No Backwards Compatibility - One of the many signs of industry greed?

[Zeh Don]

Backward compatibility is a stop-gap measure during a modern console's early years that is removed in later iterations of the hardware when the platform has a self-sustaining number of games.

See: Playstation 2, Gameboy Advance, Nintendo DS, Playstation 3, Xbox 360, Nintendo 3DS.

In the early months and years of a new console's life, there is obviously a small amount of games. Allowing a user to enjoy their older games on the new console can - and does - alleviate the pain of waiting for new releases to arrive.
It's the practice of "keeping them busy" until the console is actually worth purchasing for it's library of games.
Later in the console's life, no one cares about the previous generation's titles as by now the current generation has been established: they don't want you to play older games you've already bought, they want you to pay for new games that have just been released.

You can argue about these facts and dress them up anyway you so chose: backward compatibility is used to sweeten the deal of a new release console that has bugger all newly developed and worthwhile software. When it's no longer required, they remove the deal sweetener, and begin selling those same games back to you at a premium while changing nothing.

 

[manaman]

Kids...

Backwards compatibility was toyed around with in the earliest gaming systems and given up. It was given up until the PS2 came out. The PS1 chips where remarkable compatible with the PS2 hardware, it basically had a PS1 inside, thus backwards compatibility was in. The Wii works the same way with gamecube games as the PS2 did with PS1 games.

That's all you have to go on, no other consoles have been fully backwards compatible. The early PS3's where only backwards compatible because they had a PS2 board inside them. They eliminated those so they could sell the unit at a price that could compete with the other system.

The 360 only works with some games because the emulator they included only works with those games. Patches to the emulator was made for a large number of games before Microsoft finally scrapped the project.

So quit your bitching. I never whined that my Genesis didn't play Master System games, or that my N64 didn't play SNES or NES games.

Edit: I wanted to make a side note here, cartridges such as those still used in the DS are easier to work with, making handhelds backwards compatible has always been easy, and pretty much done since square one for Nintendo, with a few major revisions at times that dropped backwards compatibility.

 

[chaosyoshimage]

By the way, you guys know Nintendo is doing this again with the Wii right?

To be honest, my opinion depends on why they're doing it. I don't think it's necessary with the Wii, but I can kind of get why Sony did on PS3 since they were selling them at a loss at the time. The Xbox is backwards compatible, but the emulation has tons of issues, I don't think they did it on purpose though. Handhelds it's less of a big deal to me since they use a new media format at times. I didn't mind the DS not being able to play Game Boy and Game Boy Color games or the later models (And the 3DS) inability to play GBA titles (Although lack of Pokemon transfer could be annoying someday).

The fact is, I still have lots of old consoles, so I'm fine with this.

 

[Lunar Templar]

well they have to put something that dosen't suck on those systems, but yeah, its a total rip off, and a reason I've been giving thought to taking my PS3 to game stop

By the way, you guys know Nintendo is doing this again with the Wii right?

the wii is diffrent, in that the games on the virtual consul aren't even play able by plugging them into the system (cause you can't) so far as i know it still plays game cube games

 

[Bakuryukun]

No seriously, who else has noticed this crap? It's easy to spot. My 360 can't play most of the original xbox games excluding of course ones co-produced by microsoft. I heard sony isn't putting backwards compatibility into any of the new ps3s, but both companies ARE selling games from those systems as digital content so you'll have to buy them again. What a load of shit. It's extortion. Or at the very least they're intentionally gouging you. Why the fuck do we put up with this? Why are we letting them make it so we can't play our old games until we buy them again from some digital store? We need to send them a message. Backwards compatibility or no money for you!

And being a business does not excuse them from this shit. For fucks sake, at this point, the mafia is technically a business since they also do whatever they can to make money.

The solution is simple: Don't get rid of your old consoles and games.

I think it's pretty melodramatic to call it cooperate greed or extortion. You act like you have NO choice but to old buy games again, but really if you sold the game in the first place or otherwise don't have access to it, then you'd have to buy a copy again anyways to play it now wouldn't you?

 

[Still Life]

The only thing they're doing is selling new products at a reduced price though

No. Those who ask for BC generally do so because they want go on a nostalgia trip with games they already own. This is from a packaged goods perspective as physical products would go out of print once a new console hits the market.

Digital distribution has shown that money can still made off of older games.

I tend to seperate non-profit organizations from corporations. All the relevant companies in this discussion exist to turn a profit.

Your perspective is wholly irrelevant to the point I made.

No but unless it can be demonstrated to the tactical planning level that still selling BC-capable machines (perhaps at increased price to the consumer) is going to be profitable.

This is simplistic.

Consoles are developed at a loss. Expenses are recouped through other means and there is a valid argument that integrating BC into the next console generation could be an attractive selling point given how long this console cycle has stretched on for. Digital distribution and cloud gaming make selling older products viable options.

 

[valvoline]

Genesis didn't play Master System games.

that's not quite accurate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Base_Converter#Master_System_compatibility

granted, you had to buy the thing, but it did allow you to play SMS games on a Genesis. still have mine.

 

[targren]

To rephrase Istvan's question, in what way have they acted immorally? They never promised backwards compatibility, don't lie and say they have it, and the history of gaming hardware has not created a reasonable expectation worthy of condemning them for not including it.

I guess moral relativism comes into play here but, to my point of view, lying is immoral. They removed the hardware-based backward compatibility to cut costs, and replaced it with software-base (emulation). Then they removed that, citing as one of the reasons, that emulating for PS2 games was too taxing on the (remaining) hardware. Yet now, they sell emulated PS2 games on PSN. So apparently it's only taxing on the hardware when they're NOT trying to resell us the same games we've already bought.

 

[ACman]

This is the real reason that the PC is the home of the Gaming Master Race.

 

[Bobbity]

You do realize that Sony sells PS3s at a loss, right? They sell them for LESS than it costs to make them.

Don't doubt for a second that they wouldn't be doing that if they didn't believe it was the most profitable way to go.

It's a loss leader strategy; it has nothing to do with trying to be generous.

 

[Snotnarok]

I'm not sure where some are getting their info from that most systems aren't backward compatible, Atari's 7800 played 2600 games, Genesis with a converter could play Master System games (The Genesis did the work, the converter was a cartridge slot with a pause button), PS2 did PS games, PS3 originally did PS2 and PS. Neo Geo Pocket Color played Neo Geo Pocket games, Wii plays GCN games, Gameboy color played Gameboy games, Gameboy Advance played Game Boy Color and Gameboy games, DS played GBA games, 3DS plays DS games. That's a sizable list of systems that do infact play older games.

And don't give the excuse that companies can't do it, emulate the hardware, what do you think they do with the digital versions? Magic? It's emulation. And it's all well and good to let people who do not have these games anymore buy them and fund the developer while doing so, I'm not against the guys who made the game making money. That's great really but why not let players use the games they have already? Most old games used will cost more at this point than digital so there's no threat, especially when you're selling very rare games for cheap. (Xenogears on the PSN anyone? FFVII?)

Do I let companies charge me again? No I have my older systems and use that.

 

[DracoSuave]

Becareful what you ask for.

Backwards compatibility is good.... if it works well. PS2's BC was awesome. As an above poster mentioned, it's because it could run PS1 games in the native code, and so it had very little translation to do.

The thing is... ps3s and xbox 360s don't use the same architecture. They're not using a ps2 as a sound chip or an xbox as a video toaster or whatever. That means emulation.

The truth of emulation is this: It takes a LONG time to get to the point where it's a passible substitute. Both the XBOX 360 and BC PS3s have long lists of games they simply won't work with. Why? Emulation requires a LOT of debugging. Tricks and shortcuts used with the original processor might not work with the emulation because, well, it's not using a processor.

It's a simple fact that it's expensive to perform, and it isn't necessarily a great value for the consumer. It's good if you want to introduce a system to new customers with the old software... but for old customers, they already have the new system, and many new customers don't care about old games.

It just doesn't sell enough systems to justify the expense.

I guess moral relativism comes into play here but, to my point of view, lying is immoral. They removed the hardware-based backward compatibility to cut costs, and replaced it with software-base (emulation). Then they removed that, citing as one of the reasons, that emulating for PS2 games was too taxing on the (remaining) hardware. Yet now, they sell emulated PS2 games on PSN. So apparently it's only taxing on the hardware when they're NOT trying to resell us the same games we've already bought.

Fact: Three of the four games did not work for either backwards compatible ps3 set-ups.
Fact: Sony isn't selling those games, Atlus, Capcom, Konami, and NipponIchi are.
Fact: Blaming Sony for milking remakes when the names ATLUS, CAPCOM, KONAMI, and NIPPONICHI are mentioned is like you have no idea what those companies do.

 

[Garrett Richey]

Your argument makes very little sense. The digital stores aren't primarily targeted at people with physical copies of the games on older systems. people in this position can break out the old system and play their games. People that don't have the older system/games however have access to games they otherwise wouldn't. Yes it's to make money but it's not as bad as you make it out to be.

 

[manaman]

Genesis didn't play Master System games.

that's not quite accurate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Base_Converter#Master_System_compatibility

granted, you had to buy the thing, but it did allow you to play SMS games on a Genesis. still have mine.

Want to know something sad? I collect older systems. I happen to have one I bought new in a box off ebay. I spaced on it, but I didn't know until I read that page that the Genesis had the chips from the master system on board as well.

 

[Whyso]

I'm honestly just getting another ps2

 

[The Lugz]

Edit: You do realize that Sony sells PS3s at a loss, right? They sell them for LESS than it costs to make them.

i love the way everyone comes out with that, like sony are doing something nice
they do it to make money on selling more of the games, the same way garages sell cheap petrol and charge you through the nuts for everything in the store

it's marketing plain and simple, who on earth would pay £800+ for a console when the competitors are 2-300

frankly i think m$ are taking the pee this generation with the xbl subscription

The solution is simple: Don't get rid of your old consoles and games.

I think it's pretty melodramatic to call it cooperate greed or extortion. You act like you have NO choice but to old buy games again, but really if you sold the game in the first place or otherwise don't have access to it, then you'd have to buy a copy again anyways to have access now wouldn't you?

pretty-much this, i mean honestly people act like backwards compatibility is something that just exists from hardware setup to hardware setup, it simply doesn't, and would require significant resources to design a new faster model that supports all the old features

most people don't seem to realize what consoles are made of, the answer is a bunch of random custom built parts built by the lowest bidder that exist nowhere else so guaranteeing backwards compatibility is nearly impossible without literally designing it in

the real question is, would you rather pay an extra £100 on launch, or would you call that corporate greed as well..