No, it isn't OK.

[sageoftruth]

Well, actually, we are born racist.

How can anyone be born racist? We don't just pop out of our mothers and decide we hate on a group/race of people.

The way we're brought up, company we keep and general experiences would be the things to turn people racist.

It was part of a study. True, people aren't born hating a certian group of people, but they do have a natual tendency to form a group and then think less of those outside the group. It actually favors darwinism on the primitive level, since forming tight-knit communities was how our primitive ancestors survived. Of course, that was then and now this instinct of ours just hampers our ability to integrate into our diverse society.

 

[MentalBakura]

It's ok, as long as they keep their hateful views to their damn selves. Not much we can do about it really.

 

[bdcjacko]

It is better to say we are born we a prejudice to like our own kind, not born racist. There is a subtle difference in meaning.

 

[astrav1]

Well how about that, a HYPOCRITE on MY FORUMS? Now that sir is not OK. It's all right to have an opinion, some of them are just more dick-headed than others sadly.

 

[Nieroshai]

So, I'm pretty new here, hello everyone, I'm sure you've seen me around. Anyway, I was checking out OTD forum last night, and some guy said something like I don't like black people, am I right? I don't like ____________ group, I don't recall who it was. And he said that was a legitimate opinion to have, and that it's just a preference. Others agreed with him. And I've noticed people making excuses for this type of behavior.

Well, no. It isn't OK to racist, homophobic, sexist etc. It isn't OK to dislike black people for their race, it isn't OK to be against homosexuality, and it isn't OK to think women are lesser beings than men, think all other religious options are beneath your chosen belief, and we can go on from there. It is NOT OK. Yes, people are entitled to their opinions. That doesn't make them right, they're still wrong, but it's that persons' choice to be wrong. And remember, people don't choose to be black/gay/women etc. A lot of people don't really "choose" their religious beliefs either, they are indoctrinated into them. However, bigoted beliefs against these groups is most certainly a choice.

I get tired when people make defense of such actions. People especially do it when it comes to sexuality/gender related things. Like somehow religion/"ick" factor/society/whatever bullshit they can think of makes is reasonable to be a bigot against these things. Well, someone needs to say it loud and clear. It isn't. And thinking it's acceptable and giving it a pass makes you part of the problem, because these attitudes are what causes the actions against legal citizens. There is a reason why individuals such as this are viewed negatively. It's because they are negative people, and should be seen as such.

What do you all think? Am I right or wrong? Discuss.

you're wrong
Black people do it to white people just the same

Exhibit A ; Chris Rock
Exhibit B : Dave Chapelle
Exhibit C : Black rappers in general
Exhibit D : Gang violence/targeted gang violence

What are these examples supposed to be? Black people who go after white people, for being white? Or that black people are bad?

Why do you label individuals as "black people" and "white people" rather than people who are black/white/latin etc?

Because that would triple the length of any sentence we put it in. The term "black" isn't racist, it merely implies a characteristic. "Person of African Descent" is a LOOOOOOOOONG way of referring to someone. I am a white guy. I am not "a bearded man who is white." You can't escape labels. I am male, 2nd gen German, white, a geek, a hipster, (ironically) a Republican, a gamer, and a nondenominational Protestant. And those Exhibits of the above guy are of bias against whites, he was implying the hate swings both ways. Listen to a Chris Rock standup on youtube. Funny guy, but he sounds kinda racist.

 

[Peteron]

Right and wrong is merely an opinion created by common belief. I do not agree with this behavior, but who am I to say it is incorrect. There are no guidelines or rules in life, so technically calling it wrong is incorrect. You could say it isn't OK to you, but you cannot say it isn't OK as a whole.

 

[101flyboy]

Are you kidding? No-one has said anything about a person in general being bad because of __________. However, if a person does feel fear or disgust irrationally towards homosexual persons simply because of their homosexuality, they have a problem they need to address, and are in the wrong. It's not right to be homophobic, hence the term homophobia. Being gay isn't an emotion, which is the whole point. Homophobia is an emotion, making it irrational by definition. Rational thinking people don't decide things like their feelings towards gay persons simply on banal emotions. Like, really. SCARED and THREATENED over an individual, because of their sexuality? That's clearly not common sense, it's wrong. And that insecurity harms others, and harms the insecure person also. Which is why it does need to be addressed.

People don't choose to be gay/black/women. People do choose homophobia. You are entitled to choose to be homophobic, but expect rational minded people to call you out on it for exactly what it is.

I am not kidding. You seem to be pretty adamantly against people who merely say 'I don't care for the homosexual lifestyle (I know lifestyle implies choice-which I know it's not-but I can't think of a better word right now, so please don't bog us down in semantics). If that person does not do anything to hinder you or gay people in general-just merely makes that statement-why can't you just leave them be? Why do they HAVE to be converted? It's wrong to be afraid of the dark too, but I'm not going to harangue someone who is until they see the light (hurr, geddit?). I know being gay isn't in and of itself 'an emotion' but it does have emotional aspects to it. And I think you're dead wrong that people 'choose' homophobia. Do people choose to be afraid of the dark? I think not. Both are irrational fears though. Why isn't it enough that a homophobe knows his gut instinct isn't acceptable in today's society? As long as he's not perpetuating the discrimination, why can't you just stay out of his head?

People don't necessarily choose homophobia. It's both a choice and a non-choice. It is an irrational fear. Unlike being afraid of the dark, it actually affects your every day way of thinking, though, since homosexuals are a part of every day existence. With that said, homophobia is wrong, so why should anyone in their right minds just ALLOW something wrong to continue? When that wrong thing has caused so much damage to innocents? No. Just allowing something bad to continue is giving silent approval of it. And you're right, I'm not going to take kindly anyone who says something ridiculous as "I'm against the gay lifestyle." Like I said, one can say this, one can believe this. And you will be treated accordingly by a more enlightened society. If that homophobe realizes, as most do, that they will be shunned for their attitudes, that's one thing, but shouldn't every person have a chance at being a productive member of society instead of being thrown away like trash? And hell, WBC surely isn't a productive member of every day society, but they still do a lot of damage in every day society. It's not enough to ignore the problem, because that problem still exists, and it grows the longer you allow it to fester.

 

[Evil Alpaca]

It seems a lot of the posts in the thread are not distinguishing between freedom of expression and the freedom of action. Saying that you don't like gays, blacks, or religious people is still expressing a viewpoint. If you disagree then you have the freedom to argue against them. That is the essence of discourse. Saying that an opinion is wrong so it shouldn't be expressed is a dangerous idea because if you look back through history many of our current ideas of "common sense" were at one point or another, opinions that went against the majority. Voltaire said it best by "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

 

[feather240]

-snip-

-snip-

So you both discriminate bigots? Yay! hypocracy abound!

To put it bluntly: you are worng in saying that racists/sexists/homophobic aren't entitled to their opinion and that it is wrong. I'm sure you hate a lot of things people would consider stupid, archaic or just plain wrong as well. Stop trying to be some shining exemplar of paragon ideals because the most paragon ideal is to let people be who they choose to be. If that means they hate black, female lesbians, then that's their decision and I support their conviction 100% if they truly believe in that, so long as it's just words and not actions. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, regardless of what you think their opinion should be or if it's right or wrong.

There's a famous quote by Mr. Winston Churchill that really hits home in this sort of topic: "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Regardless of which side of the coin you look at, be it the bigots/sexists/homophobes or the racially different/opposite gender/homosexuals, they both have stood up for their beliefs and they have every right to do so and be correct in doing so. Regardless of what you want to believe, they are all right in what they say, think and feel and for you to say that's wrong is beyond the evil you claim to be trying to stamp out. You are the evil, my good sir/madame for trying to silence those around you by claiming their beliefs are incorrect.

I never said that a person isn't entitled to their beliefs. I said essentially that although you have a right to say something, that damn sure doesn't mean you are right, and I am required to accept your positions as OK when they aren't, that I have to respect bigotry, or agree with it and just sit and complacently watch someone spread lies and hatred. People are entitled to be wrong. You are free to choose wrong.

Let people be who they choose to be? Interesting. Should we let Neo-Nazi skinheads spread racist ideals and be actively racist? Should we just choose to allow pedophiles be? Where does that line end? That's dangerous. At some point there has to be a line, where one does not cross. A moral code. I am not evil whatsoever. I'm not silencing anyone. Bigoted beliefs are incorrect. I'm not going to say otherwise just to give someone the benefit of the doubt. If someone is doing something wrong, they need to be called out on that accordingly. It's really not hard logic to fathom. People can and have stood up for a lot of wrong things. That doesn't make it right whatsoever. Just because someone believes something or says they are right, doesn't mean they are right. Let's stop PC bullshit and call things for what they truly are.

For you to say I'm wrong in not supporting bigotry is about as..................unspeakable as it gets. You essentially support bigots and bigoted ideals. That is uncivilized and inhumane. There aren't two sides of the coin. Not all view points are valid. Bigotry is wrong. Common sense tells us this. If you don't have the common sense to comprehend this, then I'm sorry for you.

Well eventually certain people are going to be in power, bad people, they're going to say "Not all view points are valid. Bigotry is right. Common sense tells us this.", and the majority of the world will agree, but no one will be able to speak up for human rights and defend racial or sexual minorities because you had to treat people like animals for having a different opinion then yours.

This is a world without freedom of speech, welcome to hell on earth.

 

[bdcjacko]

I agree with Evil Alpaca there. Just cause Fred doesn't like black people for no really good reason doesn't give Tim the right to tell Fred he is wrong for causally stating his beliefs. But this forum isn't America, or any other country and the forum owners and moderators ultimately have the right to choose what is posted on their site.

 

[101flyboy]

Is it okay? Maybe not but it must certainly be allowed. Yes, people must be allowed to be racist, people must be allowed to have opinions that others think are wrong. It is and always should be allowed to be wrong.

People should definitely be allowed to formulate their own views, however, saying people should be "allowed to be wrong" is........50-50. They most certainly are entitled to their beliefs, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be pointed in the right direction also.

I see you don't care about my post

I'll let Hellsinger Angel's (#86 right up there) take the forefront for how I feel, but as far as mine goes-could you please tell me how someone who is fearful of homosexuals CHOOSES to be afraid? What fears do you have that you've chosen?

I answered you eventually, I just wanted to clear some of the shorter responses. Also I'm getting a bit tired so I'm probably going to finish the rest tomorrow.

Anyway, I never said people choose to be fearful. I said that, ultimately, homophobia is a choice because one can choose not to be homophobic. You can get over homophobia. Homophobia is a personality disorder, not a mental illness. So, that's an excuse, the "I was born this way" line. In fact, although I know 1000000% gay people are born gay, I don't think gay peeps should run to that in a self-defense way. I always say, obviously people do not choose their sexuality, but if they did, so the fuck what? Using the inborn line is a cop out, if used simply to justify yourself.

 

[101flyboy]

I'm tired peeps, I'll respond to the other responses directed at me tomorrow, but thanks for the discussion, been very interesting. Good night

 

[BlumiereBleck]

Are you mad brother? Who's to say what is or is not ok anyways? No one. Only what you believe. If you want to hate thats ok. You want to love thats ok.

 

[Vryyk]

So, I'm pretty new here, hello everyone, I'm sure you've seen me around. Anyway, I was checking out OTD forum last night, and some guy said something like I don't like black people, am I right? I don't like ____________ group, I don't recall who it was. And he said that was a legitimate opinion to have, and that it's just a preference. Others agreed with him. And I've noticed people making excuses for this type of behavior.

Well, no. It isn't OK to racist, homophobic, sexist etc. It isn't OK to dislike black people for their race, it isn't OK to be against homosexuality, and it isn't OK to think women are lesser beings than men, think all other religious options are beneath your chosen belief, and we can go on from there. It is NOT OK. Yes, people are entitled to their opinions. That doesn't make them right, they're still wrong, but it's that persons' choice to be wrong. And remember, people don't choose to be black/gay/women etc. A lot of people don't really "choose" their religious beliefs either, they are indoctrinated into them. However, bigoted beliefs against these groups is most certainly a choice.

I get tired when people make defense of such actions. People especially do it when it comes to sexuality/gender related things. Like somehow religion/"ick" factor/society/whatever bullshit they can think of makes is reasonable to be a bigot against these things. Well, someone needs to say it loud and clear. It isn't. And thinking it's acceptable and giving it a pass makes you part of the problem, because these attitudes are what causes the actions against legal citizens. There is a reason why individuals such as this are viewed negatively. It's because they are negative people, and should be seen as such.

What do you all think? Am I right or wrong? Discuss.

I'd say it's ok to think that way, but when you harass someone or otherwise act on that bias, then you have gone to far. Some people just won't like certain groups, right or wrong.

My roommate's step-dad for instance, really dislikes a lot of black people. His reason? He is an ex-marine who was stationed in Fallujah and Somalia. He saw a lot of friends die over his four tours of duty and it changed him. I don't personally agree with racism, but it would be pointless for me to wave my finger at him and say, "you are not allowed to be racist". I can however tell him to knock it the fuck off or otherwise dissuade him if he decided to accost a black man at the store.

 

[Pecoros7]

EDIT: Somehow buggered the quote. I'm just going to leave it out as I can't be bothered to fix it.

There is a distinction between "I don't care for the gay lifestyle" and "I am against the gay lifestyle" The former is a matter of preference, the latter is a statement of direct opposition.

Some people aren't comfortable around homosexuals. That's ok. If they respect them as people and let them go about their lives, I have no problem with it. If people try to stop them from being gay, prohibit them from partaking in society or try to make their lives harder because of their sexuality, then we have a problem. It is our behavior, not our preferences, that affect the world and those around us.

 

[philzibit]

However, bigoted beliefs against these groups is most certainly a choice.

No, not really. Depending on where you live, your upbringing, and your religion, it becomes less of a choice to the person and more of a fact. Not to say racism, sexism, ect is right, but to some people, that's what they were brought up to believe. Like the expression goes, "you can't teach an old dog new tricks."

Great example, black kid grows up in the ghetto; has people tell him all his life that white people are the cause of him being poor and in the ghetto. The result is him hating white people for no factual reason.

Also, opinions can't be wrong. No matter how misguided, illogical, and/or stupid they may be, a persons beliefs can't be wrong, because it's what they believe.

 

[VampiresDontSparkle]

It isn't OK to dislike black people for their race, it isn't OK to be against homosexuality, and it isn't OK to think women are lesser beings than men, think all other religious options are beneath your chosen belief, and we can go on from there..

"It isn't okay to be against homosexuality"

Now, that's you're opinion -- an opinion that a lot of people agree with, and also one that a lot of people disagree with. I don't know why you would try to impose your own ideas of morality onto other people. If, for example, you had said "in our country it is not okay to discriminate against homosexuals" that would be correct. However, to simply dislike the act of homosexuality is a personal thing and is perfectly okay. It's the same as disliking any other facet of someone's personality; like disliking those who drink too much, or those who smoke, or those who take drugs.

"think all other religious options are beneath your chosen belief"

This is a tricky one, because I don't know what you meant exactly. I'll continue, regardless.

Believing in a religion necessitates believing that all other religions are wrong. Otherwise you wouldn't believe that religion. Right? Believing, in, say, Christianity, necessarily means that you think Hinudism, Taoism, Islam, etc are all wrong. Even Buddhists, who the majority of the western world regard as "perfect", think that everyone else is wrong. So do atheists. So does everyone.

However, as I said, that mightn't have been your meaning at all. You might have been saying it's wrong to (again) discriminate against people of other religins. In which case you are correct.

I don't understand why people always put "disliking blacks" into the same category as "disliking homosexuality". The former means you dislike people you have never met on the basis of skin tone, even though they do everything the same as you do. The latter means disliking an act which is fundamentally different to your own lifestyle. There is a big difference between the two.

After all, the Western world as a whole intensely dislikes "arranged marriages" (as an example). It is an act which is abhorrent to them. Disliking them is fine, as long as you don't discriminate against people who have done them... the same as it is not okay to discriminate against homosexuals. See my point?

 

[kir4]

You don't like groups of people, because they don't like groups of people? That's mighty hypocritical.

And exactly who are you to say what's OK and what isn't? Their opinions of other races/sexes/religions/whatever don't affect you in any way.

Just let it go and move on.

It does affect him, it affects all of us in every way. How uncomfortable is it when you have an elderly person who doesn't like a specific race sit there and speak about how the mexicans are destroying America and things like that. Because we, as healthy minded people know not to be disrespectful even in the face of pure adversity and bigotry means that it should not exist. No one should even have to go through that type of situation, ever. Not being liked over something you have no control over is the most unfair thing in the world. Being pushed into slavery because of the color of your skin and no actions at all is another. Being told you are inferior simply for the religion that you hold is just as bad.

It is YOUR decision to be racist or sexist. That is fine. Sure it's wrong and you are the socially impotent. But that does NOT give you the right to express this to anyone else.

If a black man robs a children's hospital of video game consoles. It is his actions as a thief and a failure to society that judge him. Not your skin, not your religion, and not your sexuality.