACT SAME SCENE, "localized" for English audiences. Eponine's name was changed to Nina, because I guess Western audiences' heads will explode if a name sounds too foreign, or something. (http://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Fates_Supports)/Setsuna_Nina%28PC%29

Nina: Mmm...that was really something. The way those men were chatting like old friends... What could they have been talking about? The mind wanders...

Setsuna: Oh...hi, Nina.

Nina: Gah! Mother?! What are you doing here? I thought you were training! You didn't hear me talking about...stuff... Did you?

Setsuna: Stuff? No...I don't think I heard any stuff. Were you talking about stuff? Want to hear what my favorite stuff is?

Nina: Nope! Don't worry about it! Whew...

Setsuna: Oh yeah...I was looking for something in your room, and I kept tripping over things. I cleaned up a little so there'd be less mess to ambush me.

Nina: Mother! That's my private space.

Setsuna: All the book traps you had out on your floor are on your shelf now. Sorry...

Nina: Oh my gods, oh my gods, oh my gods... PLEASE tell me you didn't open any of those books...

Setsuna: Does it matter that much?

Nina: My diaries and journals, Mother! Did you read them or didn't you?

Setsuna: Nah...I was too woozy from the falls. But it's OK, Nina. You'd still be my daughter even if I had read them.

Nina: What's that supposed to mean? It sounds like you DID read them! Well? Did you or didn't you? ARRRRGH!

From this we learn that Eponine/Nina is upset that her mom cleaned her room and Nina outright states that she suspects her mom may have read her diaries/journals, but since the viewer really has no clue about their content it's all pretty pointless. (It's later revealed that they're apparently ALL about Nina's awkwardness when trying to talk to boys). Compared to the original, this version of the dialogue feels boring and outright pointless. The conversation is so generic and bland it could be taken verbatim from literally any story involving a teenager and their parent.


So, in the original we have a silly, quirky, story with a splash of "Oh Japan!" In the official English translation we have bare-bones, generic, repetitive dialogue without any identity.

And considering #FE is shaping up to have tighter character focus and be a more story-driven, "traditional" RPG (it is an Atlus game, after all), having awful and meaningless dialogue would be a death sentence.

 

[Strazdas]

What is the number of the parallel Earth you are posting this from?

Publishers have been messing with studios work (usually forcing the studio to make the change) since probably the moment they stopped just having an internal development pool.

Happpens often is not an excuse. Just because other people do it as well it does not stop being a bad thing to do.

Are you just not aware of how game development works in general? Because this happens so often and so frequently that people who are against any changes don't work well AT ALL in general game development.

This is not a case of game developmental changes though. If it were it would be changed for all versions, not only for NA release.

 

[Fulbert]

Hardly anyone was talking about the memes and elipses but even one of those explanations was brought up as a good thing because the original dialogue was just repeating shit that everyone, especially TWO brothers would of already known about.

If they can't be bothered to translate things why are they in the translation business anyway? It sort of reminds me of a Russian fan translation of that ancient Neverhood game. There was a literal wall of text in the game telling the backstory of the world. As in, a literal 20+ screens worth of a corridor with tales of the place etched on the walls. The translators weren't up to translating all this and instead filled the walls with random jokes found on the Internet. They even said - right there on the wall - that they tried translating all that lore but decided the players wouldn't care reading it.

But that was a fan-made joke translation made by unqualified people and not approved by the developer or the publisher. I didn't know Nintendo localisation team sported the same level of professionalism.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Would just like to remind everyone that the problem with the localization changes in the FE games is NOT just "omg too many clothes i can't fap to this," practically every aspect of the characters is drastically changed, presumably to avoid controversy and appease people who don't play video games anyway. In FE: Fates, the dialogue is absolutely gutted and devoid of charm. It can hardly be considered dialogue, really.

Here's what I mean: https://karasucorps.wordpress.com/tag/fire-emblem-fates/

The website is dedicated to making a fan translation of the Japanese release of Fates, and comparing it to the American release. The fan translation is a bit wonky and debatable (as translations always are), but there's a consensus on the general tone and content of the original.

Example:

Original dialogue, translated as faithfully as possible: https://karasucorps.wordpress.com/2016/04/14/fire-emblem-fates-support-conversation-eponine-x-setsuna-c/

Translation start:

Eponine: Ohohoho? I?ve had my fill for the day, I have...

After all, it?s the greatest feeling there is to watch two guys indulging in such frank and friendly flirting with each other.

I feel like I my fantasies could burst right now, plunging me into a place I?ve only dreamed of.

Setsuna: ?Welcome home, Eponine.

Eponine: Mother!? H-hello?

You didn?t hear perhaps? my little monologue, did you?

Setsuna: What? No? I couldn?t really hear what you were saying...

Eponine: Whew? Well then, that?s a relief.

Setsuna: Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you? Your room was messy, so I tidied up a bit...

Eponine: ? What? My room

Setsuna: I put all the books underneath your bed on your desk.

Eponine: Wh-wh-whaaaaat?

Th-that means my super secret, treasured books ? the ones that I had hidden?

Setsuna: ? Is something the matter?

Eponine: Y-you didn?t look inside those books!? Please tell me you didn?t look at them!?

Setsuna: Your mother has seen nothing?

And even if, hypothetically she did, you?re still her precious little girl.

Eponine: Wh-wh-what do you mean!? What exactly do you mean!? N-nooooooo!

So we learn from this that Eponine, a girl in her late teens, is really, really into Yaoi, but she's embarassed by this, and panics when she finds her mother may have read her Playgirl mags. But if her mom did, she doesn't care, probably because it's pretty damn normal for a young woman to enjoy. It's silly and kind of endearing, even if it may be out of place in a "war epic."

Now here's the EXACT SAME SCENE, "localized" for English audiences. Eponine's name was changed to Nina, because I guess Western audiences' heads will explode if a name sounds too foreign, or something. (http://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Fates_Supports)/Setsuna_Nina%28PC%29

Nina: Mmm...that was really something. The way those men were chatting like old friends... What could they have been talking about? The mind wanders...

Setsuna: Oh...hi, Nina.

Nina: Gah! Mother?! What are you doing here? I thought you were training! You didn't hear me talking about...stuff... Did you?

Setsuna: Stuff? No...I don't think I heard any stuff. Were you talking about stuff? Want to hear what my favorite stuff is?

Nina: Nope! Don't worry about it! Whew...

Setsuna: Oh yeah...I was looking for something in your room, and I kept tripping over things. I cleaned up a little so there'd be less mess to ambush me.

Nina: Mother! That's my private space.

Setsuna: All the book traps you had out on your floor are on your shelf now. Sorry...

Nina: Oh my gods, oh my gods, oh my gods... PLEASE tell me you didn't open any of those books...

Setsuna: Does it matter that much?

Nina: My diaries and journals, Mother! Did you read them or didn't you?

Setsuna: Nah...I was too woozy from the falls. But it's OK, Nina. You'd still be my daughter even if I had read them.

Nina: What's that supposed to mean? It sounds like you DID read them! Well? Did you or didn't you? ARRRRGH!

From this we learn that Eponine/Nina is upset that her mom cleaned her room and Nina outright states that she suspects her mom may have read her diaries/journals, but since the viewer really has no clue about their content it's all pretty pointless. (It's later revealed that they're apparently ALL about Nina's awkwardness when trying to talk to boys). Compared to the original, this version of the dialogue feels boring and outright pointless. The conversation is so generic and bland it could be taken verbatim from literally any story involving a teenager and their parent.


So, in the original we have a silly, quirky, story with a splash of "Oh Japan!" In the official English translation we have bare-bones, generic, repetitive dialogue without any identity.

And considering #FE is shaping up to have tighter character focus and be a more story-driven, "traditional" RPG (it is an Atlus game, after all), having awful and meaningless dialogue would be a death sentence.

Reminds me a scene in Bravely Second where Magnolia says something alon the lines of "I need your help to defeat this" and is met with "Of course, we're comrades after all!" but the localization subs had her say "even if I'm alone I have to fight" and is met with "no way we are gonna help you too".


The thing is that up to this part there had been numerous team spirit building moments already so in their attempt to make the already PLENTY badass heroine seem strong and independant they made her out to be oddly cold and detached, which couldn't be further from her warm actual personality. Oh and its Maou, like the disgaea maou, evil demon king/overlord, not ba al. I love puns but they ruin some serious moments the way they are used if you don't know JP.

Learn Japanese and pray nintendo doesn't cut the dual audio or region lock their systems people, its all I can say.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Hardly anyone was talking about the memes and elipses but even one of those explanations was brought up as a good thing because the original dialogue was just repeating shit that everyone, especially TWO brothers would of already known about.

If they can't be bothered to translate things why are they in the translation business anyway? It sort of reminds me of a Russian fan translation of that ancient Neverhood game. There was a literal wall of text in the game telling the backstory of the world. As in, a literal 20+ screens worth of a corridor with tales of the place etched on the walls. The translators weren't up to translating all this and instead filled the walls with random jokes found on the Internet. They even said - right there on the wall - that they tried translating all that lore but decided the players wouldn't care reading it.

But that was a fan-made joke translation made by unqualified people and not approved by the developer or the publisher. I didn't know Nintendo localisation team sported the same level of professionalism.

On the one hand, you're right; on the other hand I developed an eye-twitch whenever I had to read the phrase "in other words" in subtitled DBZ.

 

[Something Amyss]

Are you just not aware of how game development works in general? Because this happens so often and so frequently that people who are against any changes don't work well AT ALL in general game development.

Not only that, but Nintendo's been doing this with games since the NES.

And to an extent, no post-83 console has allowed complete freedom. At least, no major one. I'm sure there was some Dreamstation or PlayBox that did.

 

[Weaver]

All I can say is as a total weeb and someone excited for this game, I'm disappointed in the changes. I will likely not buy the game as a result. Just as I did not buy the new Fire Emblem due to the removal of petting (which is in miitomo of all things by the way) and the complete and utter butchering of the dialog.

I had planned on buying Mirage Sessions on launch, now I'll be waiting to see the game in action and see how the dialog is translated. Changing the costumes is a kind of canary for me that they might have totally altered the tone of the dialog.

I get they think changing it to appeal to Western sensibilities will improve sales, but you've made a JRPG where you're an anime idol group singing a concert fighting monsters on stage. The game doesn't even have an English dub. You have to play it in Japanese.

This thing is so far and away already from Western taste I see no point in lying to yourselves about who wants to buy this.

This is just my personal opinion and feelings on the matter. You can tell me how much I'm "raging" (I'm not) or how my dislike of the changes to a product make me not want to buy it is "blowing it out or proportion" - but this is how I feel about it. It's kind of just a principal of the matter thing for me.

 

[Dragonbums]

If they can't be bothered to translate things why are they in the translation business anyway?

They are called localizers not translators. This makes no sense. They translated the text from Japanese to English. By that very nature they 'translated it'. However I see no sense in getting upset over the dialogue of two ninja characters that just amounted to them literally repeating the same shit that everyone already knew about.
You want purism to a literal T than you can simply learn Japanese yourself and get the game that way. But localization is never 1:1 translations and ones who do that tend to have dialogue that is either lost on the foreign market or completely flat.

 

[Dragonbums]

Are you just not aware of how game development works in general? Because this happens so often and so frequently that people who are against any changes don't work well AT ALL in general game development.

Not only that, but Nintendo's been doing this with games since the NES.

And to an extent, no post-83 console has allowed complete freedom. At least, no major one. I'm sure there was some Dreamstation or PlayBox that did.

It's more than just Nintendo. They are simply the ones that get the most flak for it.

I mean, Bethesda- when exporting Fallout 4 to Japan outright omitted any and all references to nuclear weapons and bombings. Hell they even TOOK OUT a quest directly related to a nuke. And yet, Destructoid- the forefront of the Nintendo 'censorship' rage machine didn't even write an article on it. And the art vision purists certainly weren't there to rain down their righteous rage on Bethesda for daring to cater to the sensitivities of Japan when it comes to nuclear weapons.

As a creative individual this is why this whole mantra of 'pure vision' and censorship is utter hogwash. Most of the people championing this simply don't want to admit it has nothing to do with any of that and everything to do with being hyper sensitive about any removal of female sexual titillation and Nintendo/Capcom/Blizzard ANYONE who takes that away from them are put into the firing range.

 

[Dragonbums]

This is not a case of game developmental changes though. If it were it would be changed for all versions, not only for NA release.

Yes it is. These new outfits were very obviously done in studio because they know that this is part of the localization process. You and your fellows can continue to plug your ears and believe it's all a censorship scam by the meanie corporate but that doesn't change the facts.
Shit like this highlights how absolutely little the gaming community has any fucking clue about how game development works but like to fling shit at them constantly about things they don't know about.

 

[Leg End]

I mean, Bethesda- when exporting Fallout 4 to Japan outright omitted any and all references to nuclear weapons and bombings.

...How?
I knew Fallout 3 altered the names of the nuke launcher and such but, how in the world do you remove all references to nuclear war in a game that takes place in a nuclear wasteland after a nuclear war?

Yes it is. These new outfits were very obviously done in studio because they know that this is part of the localization process. You and your fellows can continue to plug your ears and believe it's all a censorship scam by the meanie corporate but that doesn't change the facts.

That it still had no point and is a waste of resources? You'd be right on that.

 

[Strazdas]

This is not a case of game developmental changes though. If it were it would be changed for all versions, not only for NA release.

Yes it is. These new outfits were very obviously done in studio because they know that this is part of the localization process. You and your fellows can continue to plug your ears and believe it's all a censorship scam by the meanie corporate but that doesn't change the facts.
Shit like this highlights how absolutely little the gaming community has any fucking clue about how game development works but like to fling shit at them constantly about things they don't know about.

That it was doe in studio and that they knew about it does not make it any less wrong. I dont know who you refer to as my fellows but as far as i am concerned if somone is censoring a game for a certain locale then that is very much censorship i do not agree with.

Oh, no, i know how it works, i just think its bullshit and should change. "it happens all the time" is not an excuse.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

If they can't be bothered to translate things why are they in the translation business anyway?

They are called localizers not translators. This makes no sense. They translated the text from Japanese to English. By that very nature they 'translated it'. However I see no sense in getting upset over the dialogue of two ninja characters that just amounted to them literally repeating the same shit that everyone already knew about.
You want purism to a literal T than you can simply learn Japanese yourself and get the game that way. But localization is never 1:1 translations and ones who do that tend to have dialogue that is either lost on the foreign market or completely flat.

Localization implies that someone thought westerners would like the new stuff more.

The problem is, who is the arbiter of this, with sex stuff you have your usual suspects when someone decides to be offended but with these kinds of changes it is super nebulous.

There can be a thing such as bad localization and a way it can be bad is mistranslation or watering down of the original story. A lot of times there's changes where there is no meaningful difference. In those cases, why not keep the original line.


Oh and even when I know Japanese I can't get the jp games cause nintendo freaking region locks their systems now, unlike the ds which was region free, so that solution isn't viable unless you expect people to buy multiple systems which is unreasonable.

 

[Weaver]

Nnew reports came in from gamezone on Mirage Sessions yesterday:

1) Costume swaps and re-skins are throughout the game, not just that scene.

2) Dialog is changed. How did they change the dialog in a game that doesn't even have an English? They got the Japanese VAs to perform specific lines just for North America. This sounds awful.

 

[Fulbert]

If they can't be bothered to translate things why are they in the translation business anyway?

They are called localizers not translators. This makes no sense. They translated the text from Japanese to English. By that very nature they 'translated it'. However I see no sense in getting upset over the dialogue of two ninja characters that just amounted to them literally repeating the same shit that everyone already knew about.
You want purism to a literal T than you can simply learn Japanese yourself and get the game that way. But localization is never 1:1 translations and ones who do that tend to have dialogue that is either lost on the foreign market or completely flat.

If you don't like the writing in a videogame you are free to click through it. Whether or not to read through "the dialogue of two ninja characters that just amounted to them literally repeating the same shit that everyone already knew about" should be the decision of the player, not some half-wit too lazy to do their goddamn job.

I mean, sure, maybe that is a cultural thing, maybe the thinking behind butchering the dialogues went something like this, "Those dialogues are too much for the young Americans' attention span so let's cut them in half and meme up the rest." But why do the rest of the English-speaking FE fans have to suffer because of the American ADD problem? It's not likely that the European version will have a separate professional translation now that the American one is out.

 

[Dragonbums]

That it was doe in studio and that they knew about it does not make it any less wrong.

It's only wrong to people who don't know what they are talking about in game development.
Nobody gives a solitary fuck about changes they have to make in the game. Neither the devs, the creative teams, or the people who make the changes. It's part of the job and if you think it's morally wrong there is always the indie scene or you can- you know- not participate in anything creative. Because I hate to break reality to you- this is how it works.

somone is censoring a game for a certain locale then that is very much censorship i do not agree with.

This happens with literally every medium. The game wasn't 'censored' it was altered. Nobody not a government entity or some nebulous law forced Nintendo's hand to do this. They did it because they wanted to. And if you disagree with it fine take your money elsewhere.

i just think its bullshit and should change. "it happens all the time" is not an excuse.

No it shouldn't. People who hold this view tend to be the worst creative people out there. Because they are so beholden to their total original idea that they cannot and do not want to consider every changing it until THEY think somehting needs or has to be changed.
This is how you get the Tim Buckleys of the world.

 

[Dragonbums]

They got the Japanese VAs to perform specific lines just for North America. This sounds awful.

Why? That simply means they are getting paid more money to do unnecessary work. Do you think Nintendo just pays them in Ramen Noodles? Do you honestly think the VA's give two shits?

 

[Weaver]

They got the Japanese VAs to perform specific lines just for North America. This sounds awful.

Why? That simply means they are getting paid more money to do unnecessary work. Do you think Nintendo just pays them in Ramen Noodles? Do you honestly think the VA's give two shits?

It's not awful for the VA's - it's awful for the people who thought they were getting the actual Japanese release. It's a double whammy given the marketing on Nintendo direct as this essentially being an authentic Japanese game for western players who like Japanese games. Given the treatment of the dialog in the latest FE game I'm not optimistic these were good changes.

edit: and for what it's worth: Seiyu in Japan are paid very, very poorly unless you're an A rank - and not many people are. Even big names like Kaneda Tomoko aren't considered top ranking.