Not a big deal Realy. I mean unless YOU ARE GOING TO USE IT its not going to effect how you play the game.
Nintendo's Ungaming
- Thread starter Shamus Young
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I hear that.LimaBravo said:Indeed have you noticed that difficulty level means even less these days. The AI doesnt change at all just a damage modifier (*see COD4:MW, frikken ferris wheel).
That map wasn't difficult.
It was unfair.
Or rather, still is. 40 attempts and counting. Closest one was dying on the fecking entrace platform to the damned chopper. I almost started cutting myself.
Yeah but you see with things like tales of Symphonia you never really WANTED to put the game on auto for the battles as the immersion was half the job with the RPG elements, shoving this into the undubidably fustrating mario platformer formula is just asking for it, it'll be abused and everyone will quickly get bored. Hell with Tales 4 of my friends alternated controlling the different characters and we had a blast taking the piss out of every character while mashing buttons with the battles. And hell the Symphonia battle system was smooth and fun and it knew it... Still have nightmares of my friend jason cackling with glee each time he refused Raine's healing my way. Bastard.
I remain steadfast in my belief that this idea is so bad it borders on the patronizing.
My little brother can at least complete a few levels in the old Sonic 2D games... and If I'm remembering correctly my mum used to have Warioland on the gameboy and would spend hours completeing each level... Nintendo you really don't have to stoop this low...really...the casual gamers are going to leave you eventually I'm sorry...it's like some desperate plea in the form of an embaressing dance.
Hey hey! Look look, it can play ITSELF now! Look!
I remain steadfast in my belief that this idea is so bad it borders on the patronizing.
My little brother can at least complete a few levels in the old Sonic 2D games... and If I'm remembering correctly my mum used to have Warioland on the gameboy and would spend hours completeing each level... Nintendo you really don't have to stoop this low...really...the casual gamers are going to leave you eventually I'm sorry...it's like some desperate plea in the form of an embaressing dance.
Hey hey! Look look, it can play ITSELF now! Look!
I wouldnt care about whatever nintendo does simple because I dont give them my money. But it just seems to me that they are taking something out of videogames with this idea. And that something is a Sense of accomplishment. When my roommate and I beat Halo 2 on legendary with skulls on. We were so proud of ourselves we had a party.
Personally I think its a dumb idea. Why would anyone buy a game they dont have to play? They might as well buy a movie. they are like a 1/4th of the price. Anyway im used to nintendo throwing all its money into gimmicks that people buy then instantly regret. Im just waiting for that day when they make a sonic game that noone will buy.
In short, its a shit idea.
Personally I think its a dumb idea. Why would anyone buy a game they dont have to play? They might as well buy a movie. they are like a 1/4th of the price. Anyway im used to nintendo throwing all its money into gimmicks that people buy then instantly regret. Im just waiting for that day when they make a sonic game that noone will buy.
In short, its a shit idea.
No I do not think that watching Miles Davis Play will make you a trumpet player, but from a lot of Jazz experiences and history watching and listening to jazz will make you a better player faster than doing it by yourself.
And a lot of the greats really did just that.
I think the DEMO mode refers to the GBA sp version of super mario bro. 3 where you could watch them beat a level and then try it yourself.
And a lot of the greats really did just that.
I think the DEMO mode refers to the GBA sp version of super mario bro. 3 where you could watch them beat a level and then try it yourself.
I've noticed an underlying notion in this thread that "Hardcore", videogame-wise, partially means complicated over-buttoned controls. Even though a couple of decades ago, there were barely more than two buttons, and games still managed to be a hell of a lot harder and (far more importantly) stimulating than they are today.
I do agree with the point of the article, this idea from Nintendo does defeat itself, specially because by giving the player the option to give up interactivity (the defining element of videogames as an artform) in order to watch the game being played by itself.
Although I've always enjoyed the demos playing when the games weren't started, speedruns, superplays and generally other people playing, the possibility of seeing the concept of the Full Motion Videos being given a further step does not particularly pleases me.
I don't think it's a great solution or even a solution at all, but still it's better to experiment with a potencial bad idea than not experimenting at all, if it means possibly arriving at some future and proper means of attracting non-gamers and ending this asinine Hardcore/Casual dichotomy.
On a final note, can no one think of a good thing that might come out of it? Something about machinimas sprung in my mind, but I wanna sleep so bad I'm almost zombiefied. Good night.
I do agree with the point of the article, this idea from Nintendo does defeat itself, specially because by giving the player the option to give up interactivity (the defining element of videogames as an artform) in order to watch the game being played by itself.
Although I've always enjoyed the demos playing when the games weren't started, speedruns, superplays and generally other people playing, the possibility of seeing the concept of the Full Motion Videos being given a further step does not particularly pleases me.
I don't think it's a great solution or even a solution at all, but still it's better to experiment with a potencial bad idea than not experimenting at all, if it means possibly arriving at some future and proper means of attracting non-gamers and ending this asinine Hardcore/Casual dichotomy.
On a final note, can no one think of a good thing that might come out of it? Something about machinimas sprung in my mind, but I wanna sleep so bad I'm almost zombiefied. Good night.
And the voice of reason resounds over the battlefield. Not like many will care. If its an optional feature, and wont harm them in any way, the hardcore gamers will still ***** about it.manicfoot said:
When I was younger, and just getting into gaming, I sucked at everything. Zelda, Mario, Sonic, you name it, I could not do it. I would sit and watch my friend play, slowly learning the how to properly partake of this new hobby. How is this any different from a demo mode that simply shows people the basics of how to proceed, without saving progress? They still have to do it themselves. I see no harm in providing some help for the little leaguers.
Regardless of what it does for the player, its opening a dodgy door for the developer. A bias of graphics over playabilty has long been gripe of the gaming community, and in using a mode where the only stimulation for the user comes from (what will now HAVE to be) eye candy visuals, Nintendo, and others (foolish enough to pay the patent I guess) will have a seemingly legitimate excuse to focus on graphical strengths.
Whats the line? In Soviet Russia, games play you? Guess doing smack ain't gonna affect your high scores anymore...
Whats the line? In Soviet Russia, games play you? Guess doing smack ain't gonna affect your high scores anymore...
While i struggle to see why an on-screen prompt or two and an easy mode wouldnt suffice i have to say that you shamus seem to have missed the point of nintendo's system -
Yes watching the computer play their game for a bit wont transform them into a gamer like the rest of us what it will do is open them up to ideas they havnt thought of before. -
The amount of times i could have done with something like this in my gaming infancy is staggering - like in prince of persia for PS2 (or argueably the original but i never actually completed that... or got close), i was absolutely fine upto a garden level somewhere in the middle when i hadnt quite figured out the intracies of jumping off ropes and i was stuck absolutely for ages, and ages and ages when i really shouldnt have been. All those failures at the rope jump didnt make me a better gamer, i had flown through the rest of the game, i was just missing that little petty solution.
Hell even recently i could have used it - valkyria chronicles, final boss, I knew i had to shoot the obivous weakspots but i didnt realise it was feasible to take down these metal targets with normal gunfire because they had no glowing plate like the tanks did to show they were weak - i spent ages trying to get my sodding USELESS second tank to hit its damn marks and it wouldnt, or would and gave me all of one turn to shoot said boss before the inevitable full-heal. I'm not a better gamer because i thought to use my sniper, it was just a silly confusion that should never have been a problem in the first place.
Consider that i've been gaming for years, for new gamers, especially adults these sort of things will crop up all the time, they're not stupid, so let them have their nudge in the right direction and let them use it as such.
... That said, for grinding through boring parts on 2nd playthroughs i'd love something like this.
Yes watching the computer play their game for a bit wont transform them into a gamer like the rest of us what it will do is open them up to ideas they havnt thought of before. -
The amount of times i could have done with something like this in my gaming infancy is staggering - like in prince of persia for PS2 (or argueably the original but i never actually completed that... or got close), i was absolutely fine upto a garden level somewhere in the middle when i hadnt quite figured out the intracies of jumping off ropes and i was stuck absolutely for ages, and ages and ages when i really shouldnt have been. All those failures at the rope jump didnt make me a better gamer, i had flown through the rest of the game, i was just missing that little petty solution.
Hell even recently i could have used it - valkyria chronicles, final boss, I knew i had to shoot the obivous weakspots but i didnt realise it was feasible to take down these metal targets with normal gunfire because they had no glowing plate like the tanks did to show they were weak - i spent ages trying to get my sodding USELESS second tank to hit its damn marks and it wouldnt, or would and gave me all of one turn to shoot said boss before the inevitable full-heal. I'm not a better gamer because i thought to use my sniper, it was just a silly confusion that should never have been a problem in the first place.
Consider that i've been gaming for years, for new gamers, especially adults these sort of things will crop up all the time, they're not stupid, so let them have their nudge in the right direction and let them use it as such.
... That said, for grinding through boring parts on 2nd playthroughs i'd love something like this.
As you say in your article one way to make games accessible to new players is to make failure less punishing. If that's so why don't they just drop the lives system for a checkpoint system in games like mario?
Last time I checked we were in an almost global recession and Nintendo was making enough money to make King Leopold II consider moving out of the colonial oppression business.Dottie said:
But are people still going on about this? These threads are starting to make the Escapist resemple the Escapist even less, now we start to resemble a Gamespot comments page, full of "OMG TEH NIN10DOH IZ ROONING GAMEZ 4 US
" But before I say 'Shame on you, Shamus for bringing this up again.' I have to agree. If you want a game to be easier for the casual crowd then scatter hint boxes in areas where puzzles may be particuarly hard, and make sure 'teh hardcor gamerz' know what they are so they don't actually trip and bang their head against one and have to complain about it ruining the entire gaming industry.
Yeah and anyone with a brain knows that people in a recession don't have a lot of cash to blow on video games,especially the casual gamer. So at the first sign of anything going wrong money wise they will stop buying video games. casual gamers likely either have other hobbies,or,aren't casual gamers. put one and one together,only "hardcore gamers" are loyal customers in the video game industry and Nintendo is totally ignoring them. This might be working for them right now but it might not in the long run. For some people buying Nintendo's product it could be a total fad. So plz next time think before posting tyAmrasCalmacil said:Last time I checked we were in an almost global recession and Nintendo was making enough money to make King Leopold II consider moving out of the colonial oppression business.Dottie said:
But are people still going on about this? These threads are starting to make the Escapist resemple the Escapist even less, now we start to resemble a Gamespot comments page, full of "OMG TEH NIN10DOH IZ ROONING GAMEZ 4 US
But before I say 'Shame on you, Shamus for bringing this up again.' I have to agree. If you want a game to be easier for the casual crowd then scatter hint boxes in areas where puzzles may be particuarly hard, and make sure 'teh hardcor gamerz' know what they are so they don't actually trip and bang their head against one and have to complain about it ruining the entire gaming industry.
But the people who will play the new Mario game aren't the same people who play CS. In CS, your going up against actual people and you are not meant to win. Winning in CS says that you have more skill than your opponent, even if no skill was involved. In the Mario game, you are eventually supposed to beat the game, so beating it on your own means that you have reached a certain level of skill. Your not king of the hill, your just on the same plateu as everyone else, and not being able to directly compete against each other means that there won't be any incentive to brag about beating the game unless you have done something that the demo mode won't do for you.orannis62 said:This is basically how I felt from the beginning, minus the "I've been gaming for 19 years" thing, that's longer than I've been aliveAceDiamond said:
But yeah, this whole notion of how the "casual" are apparently going to destroy the "hardcore" is just wearing so thin. Why does everything need to be Us Vs Them?That, however, ignores one of the problems pointed out. Look at the basketball analogy on the second page, and watch the video he links to there. The problem is that difficulty levels only make things easier for those who have some idea what they're doing, the "hardcore" (god I hate that term), if you will. If I can't figure out the timing for this jump, or figure out that bosses Achilles' Heel, it doesn't make a difference whether I have 3 lives or 5. This tutorial program might not be the correct response, but at least they're acknowledging that there is a problem.HobbesMkii said:
You can hack any game, people have hacked Peggle, but those aren't the same people that the Mario game is targeted at.
Exactly, I think the same thing. No one is going to buy a game and watch the entire thing, but I still consider this to be similar to when friends and relatives ask you to 'get past a bit' for them. Its exactly the same, and no one can attempt to tell me otherwise (if you do, explain why). And you must have known at least one person who would ask such a thing from you, or you might have been one of those people back in the day.NeutralDrow said:
I don't understand why people keep thinking that this is bad because it defeats the purpose of the game. At the end of the day they will not watch the entire game, their sense of accomplishment will grow when they play more and more of games without using the feature, and eventually they will stop using it altogether. I couldn't believe it when I heard someone (not naming names) say that when they use this feature, they will always use this feature. I don't know about you, but I stopped using walkthroughs and cheats an awful long time ago, but I did use them.
And also someone said something about achievements being pointless then. All that needs to be done is to make achievements available to someone who doesn't use the feature at all. Simple. If achievements really did reel in gamers, it can work for the non-gaming community also, if they eventually become interested. But either way people still need to understand that this doesn't apply to them, and it's optional. This isn't the death of gaming as we know it at all.
No no, if this feature exists, there won't be a drop in quality, it's the exact opposite. This is how you bring both gaming sides together, you have the difficulty of the game intact while having a feature for those who find it too hard. And alsotheultimateend said:
Ninja'd by a few days.AceDiamond said:
Yeah I agree.Towowo2 said:
This is seriously a big overreaction.
This isn't going to affect the "hardcore" audience in any way, as they'll play it through normally. And I don't think people are going to WATCH the entire game either. It will be used when they get stuck, but to say no one will ever play a game again because of this is really, a big overreaction.
I suppose some of us forgot that this is entirely optional too.
However, I do agree with the article writer that it may be more...efficient? Beneficial? Well, something...if we stuck to using better hint systems rather than having the game drive itself temporarily. That way, you're still forcing to player to actively input commands.
That's a good point. Though wouldn't that also be a problem? If you couldn't save after using it to help you out of a stuck situation, then what would you do? In some games, reloading back to your last save means you have to trek through a large amount of content again.Revenile said:
We still need to see how they implement this.
For all I know, they could simply make it so you watch how its done, and then the game reverts back to before you used the "demo mode", meaning you get to do the solution yourself.
Except that the only constant in the last 3-5 years of gaming is that the quality is tanking so I'd say unless our sun turns purple one should reasonably expect this new change to be used improperly.ChromeAlchemist said:
Thank you Shamus, thank you for stating what needs to be said.
As always.
Nintendo is sort of like Hannibal of Carthage. They both knew how to attain victory over their enemies, but they have no idea what to do with it. Nintendo has the largest market share in gaming than any other company in history, yet they aren't turning this new audience into gamers, they're turning them into passive non-gamers. They will get bored watching the game being played for them, that's whats been happening for years as they've looked over the shoulders of their gaming friends.
My dad has been a non-gamer for years, but then my mum bought him an Xbox 360, and at first it was an uphill struggle, but now he can kick my ass on halo 3 any day of the week, and boy does he love to rub it in my face, but he's bloody EARNED that. If my mum got him a Wii, he would still be mostly crap at games, I would still be spawn killing him over and over, and he would get no sense of enjoyment from it.
Eventually, these non-gamers Nintendo are breeding will get tired and walk away. Not only will this hurt Nintendo, but it will hurt any other companies trying to get these people to play their games, as the general attitude will be - "Well, I played games for a while, but it was boring, so I'll never play games ever again..."
They are a fragile new market, and need to be treated with more thought and care than this.
As always.
Nintendo is sort of like Hannibal of Carthage. They both knew how to attain victory over their enemies, but they have no idea what to do with it. Nintendo has the largest market share in gaming than any other company in history, yet they aren't turning this new audience into gamers, they're turning them into passive non-gamers. They will get bored watching the game being played for them, that's whats been happening for years as they've looked over the shoulders of their gaming friends.
My dad has been a non-gamer for years, but then my mum bought him an Xbox 360, and at first it was an uphill struggle, but now he can kick my ass on halo 3 any day of the week, and boy does he love to rub it in my face, but he's bloody EARNED that. If my mum got him a Wii, he would still be mostly crap at games, I would still be spawn killing him over and over, and he would get no sense of enjoyment from it.
Eventually, these non-gamers Nintendo are breeding will get tired and walk away. Not only will this hurt Nintendo, but it will hurt any other companies trying to get these people to play their games, as the general attitude will be - "Well, I played games for a while, but it was boring, so I'll never play games ever again..."
They are a fragile new market, and need to be treated with more thought and care than this.