Nintendo "Frustrated" By Chinatown Wars Sales
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The controls on the DS version very rarely used the touchpad, one reason I wasn't surprised it was ported to the PSP.Doug said:
The game was very good, albeit quite short. The view was absolutely fine, it was just a very zoomed out 3rd person view if you squint.
The real problem is that China Town Wars looks and plays like an old game.
It looks like a shitty 3d rendered GTA2.
It's a nice nostalgic touch to those of us who played it back then... but that nostalgia isn't enough for us to pick it up, and it looks too shitty for the newer people to pick up. It was a game without a reliable audience.
It looks like a shitty 3d rendered GTA2.
It's a nice nostalgic touch to those of us who played it back then... but that nostalgia isn't enough for us to pick it up, and it looks too shitty for the newer people to pick up. It was a game without a reliable audience.
It's probably the market demographics, the same crowd that likes the DS is not going to be the same crowd that likes the GTA. (statistically)
It's actually a pretty good game, especially given the hardware it has to work with. And comparing it to the original 2D GTA is a complete oversimplification. I played the original GTA, guys- this was a game where getting shot once killed you and little bounus points sparkled up on the screen when you ran over pedestrians. You can kind of see where GTA 3 came from in it, but as a game the original GTA is an innovative and fascinating trainwreck. By contrast, Chinatown Wars is a game where you could almost believe it would be a 3D game if you could unlock some cheat code to get the camera to rotate downward. It has a fair amount of depth and variety in things to do and ways to do them, and the visual look of the streets and cars, while not blow-you-out-of-the-water, is really quite good for the DS's capabilities and certainly better than functional.
If there were two major criticisms I'd make, it's the driving controls (one pixel is the difference between a huge accident and scraping by without loss of momentum- not the best fit for the directional pad) and the plot. I have the same problem with a lot of the GTA games, really; I keep asking silly questions like "Why is my character *doing* this, especially for *this* person?" In Chinatown Wars, the protaganist would quite literally save himself a world of grief and shorten the game by a few hours if he started shooting people in the face the second or third time they insult him and threaten to kill him, rather than accepting their missions despite the ill-treatment. Seriously, Huang- grow a pair!
Now, I have a perfectly legitimate copy of the game. I don't really know how prominent piracy is on the DS (and I'm happy to hear any hard statistics anyone might have, but I'm not really interested in anyone's say-so), but I find it hard to believe that OF the portion of the DS's sales that is teens to adults, and OF the portion of that who are interested in GTA, that the majority of those are hardcore pirates. But there is a problem with any console game with a "long tail", especially one that doesn't necessarily have a lot of replay value (and honestly, the non-plotted side-quests in CW didn't really do that much for me) is that it's easy to get the game used, like I did. And used copies don't really show up on sales charts.
So, yes, it's a top-down GTA game, one with slightly cartoonish cel-shaded graphics, and that may have turned some people off despite the good reviews. And it's a mature game on a system that does a lot of business with the teen-to-tween crowd, whose parents by now have probably finally gotten it through their heads that a GTA's "M" rating is something they should take seriously. And frankly, even in the few ads I did see, it's hard to get across just what playing the thing is like; how much of the GTA "experience" it manages to squeeze in. Instead we get stereotypical asian music and cartoonish pictures of the characters, not exactly something to sell the thing to anyone. It's also a game that frequently sells for upwards of thirty bucks on a system with many good titles available for much less.
All I can finally say is that it's a shame if it's mediocre sales causes other manufacturers to shy away from games on the system geared towards adults that feature some depth and complexity.
If there were two major criticisms I'd make, it's the driving controls (one pixel is the difference between a huge accident and scraping by without loss of momentum- not the best fit for the directional pad) and the plot. I have the same problem with a lot of the GTA games, really; I keep asking silly questions like "Why is my character *doing* this, especially for *this* person?" In Chinatown Wars, the protaganist would quite literally save himself a world of grief and shorten the game by a few hours if he started shooting people in the face the second or third time they insult him and threaten to kill him, rather than accepting their missions despite the ill-treatment. Seriously, Huang- grow a pair!
Now, I have a perfectly legitimate copy of the game. I don't really know how prominent piracy is on the DS (and I'm happy to hear any hard statistics anyone might have, but I'm not really interested in anyone's say-so), but I find it hard to believe that OF the portion of the DS's sales that is teens to adults, and OF the portion of that who are interested in GTA, that the majority of those are hardcore pirates. But there is a problem with any console game with a "long tail", especially one that doesn't necessarily have a lot of replay value (and honestly, the non-plotted side-quests in CW didn't really do that much for me) is that it's easy to get the game used, like I did. And used copies don't really show up on sales charts.
So, yes, it's a top-down GTA game, one with slightly cartoonish cel-shaded graphics, and that may have turned some people off despite the good reviews. And it's a mature game on a system that does a lot of business with the teen-to-tween crowd, whose parents by now have probably finally gotten it through their heads that a GTA's "M" rating is something they should take seriously. And frankly, even in the few ads I did see, it's hard to get across just what playing the thing is like; how much of the GTA "experience" it manages to squeeze in. Instead we get stereotypical asian music and cartoonish pictures of the characters, not exactly something to sell the thing to anyone. It's also a game that frequently sells for upwards of thirty bucks on a system with many good titles available for much less.
All I can finally say is that it's a shame if it's mediocre sales causes other manufacturers to shy away from games on the system geared towards adults that feature some depth and complexity.
I can sense the flames coming on, but I'm going to be blunt and say what needs to be said:
This game didn't do well because it was a joke. Most people sitting down to play a GTA game are expecting a truely mature experience, and really the graphics on a DS can't really convey that. Not to mention the fact that Rockstar seemed to be in their "icy" phase from Hot Coffee when this was released, which means it wasn't all that warped. Compared to say San Andreas a lot of people have been saying that both GTA IV and Chinatown Wars were extremely tame. The recent release of the AO version of Manhunt 2 (albiet for PC) might say good things for the future though. Really the most touchy thing in it is delivering drugs.
Given the graphics there is no real graphic violence, there isn't much sex except for some offcolor comments, and the only real female character in the game gets killed early on.
Yes, you committ crimes, and play a drug dealing version of "Elite" but in the end this game probably used the "M" label specifically to be marketed as "OMG, an M rated game for the DS". With a little bit of guts this game probably could have been dropped to a 'T' rating easily.
On top of that it seems that a lot of the criticisms about GTA IV and Chinatown wars is that a lot of people just don't empathize with the un-American protaganists. Being a mobster/mercenary/gangsta can have some crime-drama, anti-hero cred. However in those games the foreigners like Triads, and Russian Mobsters are the bad guys. Part of the appeal and what justifies some of the actions to the players is that they are going after bigger bad guys, in a sort of social vengeance for certain things that are happening IRL. Not mature, not nice, and some might even call it bigoted, but that's simply the way it is. I guess it can be argued as rooting for "our" crooks over "their" crooks trying to muscle in on the US. In Chinatown wars the "hero" is from outside the country, and in GTA IV he's an illegal immigrant at a time when that's a touchy issue, no matter what the storyline is. Neither got any kind of real anti-hero cred.
I expect many to disagree, but consider that in general even a lot of the GTA community consider San Andreas or Vice City to be the highlights of the series. While there are people who defend Nico's ethnicity/immigration, a lot of people also dislike the whole eastern european illegal thing. With Chinatown Wars I can't think of anyone who ever claimed they liked the protaganist at all.
In the end I think there are a lot of reasons why Chinatown Wars sort of flopped. It was a well intentioned, quality product. But I think in the end it just didn't 'click' with a lot of people as either an "M" game or one they could empathize with.
This game didn't do well because it was a joke. Most people sitting down to play a GTA game are expecting a truely mature experience, and really the graphics on a DS can't really convey that. Not to mention the fact that Rockstar seemed to be in their "icy" phase from Hot Coffee when this was released, which means it wasn't all that warped. Compared to say San Andreas a lot of people have been saying that both GTA IV and Chinatown Wars were extremely tame. The recent release of the AO version of Manhunt 2 (albiet for PC) might say good things for the future though. Really the most touchy thing in it is delivering drugs.
Given the graphics there is no real graphic violence, there isn't much sex except for some offcolor comments, and the only real female character in the game gets killed early on.
Yes, you committ crimes, and play a drug dealing version of "Elite" but in the end this game probably used the "M" label specifically to be marketed as "OMG, an M rated game for the DS". With a little bit of guts this game probably could have been dropped to a 'T' rating easily.
On top of that it seems that a lot of the criticisms about GTA IV and Chinatown wars is that a lot of people just don't empathize with the un-American protaganists. Being a mobster/mercenary/gangsta can have some crime-drama, anti-hero cred. However in those games the foreigners like Triads, and Russian Mobsters are the bad guys. Part of the appeal and what justifies some of the actions to the players is that they are going after bigger bad guys, in a sort of social vengeance for certain things that are happening IRL. Not mature, not nice, and some might even call it bigoted, but that's simply the way it is. I guess it can be argued as rooting for "our" crooks over "their" crooks trying to muscle in on the US. In Chinatown wars the "hero" is from outside the country, and in GTA IV he's an illegal immigrant at a time when that's a touchy issue, no matter what the storyline is. Neither got any kind of real anti-hero cred.
I expect many to disagree, but consider that in general even a lot of the GTA community consider San Andreas or Vice City to be the highlights of the series. While there are people who defend Nico's ethnicity/immigration, a lot of people also dislike the whole eastern european illegal thing. With Chinatown Wars I can't think of anyone who ever claimed they liked the protaganist at all.
In the end I think there are a lot of reasons why Chinatown Wars sort of flopped. It was a well intentioned, quality product. But I think in the end it just didn't 'click' with a lot of people as either an "M" game or one they could empathize with.
http://vgchartz.com/swlaunch.php?reg1=All&game1=Grand+Theft+Auto%3A+Chinatown+Wars+-+DS[24661]®2=All&game2=Call+of+Duty%3A+World+at+War+-+DS[23989]®3=All&game3=&weeks=100
This source from VGChartz Chinatown Wars on DS is already outselling COD: World At War DS and has (in only two thirds the time) sold TWICE as many copies, to a 37 week total of 805'000 copies which is a lodda enchiladas for such a simple game that likely was very cheap to develop.
Again, Nintendo's complaints just make no sense. Chinatown wars is also selling much faster on DS than on the PSP.
This source from VGChartz Chinatown Wars on DS is already outselling COD: World At War DS and has (in only two thirds the time) sold TWICE as many copies, to a 37 week total of 805'000 copies which is a lodda enchiladas for such a simple game that likely was very cheap to develop.
Again, Nintendo's complaints just make no sense. Chinatown wars is also selling much faster on DS than on the PSP.
GTA:CW is one of the best and most impressive DS games I ever played. To me, its marketing seemded to be only half-assed and "the stupid cool kids" (it is up to you to imagine what kind of gamers that could be...) might have disliked it´s classic topdown view or the DS itself.
Dont be a pussy about the touch controlls, they worked very well and offered some very, very clever moments like setting up sniper rifles or handling the handy ingame PDA.
BTW: Is it doing better on the PSP right now ?
Dont be a pussy about the touch controlls, they worked very well and offered some very, very clever moments like setting up sniper rifles or handling the handy ingame PDA.
BTW: Is it doing better on the PSP right now ?
I'm not going to say that it's a shame for one reason. I know that it exists and I do not want it myself.
For me to buy a piece of DS software it has to be something that looks really different or something that I can play in short bursts. Old school GTA isn't either of those.
For me to buy a piece of DS software it has to be something that looks really different or something that I can play in short bursts. Old school GTA isn't either of those.
How often do I hear of some game they're disappointed didn't sell to expectations...and I've never heard of the game before then?
10 years ago there was none of this 'hardcore' crap. In 1999 pretty much all gaming was looked upon the way you look at 'casual' gaming. Lets not forget who brought LOZ: OOT, Goldeneye 64, Conker's bad fur day, Super mario 64, etc...GamingAwesome1 said:
And you cant say the ds is exclusively for little girls and moms. The ds didnt get all this shovelware crap until it sold a good number of units. How did it sell a good amount of units? Super mario ds, Ridge racer ds, the promise of a whole new way to play. Dont pretend ds lauched with hello kitty and Horsez games left and right. To this day there are still Standouts like TWEWY, Advance wars, kirby, pokemon, Phoenix Wright, etc...
I can see you say that for the wii, as early on nintendo showed they switched markets to the untapped masses, but I wont stand here and let you pretend the gamecube, ds, and gba were filled with cooking games for the last 10 years and thats why no one wants to play 'hardcore' games on it. The game not selling as much as they wanted has nothing to do with shovelware that invariably comes with bestselling consoles. Remember how much crap the holy and revered ps2 had? Strawberry Shortcake adventures anyone? Dora the explorer undercover agents ring a bell? Its because with over 100 million units sold, if 1 in 1000 bought their game on a whim at target for their kids or whatever they'd sell 100,000 copies of a cheaply made, pure profit game. and if the ps3 ever gets past 50 million units you can bet it will have see some shovelware too.
And even adding to this, ever since that nonsense started, people seem to think mature = good. Which is bullshit. And I stand by this.AceDiamond said:
This post failed five times, one was your opinion which you're entitled to, the rest was because GTA: Chinatown Wars was not released on the Gameboy. Jesus.danpascooch said:
I haven't been a fan of the GTA series since GTA 2 (I liked the 2D perspective), so I wasn't planning on getting Chinatown Wars myself, nor did I spend any time researching it. As far as I was aware, the game was just an offshoot of the existing series.
I saw a fair bit of promotion for this game on The Escapist, but nowhere else. From what I'd seen, I expected it was just a simplified version of something like GTA IV, scaled-down to be viable on the DS. From my experience, few TV console games work well when ported to the DS, so I try to avoid them.
I agree that this was poorly marketed, but in a few different ways:
* A large part of the DS market likely isn't interested in the GTA series. They picked the wrong demographic.
* The game is apparently nothing like the other current-generation GTA games. They gave the wrong message by using the GTA name.
* The regular console GTA games would be nearly unplayable on the DS. Again, they gave the wrong message.
* Apart from The Escapist, I didn't see this game advertised anywhere. They either didn't market it enough or not in the right places.
* It was released in March. Most AAA titles release in late fall so that they will be big sellers at Christmas.
Also, the VGChartz data that somebody posted contradicts what Nintendo claims. Not only did they sell over 250k units in the first month, but they are currently over 800k. That may not be amazing sales for a AAA title, but at $30 a hit, that's a lot of cash. What more do they want?
I'd say, for all of the mistakes they made with marketing this game, they did quite well for themselves. The world is in recession and game developers are dropping left and right. If you're one of the lucky bastards sitting on a small fortune, this isn't the time to be complaining that you expect more.
I saw a fair bit of promotion for this game on The Escapist, but nowhere else. From what I'd seen, I expected it was just a simplified version of something like GTA IV, scaled-down to be viable on the DS. From my experience, few TV console games work well when ported to the DS, so I try to avoid them.
I agree that this was poorly marketed, but in a few different ways:
* A large part of the DS market likely isn't interested in the GTA series. They picked the wrong demographic.
* The game is apparently nothing like the other current-generation GTA games. They gave the wrong message by using the GTA name.
* The regular console GTA games would be nearly unplayable on the DS. Again, they gave the wrong message.
* Apart from The Escapist, I didn't see this game advertised anywhere. They either didn't market it enough or not in the right places.
* It was released in March. Most AAA titles release in late fall so that they will be big sellers at Christmas.
Also, the VGChartz data that somebody posted contradicts what Nintendo claims. Not only did they sell over 250k units in the first month, but they are currently over 800k. That may not be amazing sales for a AAA title, but at $30 a hit, that's a lot of cash. What more do they want?
I'd say, for all of the mistakes they made with marketing this game, they did quite well for themselves. The world is in recession and game developers are dropping left and right. If you're one of the lucky bastards sitting on a small fortune, this isn't the time to be complaining that you expect more.
